ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes

[sim_v]

Hi lilshawn,

Yes, I return regulary this connector. I use a single volume controle (2 wires) expanded to 3 (to connect on preampl). 
It's can't be a issue because ...
Volume connector is 12345 (first is on front/left on the connector)
1 : Left volume
2 : Left auto gain volume
3 : common
4 : Right auto gain volume
5 : Right volume

I've try both position without any difference.

And I never know where is LEFT on the 3 wires. With your message Purple is right ?

With my latest tests (previous page), I got a clean line output from preampl so the problem is on the amplifier card and/or transitors on heat sink.

[ami-man]

Let me start by giving everyone on here a big THANK YOU as I now have a running jukebox!  Now I just need to continue working so that it'll eventually run perfect.

Alan, thank you for your advice about my speakers that aren't working.  Using it, I was able to get my low frequency speaker working again (though it's not as loud as I was expecting).  However, my high frequency speaker is still not working and the wiring all looks good.  I performed an ohms test on it and it showed 0 ohms, so am I safe to assume that the speaker is bad?  Or is this test not valid with old speakers like this?

I'm also having a problem where the Jukebox only wants to play the B side of records.  I performed the adjustments as per my manual to the toggle shifter/plunger and this improved the problem so that it will now sometimes play the A side of records, but not always.  It seems like the plunger just doesn't always have enough power to pull the toggle link event though it moves easily by hand.  Is there a way to lubricate it?  Or is there something I should be replacing?  Any advice would be great.

Thanks again!

You can use a small battery to check if aspeaker is working, I usually use a 2.4 volt cell or a 1.2 cell (bassically anything I have on the bench) if you see and hear that the cone moves the speaker is alright.

Most of the Ami jukeboxes tend to have the bass across the two channels and the mid & high range speakers go on the left & right channels.

If the bass is low you may have lost a channel, you need to check that there is output from both sides of the amplifier.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[lilshawn]

Oops, my mistake. The connector orientation is correct in the photo. I just double checked on a jukebox in the shop. It should have the purple as shown on the picture NOT reversed as I commented.

[sim_v]

I suspect counterfeit transistors ( 2n6287G )

[Adjuvant]

Forget any oil, try and find out what is making the noise and then rectify the problem correctly.

Possible noises can be from a worn spragwheel (teeth worn through caused by uneven record loading) stem bushing rotted by someone oiling the mechanism. Sprag linkage not adjusted correctly  and the linkage is catching on the linkage. It does not effect the gripper bow as much on the R-84 mechanism upwards but on the 1100 & 1200 mechanism there was a plastic strip on the guide & belt assembly that if broken would allow the the gripper bow to drop, the result was that when the mechanism turned the gripper bow would clip all of the records.
There is a plastic piece on the R-84 mechanism but there is  metal behind it so this should not happen.

I pulled all the records out of the magazine and I still get the squeak when the motor is running.  I got the best look I could without pulling the turntable / magazine assembly out of the jukebox and I can't see that the spragwheel or gripper bow are catching on anything.  When I manually disengage the lock on the spragwheel and turn the magazine by hand, I don't seem to get the sound.  It's only when the motor is turning the magazine.  I'm going to try to pull the whole assembly out this weekend to get a closer look, but I wonder if it isn't the motor.  Perhaps the bearings are grimy?  Have you ever tried teflon lubricant on a motor (something like this: http://amzn.com/B00BCVXUR6 )?  I'll try to get a closer look at the stem brushing at that time as well. If that's rotten, what would be a reasonable remedy? Can just the stem brushing be replaced?

Thanks,
- A

[Nick909]

Hello!
I've just bought my first Jukebox - A TI-2. Trying to resurrect slowly! Steep learning curve to say the least.
Carousel rotates constantly in the 'on' position. I was able to get the keyboard to latch in a letter number selection, which triggered the search unit wipers to rotate endlessly - no pins are activated.
(If I manually depress any pins - the machine will then engage, select and play a record.)
Now, I've jumped in and tried to clean the S1 and S2 contacts with a piece of paper (folded over a few times, how I interpreted 'taper' - I worry i've put in something to thick to clean away in there...)
The result is now that none of the keys latch anymore - and the search unit no longer rotates the wipers, so have slipped backwards not forwards - oops.

