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Author Topic: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes  (Read 65612 times)

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ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2013, 05:27:42 am »
No problem, Patrick.  Glad we can help.

About your CCC. I recall seeing that RAM problem before and I think that the Eprom may be getting close to malfunctioning. I want to say that the issue went away when I changed the Eprom and the battery, but not 100% sure. 

Alan, what do you think?

The battery is easy to change out; a 5 minute job. All you need is a 2032 battery and battery holder, soldering iron, solder sucker and new solder. I carry the latest v4.3 Eproms. It is a simple plug-in socket connection.

John

Hello Patrick & John,

It is worth changing the battery (3 volts) and then try again to clear the errors. You may have to try reloading the factory settings as per your manual. If this does not sort out the problem, you will need to send the CCC for repair.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man

roweti1

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2013, 05:55:48 am »
Thank You Alan, Im going to go out tonight and look for video Head cleaner. If I cant find it can I use Isopropyl Alcohol, in a spray bottle?

roweti1

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2013, 11:30:47 pm »
Alan,

I came home and cleaned the 2 relays on the top with paper like you told me. Then I tried picking one of the T selections and it worked, but then I tried the U and V selections and now they are having the same issue. I kept trying different selections on u and v then all the sudden the wiper started spinning and wouldn't stop. At this point I was beyond let down, I looked around and I played with the contacts by s2 then it picked a song normally and played it. But during the whole song I heard a humming, it turned out S2 wouldn't disengage. I had to turn the box off then wiggle the sprag back and for to free it up. Now its selecting songs again. What can I check to diagnose that problem also? Also I didn't want to try using Alcohol to clean the keys without checking with you first...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 04:44:42 pm by roweti1 »

maroguy1

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2013, 02:52:51 pm »
I got my cd pro player rebuilt and it was working great until I pulled p4 out of the ccc while it was running. It blew the 8 amp fuse on the ps board. I replaced the fuse and now all 3 lights are on and I have 8 volts at the connector on p4 but nuthing works the ccc and the display don't light up at all even though they have 8v. Any ideas?


ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2013, 04:21:44 am »
It sounds as if you have blown the regulator on the CCC.
Why did you pull this plug out whilst the power was on?

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
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maroguy1

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2013, 05:09:46 pm »
Ok I went and replaced vr1 on the ccc and no change.  The mechanism control keeps searching for cds it turns the carousel and picks them up then puts them rite back I am sure because of the player not working.  I pulled it out by mistake my bad.  Thanks.

ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2013, 04:49:53 am »
Are you getting any error messages?
Is there anybody you know that you can test your boards/laser head with?
I would try out your CCC on another machine/testbed, you would have to initialize the CD's however.

Who rebuilt the CDPRO? can you not send in your boards for testing?

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
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maroguy1

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2013, 01:32:50 pm »
No error messages because nothing comes up the ccc is completely dead no lights nothing same as the display.  jdemarti rebuilt it. I would rather not ship it I picked up a spare ccc on ebay so I am waiting for that but it is just odd that nothing works and all lights on the ps are on.

maroguy1

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2013, 02:42:22 pm »
Not sure what happened.  Took the ps out to test voltages again reinstalled it and everything fired up. 

jdemarti

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2013, 07:21:56 pm »
Glad to hear that it is working now.  It is possible that a connection was loose going from the PS to the CCC.  Taking everything out and reinstalling it may have fixed the connection problem.


jmkcc

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2013, 10:04:56 pm »
I picked up a Rowe MM5 and am having problems with the record changer wiring. My manual does not seem to have the correct wiring for the harness, relay and diodes. The schematic shows the w/y wire comin from pin 8 of the harness (which has no lead attached to the harness side of the plug) going to tab 3 of the middle solder tab where it connects to the w/y wire that goes to the slip wiper on the stop switch. The step by step circuit diagrams show the w/y wire connecting to diode 2 on tab 4. However the schematic shows a W wire from the relay and a W wire going to CS5 on tab 4 where diode2 starts.  I have wired in accordance to the schematic and the stop switch is not working. Seems like there is no way for it to complete a circuit as wired. So if anyone has an updated schematic or can provide a detailed description of the harness plug, relay, and diode set-up, I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to match the circuit process diagrams to the schematic but it's tough as wire colors are different between the two sections of the manuals. I've attached a pic of the schematic with a circle around the tab showing the two w/y wires connecting.

ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2013, 05:22:24 am »
Hello jmkcc,

Welcome to the forum.

I have looked at your drawings but they do not seem to line up.
Can you please repost with them correct so I can tell where everthing goes.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
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jmkcc

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2013, 11:50:18 am »
Hello jmkcc,

Welcome to the forum.

I have looked at your drawings but they do not seem to line up.
Can you please repost with them correct so I can tell where everthing goes.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Here's a scan from my other manual - apologies as it's a bit marked up. Thanks,

ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2013, 04:41:49 am »
Hello John,

Thanks for that, I will have a look at it and compare with mine and a mechanism of the period.
It will be a few days however.

Regards
Alan

jmkcc

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2013, 08:21:47 am »
Hello John,

Thanks for that, I will have a look at it and compare with mine and a mechanism of the period.
It will be a few days however.

Regards
Alan
Alan,

Thank, appreciate the effort. I'm wondering if it may just be the resistor should be connected to solder tab 3 and not 4.

EDIT: One last question. I could make out HC68 on three of the diodes which I think are equal to 1amp 100v. I could not make out the other diodes but would like to replace them as well. Can you conifrm what size diodes are used?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 06:47:48 pm by jmkcc »

Pinhead58

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2013, 03:13:56 pm »
Hi
I have a 1976 R-80 that I am trying to renovate. There is no sound but the vinyl is spinning. When the vinyl is playing if you listen very close to the vinyl you can here the music. I am trying to source an owners manual but any advice on what may be the problem would be appreciated. Does the unit have a volume switch?

As you can tell I have never done this before but would like to 'have a go' to see if I can fix it

Thanks
Dave
North West
UK

ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2013, 04:22:17 am »
Hello Dave,

I can supply you with an orginal manual for fror the Rowe Ami R-80.
Yes the jukebox has a volume control, it is a 10k log control dependant on the pre amp fitted it could be a single or dual control. The control usually is fitted on let down door flap on the rear of the jukebox, all the input/output connections are on this plate. Just turn the wing nut to gain access.

The orginal amplifier that would have been fitted is a 64 watt 601-02179 or 2179A (European export), you could have however have a MHG MK3, a HGM mono amp or any of the earlier or later Rowe Ami amplifiers fitted. It is all down to the history of the jukebox.

If you want to contact me direct (I am in the UK) we can sort out any problems you have.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood (ami-man)
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jmkcc

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2013, 01:09:27 pm »
Hello jmkcc,

Welcome to the forum.

I have looked at your drawings but they do not seem to line up.
Can you please repost with them correct so I can tell where everthing goes.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Here's a scan from my other manual - apologies as it's a bit marked up. Thanks,

Bumping to see if anyone has a proper schematic or picture of wiring for the MM5. Hoping to work on it this weekend. I've been trying to work back from the operating schematics in the manual, but it's a bit difficult as they only show partial views of the schematic based on the process.

Working from memory (I disassembled the wiring to install new relay socket) I think the major differences in wiring from my unit to this schematic are the orange wire from pin 4 on the harness went to relay pin 13 & 2 and then over to diode 4 and the resistor on the solder tab. The cap went from relay pin 3 to 14. A larger resistor went from relay 14 to diode 2 (no other wire betweenthe two) and there was no 22ohm resistor on the relay assembly. I tried wiring back as it was, but still had issues with the relay clicking rapidly and the stop switch not stopping until a few records after it hit the pin.

