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Simple removable control panels

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Xiaou2:


--- Quote ---No, not really.  Slides in pretty easily, and the connectors are trapezoid-shaped so you can't plug one end in upside down or something.
--- End quote ---

 I meant, that if you wanted to simply slide your control panel into place and have it work... rather than having to grab cables & connectors,  ... and plug & unplug them.

 A DSub / printer style connector is strong, but the wires attached are usually thin.  If the cable is bent and moved around often... internal wires can break...  and wires can detach from the pins.  This of course depends on how you set things up.
One static end which does not move... and one cable end... for example, would limit wear / damages to only the flexible cable
end.

 Still, you wouldnt be able to drop a control panel in place, or slide it in place, using a Dsub / DB connector... UNLESS, you were using a highly accurate channel guide system.  Even then, its a stretch, as the connectors have almost no forgiveness. (no play..  so need greater than MM accuracty alignments) 

  A large edge connector however, has a reduced accuracy requirement, due to larger connections, and a connector that has some initial play, which funnels the cartridge/board into place, getting tighter as it enters.

 The connections are huge trace lines, on the 'moving' end, which helps keep wires from popping off, even after much abuse.


 Theres a reason why Game Consoles used this style of connector.   Imagine trying to pop in a Dsub ended cartridge repeatedly for your old game console.    Dsubs connectors are great for static application... such as locking them in place.
But for high rep use... they are not great for ease of connectivity.   

 If your talking Monitor Dsubs... they often need to be screwed down to prevent them popping off over time.  Sometimes they are so tight, that its a real pain to try to get them together, or yank them apart.  Usually happens when the the thin metal outer shell has been dented from a simple 2ft drop to the floor.

 Printer / serial  based connectors are not much better.



--- Quote ---I don't think most people would need that many connections for their cp, and a JAMMA connector is pretty bulky.  This the next part is clever though:
--- End quote ---

 I dont think it matters how big the connector, nor the amount of connections.  Cost and ease of use, is usually the main factors for consideration.   You can always remove wires unused with ease.   The connectors themselves, will be hidden, (possibly even sunk-in... if you really want to get fancy)  so it does not even matter what they look like.


spystyle:

Thanks for all the excellent information fellas :)

rCadeGaming:


--- Quote from: PL1 on December 19, 2012, 12:48:17 am ---
--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on December 18, 2012, 10:43:55 pm ---I wouldn't really recommend this.  Crimping those tiny connections and inserting them all in the housing can be a huge pain in the butt.  It's also not nearly as reliable as a single piece solid connector with solder cups.

--- End quote ---

Only true if you are using the wrong tool -- like vise grips -- to do the crimping.
--- End quote ---

Yes, it will work great if done perfectly, but using solder cups is a bit more fool proof.  Crimping those small connections can be a chore, and the tiny little tabs that keep the crimp-on pins from backing out of the housings can get finicky.

I have experience with both methods and I'm just saying I'd recommend solder cups for someone starting out.  They're easier to work with and don't require buying a special tool, other than a simple soldering iron which you should have anyway in this hobby.  You also cannot argue that a crimped connection will be more reliable than a soldered one.


--- Quote from: PL1 on December 19, 2012, 12:48:17 am ---As a bonus, with the crimp version, you can remove/replace individual pins if you accidently damage them -- with the solder version, you need to replace the whole connector.
--- End quote ---

I haven't damaged any pins yet, and if I do these connectors are only a dollar or two.

-

You seem to have misread the tone of my comments on AVR encoders.  There's no need for so much hostility.


--- Quote from: PL1 on December 19, 2012, 12:48:17 am ---Why don't you ask Sharpfork how much lag there is?  AFAIK he hasn't encountered any during his extensive SHMUP gameplay testing on the KADE.
--- End quote ---

The KADE is claimed to have no lag, and I'm not disputing this.  However, that's not out yet, and I wasn't sure if some people are talking about use a generic AVR encoder, which wouldn't have the purpose written firmware and added hardware to ensure that it's suitable for game controls.  Notice how I just referenced AVR encoders in general, not the KADE specifically.


--- Quote from: PL1 on December 19, 2012, 12:48:17 am ---Ghosting is a MATRIX encoder (Hagstrom KE24, etc.) problem, so not sure why you brought that up in the context of a discrete input encoder. (AVR, KeyWiz, I-Pac, etc.)
--- End quote ---

Just because that is something that's common with matrix encoders does not mean it's not possible to have a similar type of issue with other hardware.


--- Quote from: PL1 on December 19, 2012, 12:48:17 am ---If the USB connection causes lag, then your beloved MC Cthulhu must have the exact same problem, right.   ::)
--- End quote ---

It's not that simple.  If a USB connection has certain limitations, different hardware and firmware could tackle this differently and produce different results.  Notice that I said IF.  I never claimed anything about this in the first place, I just said I'd like to know.

Since the Cthulhu and the KADE are purpose-built for gaming, they've likely addressed whatever issues there may be as well as they could; but again, I wasn't comparing them, or even specifically questioning the KADE, just saying I'd like to know about AVR encoders in general.