My question is - does anyone have a picture, or could anyone describe how these flexible switch contacts are supposed to be positioned - as I'm worried I've bent something out of position.
Have looked in my manual and can't find anything (and am struggling with the schematics tbh.)
Any other pearls of wisdom to help me get this magestic beast back and singing greatfully received.

(I'm in Kent, UK btw.)

many thanks,
Nick.

[lilshawn]

check between the keypad and the selector unit. you might have a broken wire. This is especially common with units where the keypad is attached to the door that opens and closes. also check your selector contacts, you could have some corrosion on them. pull the power and hit them with a scotch-bright pad. avoid steel wool, as threads of metal can be pulled off and short out the mechanism.

[ami-man]

Hello Adjuvant,

Yes you can just replace the stem bushing. I have known that there can be wear/play on those motor gears, I swapped out a motor recently for a customer.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[ami-man]

Hello!
I've just bought my first Jukebox - A TI-2. Trying to resurrect slowly! Steep learning curve to say the least.
Carousel rotates constantly in the 'on' position. I was able to get the keyboard to latch in a letter number selection, which triggered the search unit wipers to rotate endlessly - no pins are activated.
(If I manually depress any pins - the machine will then engage, select and play a record.)
Now, I've jumped in and tried to clean the S1 and S2 contacts with a piece of paper (folded over a few times, how I interpreted 'taper' - I worry i've put in something to thick to clean away in there...)
The result is now that none of the keys latch anymore - and the search unit no longer rotates the wipers, so have slipped backwards not forwards - oops.

My question is - does anyone have a picture, or could anyone describe how these flexible switch contacts are supposed to be positioned - as I'm worried I've bent something out of position.
Have looked in my manual and can't find anything (and am struggling with the schematics tbh.)
Any other pearls of wisdom to help me get this magestic beast back and singing greatfully received.

(I'm in Kent, UK btw.)

many thanks,
Nick.

Hi Nick,

Welcome to the forum.

So what open relays have cleaned on the jukebox?
If you have have search the pages on the forum you will have seen that I have suggested many times in the past which relays to clean on the Search Unit (S1 & S2) and under the plastic cover on the Keyboard (R1 & R5) use of a taper is ideal, you hold the contact together by opening or closing the relay by hand and pull the taper between the contacts (this hones the contact surface) you need to check that the contacts have pressure on them when opening and closing.

If you need help with advice, spare parts, repairs or servicing please contact me direct.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood (ami-man)
Games Unlimited & Datex Systems
Units 4 & 5 Lion Park
New Street
Halfway
Sheffield
S20 3GH

0114 247 0242
alan-hood@datex.co.uk
 

[allz28]

Update:  I have fixed the problem where my jukebox would only play the B side of records.  I took the Toggle Shifter and Plunger apart and cleaned it really good and that fixed it. 

I also determined that my high frequency speaker is bad using the battery test.  So now my question is whether it is repairable (if so, how?) or where I can buy a replacement speaker.  I've performed some Internet searches with no luck. It's a Jensen Loudspeaker 4x6 elliptical, wide-dispersion cone type.  Manual says 1.47 ounce Alnico V magnet.  Frequency range of 400 cps to 15,000 cps. 

Thanks again!  We're making solid progress!

[Nick909]

Thanks for your replies.

So - I've been through and cleaned the switches in the seach unit, and up by the keyboard, and have cleaned and reseated the edge connectors on the search unit, and cleaned the tracks with a pencil rubber.
I can now get the keys to latch in (Have tested all letter/number combinations - all OK) - but the search unit just rotates round and round, no pins are pushed out - and it doesn't stop.
If I turn the control centre to 'OFF' the keyboard ejects the chosen letter/number combination - have seen both relays working.

Also - when the control centre is set to 'ON' the record magazine/carousel just rotates endlessly too...

(If I manually push a pin in a record is chosen and plays perfectly - so nearly there!!)