Thanks,

ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2013, 07:06:48 am »
Hello John,

With regards to the 1100 mechanism fitted.
Does yours have the single or double row of cam switches?
Is the socket/sockets on a plate under the cam switch plate? or is it on a plate on the base of the mechanism and has two molex sockets and the relay plate?

Let me know and I will check out the connections on the relay socket for you.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
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jmkcc

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2013, 07:54:07 am »
Hello John,

With regards to the 1100 mechanism fitted.
Does yours have the single or double row of cam switches?
Is the socket/sockets on a plate under the cam switch plate? or is it on a plate on the base of the mechanism and has two molex sockets and the relay plate?

Let me know and I will check out the connections on the relay socket for you.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Alan,

It has a single row of cam switches and the socket and relay are on a plate mounted under the cam switches.

Thanks, John

ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2013, 05:43:22 am »
Hello John,

Now we know why you have been having problems tying up the drawings to the mechanism.

On a MM-5 more than likely it will have been a double row of cam switches, so the mechanism may have changed if this was the case the molex plug would have been altered to accept the replacement mechanism.

The setup on a TI-1 would be more than likely the nearest to your situation.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
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jmkcc

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2013, 08:16:51 am »
Hello John,

Now we know why you have been having problems tying up the drawings to the mechanism.

On a MM-5 more than likely it will have been a double row of cam switches, so the mechanism may have changed if this was the case the molex plug would have been altered to accept the replacement mechanism.

The setup on a TI-1 would be more than likely the nearest to your situation.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Alan,

Thanks for this information. At least I am not crazy.

Does anyone have a schematic for the record changer for the TI-1 they can share?

Also, do you know what size diodes are used in the harness area of the MM-5 or TI-1? I could make out "hc 68" on three of the diodes which I beleive are 1 amp 100v. The reamining three diodes have red or blue print on them, but I can not make out the description.

Best regards,

jmkcc

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2013, 08:19:54 am »
 I tried to back into the wiring by following the operations section. As before the credit unit works, the search unit works, but the stop switch jumps over the pin. It is now not stopping at all and the magazine continues to rotate. The stop switch appears to work as I get a momentary spike in voltage at the negative end of diode 2 (yellow wire from sweeper ). DIode 2 feeds the W/V wires which go to pin 14 of the relay, the hub switch, and CS2. Pin 14 is connected to the capacitor which leads to pin 4. CS2 seems to work fine testing with ohmeter.

I'm guessing the problem lies in the wiring of the relay which is not allowing the magazine detent and coil to power down. Does anyone have a good picture of the relay wiring? I borrowed this picture from a different post which seems to be the same as how mine was wired. Unfortunately, I cannot see connections under the capacitor or the wires and connections on the solder tab with diode 2 and the resitors. I beleive from left to right the wires on this tab are w/y, w/v, b, not sure if there are any wires connedcted to the last tab which seems to the resitor from the relay, the positve end of diode 2, and maybe the resistor that leads to the w/v wire at solder tab 2. If anyone can clarify this or provide a detailed description of how the magazine detent/switch are triggerd that will help.

In addition, the original unit had different capacitor and resitor then the manual. I;ve replaced the three dioeds with white print with 1a 100v and the three blue with 3a 400volt. Not sure if that is right or not. I am using 100uf 50v cap which is shown in the manual vs 50uf 25v original. I would not expect that to make a difference, but maybe it does?

Any thoughts appreciated.

ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2013, 04:32:23 am »
Hello John,

I have just got back off of holiday so have only just seen your post.

The last picture is very different from the plate that I have taken off of a mechanism.
I will take a picture of it when I get home tonight and see if I can upload it to the forum.

If you want to buy this plate with the complete loom (less one of the micro switches), if you let me have your address and contact details I can post it over to you.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
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bonbeat

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2013, 09:19:04 pm »
Hi  We bought a used AMI Rowe Model Laserstar CD100-E Jukebox.  It worked fine.  Then I turned it off.  When I tried to power it up a few days later, it would not work.  I get a reading that says RAM error, correct ccc.  What is a Ram and a CCC?  Can I reset the machine?  Most of the lights still work but I noticed that one of the tube bulbs is not working.  Could this be related? I am really clueless.  Any advice?  Thanks, Bonnie

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2013, 06:03:39 am »
Hello Bonnie,

It could be that the battery in the CCC (Central Control Computer) Rowe Ami part number 40832201 (the last number is the revision number and it may be different).