--- Quote from: PL1 on December 19, 2012, 12:48:17 am ---IMNSHO thread-crapping when you admit not being familiar with the encoder in question is right up there with pissing into a public water fountain.   :tool:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
--Abraham Lincoln
--- End quote ---

I really don't see how I was "thread-crapping."  I made no statement of fact about encoders.  I just said I'd like to know.  I didn't realize it was so inflammatory, and IMNSHO I think all the insults and hostility are completely uncalled for.  If you're going to crucify everyone who asks questions, we won't have much of a forum.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've even mentioned Cthulhu's in weeks, so I don't know why you brought that up.  It sounds like you've been waiting for quite a while for an excuse to attack me.  Whatever I did to deserve a vendetta against me, I apologize.  I guess.

-


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on December 19, 2012, 04:01:28 am --- A DSub / printer style connector is strong, but the wires attached are usually thin.  If the cable is bent and moved around often... internal wires can break...
--- End quote ---

Yeah, it's possible.  It's not really much of a danger though.  The same is going on in the cords for video game controllers, and they can stand up to quite a bit of abuse.  I wouldn't recommend going smaller than 24 gauge, but stranded wire is pretty tough.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on December 19, 2012, 04:01:28 am ---and wires can detach from the pins.
--- End quote ---

Again, no.  Even with a free hanging cable, the hoods are designed to provide more than enough strain relief to prevent this.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on December 19, 2012, 04:01:28 am ---Still, you wouldnt be able to drop a control panel in place, or slide it in place, using a Dsub / DB connector... UNLESS, you were using a highly accurate channel guide system.  Even then, its a stretch, as the connectors have almost no forgiveness. (no play..  so need greater than MM accuracty alignments)

A large edge connector however, has a reduced accuracy requirement, due to larger connections, and a connector that has some initial play, which funnels the cartridge/board into place, getting tighter as it enters.
--- End quote ---

The female side of a d-sub is slightly rounded to guide things in.  It's arguable.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on December 19, 2012, 04:01:28 am ---Theres a reason why Game Consoles used this style of connector.   Imagine trying to pop in a Dsub ended cartridge repeatedly for your old game console.    Dsubs connectors are great for static application... such as locking them in place.
But for high rep use... they are not great for ease of connectivity.
--- End quote ---

True, game cartridges use PCB edge connectors because they allow so many pins, but the controller connectors are actually much more similar to d-subs, especially the Genesis/Megadrive and Atari.  Most just use plastic shells so they can use a propriety connector shape.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on December 19, 2012, 04:01:28 am ---If your talking Monitor Dsubs... they often need to be screwed down to prevent them popping off over time.  Sometimes they are so tight, that its a real pain to try to get them together, or yank them apart.  Usually happens when the the thin metal outer shell has been dented from a simple 2ft drop to the floor.
--- End quote ---

I don't bother with the locking screws on my custom A/V and controller d-sub cables anymore.  They don't pop off unless you give them a good yank.  They're not really that fragile either.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on December 19, 2012, 04:01:28 am ---I dont think it matters how big the connector, nor the amount of connections.  Cost and ease of use, is usually the main factors for consideration.   You can always remove wires unused with ease.   The connectors themselves, will be hidden, (possibly even sunk-in... if you really want to get fancy)  so it does not even matter what they look like.
--- End quote ---

If we're talking about a free hanging cable, the d-subs would be much better due to bulk.  If we're talking about slide-in-and-lock system, which would be the slickest, I think both would work well.

Nephasth:


--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on December 19, 2012, 07:32:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: PL1 on December 19, 2012, 12:48:17 am ---
--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on December 18, 2012, 10:43:55 pm ---I wouldn't really recommend this.  Crimping those tiny connections and inserting them all in the housing can be a huge pain in the butt.  It's also not nearly as reliable as a single piece solid connector with solder cups.

--- End quote ---

Only true if you are using the wrong tool -- like vise grips -- to do the crimping.
--- End quote ---

Yes, it will work great if done perfectly, but using solder cups is a bit more fool proof.  Crimping those small connections can be a chore, and the tiny little tabs that keep the crimp-on pins from backing out of the housings can get finicky.

I have experience with both methods and I'm just saying I'd recommend solder cups for someone starting out.  They're easier to work with and don't require buying a special tool, other than a simple soldering iron which you should have anyway in this hobby.  You also cannot argue that a crimped connection will be more reliable than a soldered one.

--- End quote ---

I'm going to argue a couple things here. My Two-Headed Beast has thousands (yes, thousands) of crimped terminal pins, not a single wire has pulled out of any of those pins, even after numerous mating cycles. A set of crimpers that can crimp numerous different types of pins can be had for just as much as a cheap soldering iron ($30-$35), and is definitely a tool one should have in this hobby considering that all arcade machines utilize crimp connectors in their harnesses. I would not recommend soldering to someone just starting out (assuming they have no previous soldering experience), crimping pins on wires has a much more forgiving learning curve than soldering. If you've had problems with crimp terminal pins, you're doing it wrong.

rCadeGaming:

I'm just saying that in my experience I've done both, and one seemed like less of a hassle than the other to me.  Also, having a soldering iron and knowing how to use it pretty important in this hobby.

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