Any advice as to where I should investigate next?

Really appreciate your input - and hope it may be of use to anyone else with simliar problems.

All the best,
Nick.

[allz28]

Update:  I have fixed the problem where my jukebox would only play the B side of records.  I took the Toggle Shifter and Plunger apart and cleaned it really good and that fixed it. 

I also determined that my high frequency speaker is bad using the battery test.  So now my question is whether it is repairable (if so, how?) or where I can buy a replacement speaker.  I've performed some Internet searches with no luck. It's a Jensen Loudspeaker 4x6 elliptical, wide-dispersion cone type.  Manual says 1.47 ounce Alnico V magnet.  Frequency range of 400 cps to 15,000 cps. 

Thanks again!  We're making solid progress!

After talking with a buddy who knows a lot more about audio equipment than me, I'm thinking the capacitor is probably dried out and all I'll need to do is replace it.  I'll let you know how that goes.
 

[mubo101]

Hey everyone trying to get jukebox back in working condition, new to this.

I have a Bandstand jukebox and the only problem I am having is that the arm the needle is interfering with the record being put down on the tray. It seems like a timing issue where the needle arm is going out prematurely. How could I address this?

Thanks

[ami-man]

Hello Mumbo101,

Welcome to the forum, sorry you did not leave your name.

The 1966 Rowe Ami Bandstand is like all the other 1100 mechanisms you need to read the manual and start checking all the adjustments that relate to the gripper bow, transfer motor and tone arm cam adjustments.

It is worthwhile dropping the transfer motor to check 202-10807 Crank & Pin assembly, this is the small casting that has two pins (or pegs) on it that drive the transfer link and ultimately the segment gear and shaft assembly. The largest of the two pegs is riveted onto the casting, if this peg is loose in the casting instead of the operation being smooth and repetative it can be slightly off at times so matter how well you have checked all of the adjustments the timing in effect is now operating randomly.

Please let us know how you get on.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[Nick909]

Hi folks,

Just a quick update in case it helps anyone else out there.

Have got my TI-2 kind of up and running now.

Cleaned out S1 S2 contacts as per ami-man's advice, cleaned edge connectors on search board, tracks with eraser and lint free cloth and contact cleaned all the switches on the keyboard.
Removed the search unit to check the alignment of the relay armatures above the sprag wheel - and then found another relay around the back of it by the motor (I'd been looking at the other relay on the LHS of the mechanism under the tonearm before...).
This relay was kaput. Got a replacement from RS (4PDT Plug In Mount Non-Latching Relay, 24V dc Stock no.: 488-1831). Put it all back, and voila - we have rock n roll.

Just need to tweak the tonearm drop/pick up position and troubleshoot the lack of B side play (only plays the A selection - despite firing inner B ring pins on the search unit.)
But for now, I'm one happy camper.

Nick.

[ami-man]

Hi Nick,

You need to check out the Stop Plate Assembly if the search unit is pushing out the B side pins, also check out the Toggle Shift solenoid and cam switch 4.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[allz28]

Let me start by giving everyone on here a big THANK YOU as I now have a running jukebox!  Now I just need to continue working so that it'll eventually run perfect.

Alan, thank you for your advice about my speakers that aren't working.  Using it, I was able to get my low frequency speaker working again (though it's not as loud as I was expecting).  However, my high frequency speaker is still not working and the wiring all looks good.  I performed an ohms test on it and it showed 0 ohms, so am I safe to assume that the speaker is bad?  Or is this test not valid with old speakers like this?

Thanks again!

You can use a small battery to check if aspeaker is working, I usually use a 2.4 volt cell or a 1.2 cell (bassically anything I have on the bench) if you see and hear that the cone moves the speaker is alright.

Most of the Ami jukeboxes tend to have the bass across the two channels and the mid & high range speakers go on the left & right channels.

If the bass is low you may have lost a channel, you need to check that there is output from both sides of the amplifier.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Hi, Alan.  Replacing the capacitor on my high frequency speaker fixed it.  However, I have determined that you are likely right about me having a channel out on my amp.  I could not figure out or find information on how to properly test each channel, but the bass boost selector and treble selector only work on one side of my stereo control amp.  Plus sound quality is noticeably different from my right speaker to my left. 

