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Author Topic: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table  (Read 97890 times)

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Gamester

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #320 on: March 27, 2013, 01:53:59 pm »
The entire front end should be working out of memory.  Game loads, maaaybe, but I'm thinking that disc speed isn't your issue here.   This is more of a "how fast can you process the paperwork" sort of thing and not "how fast can you read the paperwork".

Not sure I agree here CT.  Yes, maybe the base program code is always in memory, but it doesn't seem likely that every theme -- each usually consisting of video and backglass graphics -- and every table could possibly be resident in memory at all times.

Based on everything I've seen/heard over on the pin forums, SSDs can make a pretty substantial improvement in not only load/exit times for the tables, but also the performance when browsing tables.

Performance aside, I think an SSD is just smart in pincabs, as they are usually getting jolted around during play, by design.  Mechanical drives don't generally take to that kind of treatment well over time...  :)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 01:56:30 pm by Gamester »
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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #321 on: March 27, 2013, 02:08:19 pm »
Not sure I agree here CT.  Yes, maybe the base program code is always in memory, but it doesn't seem likely that every theme -- each usually consisting of video and backglass graphics -- and every table could possibly be resident in memory at all times.

No, not all of them, but there is no way it should be so slow on disc io that it's taking multiple seconds to load a backglass image. 


Quote
Based on everything I've seen/heard over on the pin forums, SSDs can make a pretty substantial improvement in not only load/exit times for the tables, but also the performance when browsing tables.

If so many people are saying it I'll believe it.  I don't think the issue is the machine, though.  Design logic here would say it's the application.  We're talking about a physical device local to a 64 bit bus that can push out over a hundred meg a second.  How big are these backglass images?


Quote
Performance aside, I think an SSD is just smart in pincabs, as they are usually getting jolted around during play, by design.  Mechanical drives don't generally take to that kind of treatment well over time...  :)

That's probably a point but I bet the contents/software will outgrow the drive before the drive dies. 

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #322 on: March 27, 2013, 03:08:49 pm »
If so many people are saying it I'll believe it.  I don't think the issue is the machine, though.  Design logic here would say it's the application.  We're talking about a physical device local to a 64 bit bus that can push out over a hundred meg a second.  How big are these backglass images?

It's not just backglass images. Each table usually also has an associated preview video which can range anywhere from 3-25MB in size.  A full compliment of tables can easily consist of a 2-3GB of videos and backglass images.

That being said, I think some of it really may just be a matter of faster hardware covering up code/design inefficiencies.  This is glaringly evident with the pinball emulators themselves.  There is no valid reason it should take the kind of horsepower that people are having to throw at these pin applications to get smooth game play.  But for those apps it really just boils down to antiquated engines that have had years of hacks, band-aids, scripts and add-ins tacked on to get all of the functionality that we have today.  The problem is it's all woefully inefficient, and the only easy way to overcome those issues is to simply throw more horsepower at the problem.

There are some new projects under way that aim to address these issues, but who knows how long it will take for those to come to fruition.

That's probably a point but I bet the contents/software will outgrow the drive before the drive dies.

Well, it's not like heat or some other factor that would cause gradual degradation.  All it takes is one jolt that's just a little too hard to do instantaneous (and often catastrophic) damage.  :) 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 03:18:34 pm by Gamester »
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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #323 on: March 27, 2013, 03:13:36 pm »
Well, it's not like heat or some other factor that would cause gradual degradation.  All it takes is one jolt that's just a little too hard to do instantaneous (and often catastrophic) damage.  :) 

I can vouch for this,  Take 1 wife hoovering with cables where they should not have been, 1 x 1TB Hdd,  1 x 2" Drop and you have 1 x very unhappy hubby.  I can laugh now but I lost sooooo much data that day.

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #324 on: March 27, 2013, 03:37:10 pm »

It's pretty hard to jolt one small device reasonably mounted inside a 400lb cabinet.  Put the drive on some sort of cushioning and you'll have to flip the cabinet over to for it to matter.