The fluorescent tube not working is not the cause, this may need a new 110 volt starter or a new tube.

What country do you live in? If it is the USA then I would contact Bruce Wentworth from AB Leisure.
In Europe they by all means contact me for testing/repair of your boards and laser head.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
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alan-hood@datex.co.uk

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2013, 07:52:18 am »
Thank you for your response.  I am in the US.  Could you tell me where in the jukebox  the battery is located and if there is somewhere I can get a manual.  Is there a way to reset it?     Thank  you kindly, Bonnie

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2013, 09:32:15 pm »
100C 250 watt amp with blown right channel. Both fuses on preamp blown. (stock speakers, no addon's)

Found a broken leg on a cap on the crossover for the high end, replaced.

Replaced right side transistors and fuses. Checked transistors and diodes on preamp board. (last revision with LED's on board)

power on...

Sound is crackly on right side. Moved right side wires to other side. sounds fine. Swapped with known good crossover still crackly.

Swapped with known good amp. works fine 100%. (okay, speakers and crossover, output transformers, are all fine.)

Swapped preamp boards left to right side. Crackle stays on the right side. Swapped the equalizer/input board from the known good amp. Still there. something on the output side...

Thinking bad transistors...swapped again with new set, new insulators...still there.

swapped out the "heatsink diode board" and it's still crackly. (note: I have found a few of these with broken solder joints. often this causes the fuses/transistors to blow as soon as it's powered up)

It defies all logic.

These transistors I have been using are some I ordered a few months ago. I ordered a dozen of each of the transistors from mouser. they are "STmicroelectronics" branded 2SC6284/2SC6287 's. They aren't some cheapy ebay counterfeit deal...at least i don't think, they should be legit but who knows these days.  :dunno I did use a transistor set from this pack to repair another amp (In fact, the known good amp I used in these tests) a few months back and haven't had an issue with that amp.  :dunno

i'm going to try swapping the output transistor pairs left to right side tomorrow to test if left side becomes crackly. that will confirm if it's the transistors or not.

EDIT: bad cell phone spelling can't see to edit for nothing.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 12:02:23 am by lilshawn »

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #68 on: July 30, 2013, 01:14:36 pm »
update:

swapped the transistors around and it's moved to the left side now. so it's definitely the transistors.

I don't think they are counterfeit, but there is some small differences in the lettering between the originally blown ST transistors and the replacement ones i got from mouser.

for shits and giggles, i cut the tops off the original blown transistors and the suspect transistors. there is a small difference in the die construction itself (the "fingers" are slightly different) but nothing odd about it (not under sized or obviously different) The internal construction is the same. (die platform, solder technique, bond wires, all look the same. (no extra solastic in there or anything.) upon inspection, I don't notice anything suspect about them.

my B&K transistor checker tests the suspect transistors as good.

i noticed that these newer style preamp driver boards (40710105 revision C) don't have any adjustment on them, where the other known working amp has the older (40710104 revision J) board in it that has the pot to adjust them.

I'm wondering if a small electrical change to the transistor is enough to have these new boards be somewhat incompatible with them.

ami-man

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2013, 04:37:43 am »
Hello lilshaw,

I know its a daft question but the the transistors are in the correct sockets?
Also on the faulty side have you checked for shorts on the sockets or bias diodes under the heatsink?

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #70 on: July 31, 2013, 12:59:02 pm »
yeah, everything is good with them.

i pulled some "old" transistors (ST branded chips i had in the known good amp) and switched them for the "new" ones i had in this amp. no problem with crackling at all.

the known good amp (which now has a full complement of the "new" transistors now) operates fine, no crackling at all.

it seems this batch of "new" transistors is "incompatable" with the new style boards. Since they operate just fine with the older style boards.

