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Playstation 2 controller (thumbsticks)
Dave_K.:
Howard, you make an excellent point, but I wouldn't want to keep that from people trying to come up with new innovative ideas.
I've been thinking about this problem for a long time, and have a few ideas I've been telling people about.
One suggestion is mounting one thumb stick into the control panel for your right hand.
u_rebelscum:
--- Quote ---If you think about it, on a real ps2 joystick you can't use the directional pad and the left analog stick at the same time anyway (unless you have 2 left thumbs)
--- End quote ---
Same with can't use both the right analog stick & the four top buttons at the same time (unless you have 2 right thumbs).
How's this for a cp that can do everything a standard ps2 controller can except the analog buttons:
Two analog joysticks with two trigger buttons each and eight buttons (four are the standard square, triangle, etc buttons, four are copies of the trigger buttons) inbetween the joysticks. Include the toggle switch Dave_K mentioned that switches the left joystick to and from d-pad to analog thumbpad, but the toggle leaves the two trigger buttons in-line.
This means two of the buttons (the L1 & L2) on the cp aren't needed, but there so you don't have to use the trigger buttons on the left joystick for every game. So, if you use the trigger buttons on the left joystick, that leaves 6 buttons on the cp for your right hand, and try telling any SFII player that six buttons is too much.
--- Quote ---YOU CANNOT BUILD AN ACCEPTABLE ARCADE CONTROL PANEL FOR A CONSOLE SYSTEM THAT USES MORE THAN 6 BUTTONS
--- End quote ---
Howard, I think the limit is higher, and more game specific. With a gamepad, the right thumb can only press ~2 buttons at a time, while the right index finger and left index finger are best at pressing only one (trigger) button at a time. That's four buttons, and I have four fingers and a thumb on my right hand. Maybe if you said arcade control panels don't work very well for games that use more than 5 or 6 buttons at the same time.
--- Quote ---Now explain to me how your going to exectue a move that requires you to press l1+l2+r1+r2+up+x+o aaaall at the same time on a arcade control panel.
--- End quote ---
Up is not a button, it's the joystick in the left hand. And how do you press l1+l2 at the same time on a PS controller? Are you supposed to use the middle finger for l2? (doesn't work for me.) BTW, what game requires six buttons pressed at the same time?
Anyway, how to press l1+l2+r1+r2+x+o:
eight buttons laid out like this:
t l1 r1
s o l2 r2
x
Pinky finger can press r1, r2, or lay across both, same with ring finger and l1 + l2. That leaves four buttons to the index and middle fingers. With above layout, the buttons are curved, like people's fingers. So index presses x, middle presses o, ring presses both l1 & l2, and pinky presses both r1 & r2.
If the l1 & l2 buttons are moved off the cp and onto trigger buttons on the left joystick, pressing the above combo is even easier.
Of course, other button combos would be hard to do with above layout (example: square + triangle + x + l2 + r1 + r2) unless you use your thumb, too. But I find such a combo hard on a controller also.
BTW: How do you press r1 + x + triangle at the same time on a pad? It would be pretty easy with the above button layout, but I can't do it on a standard PS controller without pressing square or O also, or not pressing x or triangle. (Same problem with Dreamcast controller for me, too.) Fat thumb syndrome?
Bob Sanders:
i just thought of something (useless for all but fps games) what about pushing in the button
Howard_Casto:
Rebel while I understand your point I don't think your getting mine. Look at the layout you suggested... it's about 6 1/2- 7 buttons wide! The trigger buttons are generally auxillary buttons meaning that you press them and one of the main buttons at the same time. That's a huge hand stretch in certian cases. I'm not saying you can't do it I"m just saying it's increadibly akward that no one in their right mind would prefer it over a true pad.
In alot of games you use both thumbsticks and the trigger buttons. Explain to me how you are supposed to control two sticks and hit buttons on an arcade setup. Now you could get those sticks with buttons on the top, but then you only have one button each, or you could get two analog sticks, but then it's not really an arcade setup anymore.
Even taking all of that into account lets see what games we have left.... We have platformers, which are generally also available on the pc. We have fighters which are emulated unless they are very very new and many of them are getting pc ports too. We have racing games, which need a steering wheel, so their not applicable. And finally we have fps which require analog controls to really be played properly and we've already discussed the fact that it would be very hard to hack a ps2 controller to use the analog controls.
Long story short, the psx2 is a 3d gaming system. 3d games in general need analog controls, which we can't get through an arcade panel easily. Even if you could the panel would be so cluttered and bulky that it won't even look like an arcade panel. Also I stand by my original point that it would be very akward for gameplay.
I think trying new ideas is great but this one has already been tried several times and the creator generally breaks apart what he's built and converts it into a mame cab after he realizes his error. If you think you can do it, then great, but you've been warned.
Jakobud:
Hmmm.... I have a vision here.... :)
Here click on this link:
http://www.dreamwater.net/mame/ps2_proto.html
( Geez how in the HECK do I get images to show up in these posts with html code?????? yes I click the disable smileys thing )
Definately not my best PS work, but I was in a hurry :)
The only 'buttons' that would not exist in this sort of hacked setup would be L3 and R3, which represent pressing the left and right analog sticks in, just like a
button, which more games use that you might think.
Oh yeah, I forgot about select and start to go somewhere, but their position is not as important as the other buttons (in most cases).
What do you guys think?
By the way, I work for Sony Computer Entertainment of America...maybe I should pass this idea to someone :)
jakobud