Could this be caused by some bad tubes, or is this something I will likely need to send my amp off for repair?  I ask because I have found at least two bad tubes that cackle super bad when I tap on them.  Plus I'm hearing a low hum.  It will take some time before new ones arrive.

If you remember, you said a while ago that my amp has probably been modded since it did not have 12au7 tubes in two of its sockets, and i have since determined that you are probably right again.  If I place 12au7 tubes in their respective sockets, the tubes glow but the volume level and sound quality of the entire jukebox decreases.  Very weird.  Why do people modify these amps so that they don't use all of their original valves?

Thanks!  I'm learning a lot, but I'm still rather green at this. 

Adam

[ami-man]

Hi Adam,

Personally if I were you I would send the amplifier & pre-amplifier to a Rowe Ami specialist in your country.

You need a signal gererator and and a dual beam oscilloscope to test any amplifier.
More than likely it will not down to replacing valves, I would be looking at the larger wattage resistors on the valve bases for signs of breakdown and that the valve base connections are good.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[sim_v]

I suspect counterfeit transistors ( 2n6287G )

Transistors replaced, I retreive a good sound !


I re-cap the crossover card too.

The only thing is that Juke Box sound like mono... If I switch from STEREO to DUAL sound I got a true monophonic sound. If I set switch on preampl from Stereo to Mono I hear a thin difference but "stereo image", spatialisation is very very tight.... I will try with external speakers.

[sim_v]

The only thing is that Juke Box sound like mono... If I switch from STEREO to DUAL sound I got a true monophonic sound. If I set switch on preampl from Stereo to Mono I hear a thin difference but "stereo image", spatialisation is very very tight.... I will try with external speakers.

Solution found : bad wiring between the 2 subwoofers (Previous owner changed them) !
A lot of tries before found a good stereo sound where subwoofer works together (in phase opposite in my case).

[Nick909]

Hi Nick,

You need to check out the Stop Plate Assembly if the search unit is pushing out the B side pins, also check out the Toggle Shift solenoid and cam switch 4.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Hi Alan,

It was indeed a gummed up Toggle Shift solenoid - with an iffy spade connection.
Everything is behaving as it should, thank you!

Many thanks for your advice.

(Time now to go buy some new, well - old, singles...)

best,
Nick

[ami-man]

Hi Nick,

I am glad to hear you have sorted out the jukebox. It is now time to enjoy those records, Manfred Man's Joybringer is a very good test record for any sound system.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[BGun]

This Rowe Ami Venus with CD-100F had stopped playing tracks completely through, pausing and unpausing intermittently.

I contacted Mr. Wentworth of New Hampshire, and he was of a mind that the mech control has been modified. It is a 61086201 with attached Combo-4 rev.1.0 board. He told me he couldn't help me if it's a mech control issue.

As he recommended, I checked the power supply voltages, and they seem fine. I tried disconnecting the bill feeder with no result.

I am very interested in replacing the CD mechanism with an MP3 player from cdadapter.com, but I'm afraid that this won't fix the pausing problem.

This is in Minneapolis, MN. Any aid is greatly appreciated.

On such an active forum, one might expect at least one response. Is anyone able to help?

[lilshawn]

sorry Bgun, your post may have just become lost in the shuffle.

when you say "pausing and unpausing" is the CD skipping? like what you'd expect with a dirty or scratched disk? or is the music stopping and starting as if the amplifier suddenly stopped producing sound, but the CD continues to play?

if it's "skipping" you may have an issue with the read head itself and it may need to be replaced.

I may have some cd adapter mp3 units coming up for sale in the next while. I'm waiting for some units to come back to the shop where they will be stripped out.

Keep an eye on my post in the Buy/Sell/Trade

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,110942.msg1176257.html#msg1176257

for when that happens, as they often move fast.