I don't know what to think about it. maybe these transistors have a slightly different specification someplace that's throwing off
(whatever the new board does to adjust the bias voltage) the new board.

I'll post some pics of the transistors in question to the thread for prosperity.

would you have access to a schematic for this new board or maybe a theory of operation for this board. I might be able to figure out what is going on.

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2013, 09:41:30 am »
Hi ami-Man,

You may have an answer for me on this one. I have an ami-Rowe Storm WP100. I use a lot of burnt cd's - don;pt want to scratch or damage original. I also use a ripper for MP3's to WAV's using lowest rip speed 7x. Noticed some of my CD's skip at random points. Cd's can have 17-20 tracks. Most play ok. I have cleaned the CD Pro lens, cleaned the drop-down mechanism and CD holder itself. Any ideas?

Thanks

Ganners 62

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2013, 08:06:01 pm »
Hi AMI-Man,
I'm a newbie with a CD100 Serial 8267 I have been unable to find an alpha suffix anywhere. Overall it works good one of the problems I am having is that when I make a selection it plays a previous played selection. I would like to play whole albums and singles and shut off and other play options. how can I achieve this. Also do you know what the material is that is on the side of the cabinet and where I can get it? It looks like a faux leather material. Since this unit spent most of it's life in night clubs there is a lot of second hand smoke on all surfaces of the cabinet. Any suggestions about what is best to use on the Plastic surfaces to clean them up?
Thanks,
Bob
Franklin, IN
USA 

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2013, 04:56:01 am »
Hi Bob,

Welcome to the forum.

Do you own or are you purchasing a manual? If you do have one please read it all especially section 2 which is the programming section and in particular page 2-11, The Service Mode Map.

With regards to cleaning the cabinet, when we operated jukeboxes we always used a hard surface cleaner to remove the grime.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

lilshawn

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2013, 10:16:29 am »
Formula 409 will melt that nicotine right off there.

87bob

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2013, 09:14:31 pm »
Hi AMI-man and lil-Shawn thanks guys for your responses. Today I bought a Venus that I'll pickup this weekend. I like the CD players I have in them but I have  3-500 CD's I would like to go to a hard drive or iPod. The issue I have how do I display the selection numbers. My wife says she likes to use the built in buttons enter the cd or song number and I do not want permanently alter the looks of the juke box. I'd like to find away to display the CD covers and playlist on a screen that can be turn like the page on a iPad or kindle. Any ideas?

lilshawn

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2013, 11:03:11 pm »
http://www.cdadapter.com/cd100mp.htm

it's cost may be prohibitive to you though.

Corey

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2014, 07:20:38 pm »
Gosh, I hope it's okay to post a new question in this old thread.  I've been trying hard to find a replacement for a Rowe R-3760A amp with no luck.  One channel is dead, and the other starts crackling after a few minutes on play.  The amp is in a 1973 Rowe MM5 jukebox (Tiffany Model- ugliest jukebox in the world, but I love it anyway.) 

Do you know anyone who sells or rebuilds these?

lilshawn

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2014, 07:44:06 pm »
it really comes down to 2 things... the output transistors (dead channel) and the capacitors (which are now.....40 years old now?)

it's going to need all the caps replaced in it for starters. those caps are going to be DRY as all hell. it's no wonder the channel crackles... the bias is going to be all over the place. they are 40 years old...it's time.

the dead channel is likely just some speaker wire got shorted at one time and killed it. the output transistors are going to be shorted on that channel and need to be replaced.

Corey

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Re: ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes
« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2014, 08:43:00 pm »
Thank you for your reply! I'm truly grateful.  I just discovered after removing the amp to take pictures that one of the fuses was blown.  I replaced that and the dead channel came back to life.  I will bring it to an amp guy to have the caps replaced.  Does it make sense that it would sound good until it gets warm, then start sounding bad?

  
 

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