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #325 on: March 27, 2013, 03:43:49 pm »

It's pretty hard to jolt one small device reasonably mounted inside a 400lb cabinet.  Put the drive on some sort of cushioning and you'll have to flip the cabinet over to for it to matter.

OMG let the dude do his thing!  Where's your VPIN build?

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #326 on: March 27, 2013, 03:48:37 pm »
OMG let the dude do his thing!  Where's your VPIN build?


Nobody is criticizing griffindodd.  We've been doing this since the thread started.  Notice nobody has said "SSD isn't faster".  It is, clearly.  We're debating why it's faster and the software itself.  This is positive discussion. 

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #327 on: March 27, 2013, 06:28:04 pm »
Anyone else got any super clever names for something that constantly morphs?

Schizopinia -- From schizophrenia.

** Before anyone asks: Yes, I do know that schizophrenia is not the same as DID or MPD.

Transmogrifier -- From the root word transmogrify which means to change into a different shape or form, especially one that is fantastic or bizarre.

Alchemy -- Alchemy (2nd definition) A seemingly magical power or process of transmuting.

Some other variant of transfigure or transmute.   :dunno

Tim Conway: "In canis corpore transmuto"   :lol

If you want more of a Native American vibe, you could try Pin-walker (Skin-walker)


Scott

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #328 on: March 27, 2013, 06:32:02 pm »
Scott, I'm sure you have embedded some kind of brain-scanning probe in my ear via these forums with your wizardry and spells. My original concept for the cab was 'Addams Family: Schizophrenia' as I thought it was originally going to take a TAF clone look and transform between games.

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #329 on: March 27, 2013, 07:34:56 pm »
Careful . . . those implants are expensive!

Don't make us re-abduct you. 


Scott

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #330 on: March 27, 2013, 07:40:40 pm »

You can only call it a transmogrifier if you make it look like a cardboard box and have Calvin coming out of it.

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #331 on: March 27, 2013, 08:28:19 pm »
I really like Alchemy.  It's begging for a custom set of art and a custom table to go with it. 

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #332 on: March 28, 2013, 04:23:18 am »
You can only call it a transmogrifier if you make it look like a cardboard box and have Calvin coming out of it.
This.

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #333 on: March 28, 2013, 04:22:46 pm »
*Unless it's a clever pun, like Shoryukade.

 :cheers:
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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #334 on: April 01, 2013, 10:31:11 pm »
Everything has ground to a bit of a halt of late with family vacations and such. Last few bits still dribbling in.


Thanks Zeb for all the power and force feedback gear, can't wait to electrocute myself trying to wire this up


Magstik plus (thanks Jason) and a tilt Bob for modding into a three way switch


And last but not least some speedy solid state Corsair goodness
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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #335 on: April 02, 2013, 06:59:53 pm »
I really like Alchemy.  It's begging for a custom set of art and a custom table to go with it.

I like this name a lot and it does ring of pinball nostalgia a little, but it is the name of a DIY pinball machine that someone made, found that on the Googlez. Something along those lines though....

Sorcery
Occamy (an alloy imitating silver)
Voodoo
Incantation
Wizardry
Mutant
Shifter

(Pinball) Wizardry is a nice play on an old theme, what do you think? I also like Voodoo
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 07:04:36 pm by griffindodd »
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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #336 on: April 02, 2013, 09:07:23 pm »
As long as Wizardry doesn't get abbreviated into The Wiz:laugh2:



I really like Alchemy.  It's begging for a custom set of art and a custom table to go with it.

I like this name a lot and it does ring of pinball nostalgia a little, but it is the name of a DIY pinball machine that someone made, found that on the Googlez.
Of course, you could just throw TheRedOpusBXL a hat-tip and a link and steal the Alchemy name anyways.  >:D

I don't see any activity on it in the last 4 years.


Scott

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #337 on: April 02, 2013, 11:41:49 pm »
I like "Voodoo" if "Alchemy" is off the table.

What about "Pinball de los Muertos", give it a Day of the Dead theme based very loosely on the art deco style seen in Lucas Art's Grim Fandango.  Custom table be representative of the 4 year journey fallen Aztec warriors must take through the nine levels of the underworld.   