[BGun]

sorry Bgun, your post may have just become lost in the shuffle.

when you say "pausing and unpausing" is the CD skipping? like what you'd expect with a dirty or scratched disk? or is the music stopping and starting as if the amplifier suddenly stopped producing sound, but the CD continues to play?

if it's "skipping" you may have an issue with the read head itself and it may need to be replaced.

I may have some cd adapter mp3 units coming up for sale in the next while. I'm waiting for some units to come back to the shop where they will be stripped out.

Keep an eye on my post in the Buy/Sell/Trade

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,110942.msg1176257.html#msg1176257

for when that happens, as they often move fast.

The CD disk stops spinning, then starts again, fitfully. I suspect a power supply problem, but there's no other indication, and no noticeable flickering in the lights or the readout panels.

Thanks for your reply.

[Nick909]

Hi Nick,

I am glad to hear you have sorted out the jukebox. It is now time to enjoy those records, Manfred Man's Joybringer is a very good test record for any sound system.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Hi Alan,

Hope you don't mind me picking your brains again!

I've got one (hopefully final!) little niggle I'm trying to iron out with this TI-2.

When the carousel has a long scan to reach the next record it seems to bounce or slip 1 past to the next selection (e.g. plays C2 instead of A2) - looks like a bit of inertia having picked up speed.
On shorter rotations (e.g. A2 has just been played, A3 is next up) it plays the correct selection.

I've checked the timing/alignment on the stop switch assembly (A1 and the 200 mark).
I've also tightened up the 2 screws on the blue nylon gear as per manual.

There seems to be a little 'play' in the mechanism - It's not rock solid - I can move the carousel slightly clockwise/anticlockwise by hand.

Is there anything else I can check/tighten - or is this one of those delightful 'features' - I guess from an old/worn mech...?

many thanks!
Nick.

[ami-man]

Hi Nick,

If the basket is in the A1 possition and the stop switch is in its 200 mark against the search unit frame step as per manual, then the mechanism is timed as such, you can tighten the mechanism sightly by slackening the sprag assembly machine screws to put more pressure on the sprag wheel.

This has to be undertaken with care because too much pressure on the sprag wheel will cause wear.

Have you checked that the search unit is pushing out the correct pins?
I usually drop the search unit for this operation.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[BackwardGirl]

Hello,
I have a 1959 Model J, which I have had for over 20 years. I am located in New Jersey in the US. it sounds great but over the past year has developed a problem where it will not select the correct record. Local repairman said it needed a pulse generator wiper blade. I purchased a new part from Victory Glass and repairman installed it. The box worked great for 1 week, then started choosing selections that were a few numbers or letters off. I had the repairman back and he told me he could not guarantee his work and complained about the lousy mechanism of this year's model.

Over the past few weeks it has gotten progressively worse; now it will only select a A1 through A4, no matter what letter/number you pick, which is the point it was at before the part was installed.

What else could be causing this issue? I am not very handy, but I do have learned to do simple fixes on the box over the years when things don't work right.

Right now, I don't have any other choice but to call this repairman back; there is no one else in my area who repairs jukeboxes. But at least if know what other parts might need to be replaced I can deal with him more intelligently.

[ami-man]

Hello BackwardGirl,

Sorry you did not give your name, welcome to the forum.

Sadly with a jukebox of this era regular service is required at least once or twice per year.

My advice would be to try and obtain another but refurbuished pulse generator from someone in the USA, sadly I am unsure of a service engineer that may be able to help you, it is certain however that you need someone who specalises in Rowe jukeboxes from this era.
By the way the same basic mechanism was used from 1956 to 1962.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[BackwardGirl]

Hello BackwardGirl,

Sorry you did not give your name, welcome to the forum.

Sadly with a jukebox of this era regular service is required at least once or twice per year.

My advice would be to try and obtain another but refurbuished pulse generator from someone in the USA, sadly I am unsure of a service engineer that may be able to help you, it is certain however that you need someone who specalises in Rowe jukeboxes from this era.
By the way the same basic mechanism was used from 1956 to 1962.

Hi Alan, I'm Cindy.

So you recommend replacing the entire pulse generator, not just a part? I'm wondering why the box would have worked fine after replacing the wiper blade, then reverted back to its past problems. A faulty pulse generator would account for that?

Can you recommend where I would obtain one of these?

Do you know of any repairmen in the East of the US who specialize  in Rowe/AMIs? My current repairman seems to have a dislike for them and is recommending I buy a Seeburg instead.

I understand that this box needs yearly service, but would hope that after spending hundreds of dollars on a service call it would work for more than 1 week!

Thanks for your help.

[ami-man]

Hi Cindy,

I have not done much work on these earlier Ami/Bal Ami jukeboxes but every one I have seen the Pulse Generators have been untidy and basically worn out.

They have a lot of open relays on them that have to be set up with the correct presure on the contacts that must be clean and not pitted, they need to be cleaned correctly i.e. not with sandpaper or files or you get the problem soon returning. likewise the wipers and the two boards need to be clean.

With regards to getting a replacement you could try www.jukeboxparts.com

I would pop on www.phonoland.com there are a few good engineers that post on that site.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[BGun]

sorry Bgun, your post may have just become lost in the shuffle.

when you say "pausing and unpausing" is the CD skipping? like what you'd expect with a dirty or scratched disk? or is the music stopping and starting as if the amplifier suddenly stopped producing sound, but the CD continues to play?

if it's "skipping" you may have an issue with the read head itself and it may need to be replaced.

I may have some cd adapter mp3 units coming up for sale in the next while. I'm waiting for some units to come back to the shop where they will be stripped out.

Keep an eye on my post in the Buy/Sell/Trade

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,110942.msg1176257.html#msg1176257

for when that happens, as they often move fast.

The CD disk stops spinning, then starts again, fitfully. I suspect a power supply problem, but there's no other indication, and no noticeable flickering in the lights or the readout panels.

Thanks for your reply.

For the sake of closure, I just want to add that my boss decided to upgrade to a different jukebox, and sell this one off.

[BlazenJsCD100]

Hey there!  I have a Rowe CD100 with a repeated error code 05-57 and flashing light on the mechanism control board error.  Would you please inform me what 05-57 is? I wouldn't mind any advice either.  Thanks soo much.

[lilshawn]

Hey there!  I have a Rowe CD100 with a repeated error code 05-57 and flashing light on the mechanism control board error.  Would you please inform me what 05-57 is? I wouldn't mind any advice either.  Thanks soo much.

"Index LED is always on"

the mechanism control thinks the optical indexing switch is defective. a wire is probably shorted or open, the switch is defective, or the input from the switch to the computer is blown.

check the wiring from the index switch to the computer.

clean the optical switch.

replace the switch

replace or repair the mechanism control board.

[sim_v]

Ami-Man give you a solution if CD basket turns.

But if you see no motion on CD basket, you have to check relay and motor.
I've got 05-50 & 05-51 which means switch error but the problem was on a gripped relay.

[paultakita]

Ami-man! I'm hoping you can help me out...

I found a Rowe MMCD-3 out by someones trash bin! I took it home and it works, but it makes some noise while transfering discs to and from the player. Please watch my video of the issue here -



Do you have any idea what causes this noise? If so where can I buy the part?

[lilshawn]

i'd be inclined to say it sounds like the drive motor. it may have lost it's wear bushing at the front of the motor housing causing the armature to slide up and wrack at the front of the motor housing. (or could be bent)

Take a look at the drive motor you'll see what I mean when it operates.

it's normal to make a little bit of sound, but that is crazy too much!

[paultakita]

Thanks for the answer lilshawn.

Any idea of a good place to get a new drive motor?

[paultakita]

Ive been doing more research and it seems i need a Part No. 40720802

I took a look as well, it looks like it is missing that wear bushing, because the armature is hitting the front of the motor housing.

I guess I cant complain about any repairs I have to make. After all it was free!

[alfonzotan]

Alan,

My wife and I are going to be moving a working AMI 1948 Model B from her parents' home to ours in a couple of months.  It's about a 12-hour drive.  I've been looking around for recommendations on how to safely transport this beast, but so far I haven't had any luck.  Care to pass on the do's and don't's?

Thanks...