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Idea for a Multi Williams Plus panel.
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1500points:
Few things, essay in nature-

The reason defender or Robotron control panel feels perfect is because Jarvis was an avid game player, they got it right through intuitive observation and had decades of insights from the pinball side of things about meeting the needs of the coin-op consumer (pinball pioneer Steve Kordek was a “family” friend and mentor to both).  DeMar states they had to make Robotron harder after switching from Atari 2600 sticks to real wico leafs. Defender layout was a desire to accommodate Asteroids players who were a top coin-op customer at the time of design. The added height of a robo stick was a product of not wanting people to scrape knuckles.
If you don’t know of Jarvis this is a good start- http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-17/entertainment/ct-ent-eugene-jarvis-20121217_1_arcade-game-video-game-game-designers

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is the brilliance of putting robo sticks 10 inches apart, it just feels right for the geometry of most people’s shoulder width.  Put in a bunch of time on a real cab and you’ll see.

Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned is the importance of screen size.  19 inch 4-3 LCD does better for Robotron due to visual discrimination and reaction times.  A 17 inch 4-3 LCD does better for defender due to peripheral vision and radar observation.

another thing that hasn't been mentioned is angle of panel surface to avoid wrist discomfort for the average height player. I personally find a Joust cab to have the perfect screen angle/position and panel angle.

Zippyy’s can play Robotron as well as anything if you take restrictor completely off. You’ll grind actuator a bit, but as you get better you won’t need to overcompensate and grind the stick against circle.  But once again, a learning player will do better on real wico’s a seasoned player won’t care.  I personally got NOS 3.5inch wico leaf sticks and routed into the height I liked, but I like the silence and the ability to “feel” the blade pressure which becomes hyper-acute when your brain goes into the Zone/trance state. It’s bizarre feeling that I personally find satisfying- tactile oddity maybe.

Per a big debate on klov, the IL eurostick is supposed to be the king but I’ve never actually touched one, assume it has light micros and circular restriction (which was pointed out as a key element above).  the sticks I had looked the same style and colors. I gave them away when I realized I preferred the balltop over bats, once I owned a real robo cab and put in a lot of time on it.   http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/58-il-eurostick-joystick

one last thing!  Joust extreme master, Lon McDonald, broke the mame marathon WR on my cab (homemade joust style tabletop cab with extension for upright) the buttons were using rolley leaf conversions and the wico had no horizontal restriction, and he was playing the tougher mame 106 version of joust. he is insanely talented. http://www.robotron2084guidebook.com/home/starworlds/joust30thbirthday/
jimmer:

--- Quote from: 1500points on February 08, 2013, 08:47:43 am --- I personally got NOS 3.5inch wico leaf sticks and...

--- End quote ---

New old stock?   when did they stop being made?


How is the micro-switch tweaking coming on? Got any measurements from the tweaked joystick?  ( I know you were mainly asking about silencing, but I'm sure you are interested in the other factors)
1500points:
i'm just curious about the microswitch mechanics now that one is open for viewing. i'll probably mangle 1 or 2 to experiment with the physics. gotta get in the garage storage and pull out a few other styles of micros and mangle them open to play.

wico's are long gone. on klov you can still get em from hobby folks who deal in them. the wico micros are real common and some like them, i built a berzerk for someone once using one. didn't seem anything special.

i have some wico 360 opticals that have a spring. the opticals are cool, the spring is horrible. i heard putting that optical plate on a rubber grommet wico is sweet, though. never tried it.

ebay has NOS wicos frequently but you'll pay well for them. probably 50 a stick.
jimmer:

--- Quote from: 1500points on February 08, 2013, 09:27:06 am ---i'm just curious about the microswitch mechanics now that one is open for viewing. i'll probably mangle 1 or 2 to experiment with the physics. gotta get in the garage storage and pull out a few other styles of micros and mangle them open to play.

--- End quote ---

I just modded a switch, mine only has one contact so I bent that and then drilled a 2.5mm hole and inserted a M3 screw through the top to adjust the other side.

Nub travel and noise greatly reduced, so it works. But I also have this slightly uneasy feeling because I've basically undone the whole point of this switch and now have a very poor kinematic system. The nub travel is greater than the contact travel  :lol
Xiaou2:

--- Quote ---Zero slop about centre is obviously ideal. My zippy short stick has about +/-1mm free play (measured at the top of the ball).
--- End quote ---

 Thats more of an issue if your talking about analog sticks.  One thing you dont want, is for a stick or button to be so accurate, as to accidentally go off from tiny amount of touch pressure.  Thats why a leaf button doesnt have the activation point until just above the middle of travel.  Once you get to that spot however, you can easily keep it there with ease. (which really cant be done well with even the craziest modded micros)

 However, the Feel of a perfectly centered stick is much nicer on the brain.  Which is one reason why the grommets really shine.  They dont feel loosey goosey.


--- Quote ---If I was designing a leaf joystick (or button) it would have screw adjustment, not rely on pliers for adjustment.
--- End quote ---

 But if you did that, you would create a hard stop. A collision point.  And that would make them feel and respond much worse.   The leaf buttons are designed in a way, that they almost feel bottomless.  Typical presses dont seem to bottom them out.. its only if you consciously try really hard to do so.. that you can make them bottom out.  As a result, your games feel much more relaxed and buttery smooth.   As 1500pts  mentioned, he had a certain feeling about them... but he didnt know what or why.  Well, thats one of the biggest reasons.  Zero clashing / bottoming out.

 The leaf sticks are pretty much the same.  The leafs engage fairly quickly, and so no need to go to the utmost edges.  But if you do, the grommet + the leafs springs, slow the outside edge speed and absorb much of the impact forces.  Its more gushy... like the difference between slamming your fist into a soccer ball, rather than a hardwood floor.

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