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #338 on: April 03, 2013, 09:48:47 am »

Voodoo should be reserved for Jimi Hendrix themes.

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #339 on: April 03, 2013, 10:22:56 am »
or simply just call it:

"The VooDoo, Incantation, Mutant - Shifting Wizard of Occamy"  :dizzy: LOL

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #340 on: April 03, 2013, 11:31:37 am »
or simply just call it:
"The VooDoo, Incantation, Mutant - Shifting Wizard of Occamy"  :dizzy: LOL

Lol, the V.I.M.S.W.O.
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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #341 on: April 03, 2013, 10:31:31 pm »

Voodoo should be reserved for Jimi Hendrix themes.

Somewhere a CoreyBee customer is having a horrible idea.....

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #342 on: April 04, 2013, 01:22:02 am »

Voodoo should be reserved for Jimi Hendrix themes.

Somewhere a CoreyBee customer is having a horrible idea.....

Ugh.....


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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #343 on: April 04, 2013, 12:06:16 pm »
Did you make them promise not to tell anyone who built that for them?   :laugh2:


AJ


Voodoo should be reserved for Jimi Hendrix themes.

Somewhere a CoreyBee customer is having a horrible idea.....

Ugh.....



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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #344 on: April 04, 2013, 06:01:34 pm »
Well Alchemy was too good not to use, well done Le Chuck PL1! As for that other guy's machine.....  :cheers:
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 06:32:37 pm by griffindodd »
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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #345 on: April 04, 2013, 06:04:08 pm »

Grr.  Stop changing the beginning of the thread title!  Makes it hard to follow if you don't thread subscribe.

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #346 on: April 04, 2013, 06:26:17 pm »
Well Alchemy was too good not to use, well done Le Chuck! As for that other guys machine.....  :cheers:

I'll take the assist, PL1 is Teh Bigu WINNAH!  What brand of pat on the back are we getting?!

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #347 on: April 04, 2013, 06:28:36 pm »
Oops yeah sorry Scott, man Le Chuck is always trying to take the credit for your ideas, who let that guy in here?
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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #348 on: April 04, 2013, 06:29:25 pm »
What brand of pat on the back are we getting?!

How do you like your tea bag?
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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #349 on: April 04, 2013, 06:57:58 pm »
What brand of pat on the back are we getting?!

How do you like your tea bag?

Harry and tattoo'd. Whaddya take me for, some kinda weirdo?

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Re: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #350 on: April 04, 2013, 07:22:42 pm »
Harry and tattoo'd.

I thought you and Harry broke up?
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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #351 on: April 04, 2013, 08:55:52 pm »
What brand of pat on the back are we getting?!

How do you like your tea bag?

I figure that if you tried, his response would be reminiscent of Daggett from the Angry Beavers.

 :laugh2:


Scott

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #352 on: April 21, 2013, 11:20:29 pm »
Another awesome build, how is this one coming along ?

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #353 on: April 21, 2013, 11:44:31 pm »
This is on hold while I try and clear all the less complex stuff out of the garage

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #354 on: April 22, 2013, 09:08:46 am »
Where do you live, I will help you move it  ;)

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #355 on: April 22, 2013, 09:26:59 am »
Lol by clear I mean finish the projects

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #356 on: April 22, 2013, 09:32:48 am »
Where do you live, I will help you move it  ;)

He is south of us, let's go! we'll def give him more room!  ;)

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #357 on: April 22, 2013, 09:40:21 am »
Lil yeah no problem I'm sure the dog will be happy to eat you

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Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #358 on: April 29, 2013, 05:57:46 pm »
Still on hold, but the other projects are starting to move out of the Garage, I hope to have Donkey Kong and Paperboy complete, fully operational and in the house by next weekend. Then I want to finish up Barrel of Kong before I return to this... assuming we don't move house first

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Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
« Reply #359 on: April 29, 2013, 08:23:14 pm »
Thanks Zeb for all the power and force feedback gear, can't wait to electrocute myself trying to wire this up.

I know my reply is late, but frankly that's one of the funniest thing I've ever read.  :laugh: