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Donkey Kong (us set 1) slow on mame 147

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gman314:


--- Quote from: BadMouth on November 30, 2012, 10:13:22 am ---
--- Quote from: gman314 on November 30, 2012, 09:58:21 am ---By the way, my specs are: ASUS mb (on board video), AMD 64 dual core cpu, 4 gb ram, samsung 830 series 256 gb SSD.

--- End quote ---

Why do you never give your processor speed or model number?
It's the most important spec regarding games not running full speed.

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Sorry.  I'm usually at work when I send these posts and don't have the specs in front of me.

The CPU is:  AMD|A64 X2 6000 3.0G AM2 2x1M R and the MB is ASUS|M2A-VM HDMI AMD 690G AM2 R

yotsuya:


--- Quote from: MaxVolume on November 30, 2012, 01:51:26 pm ---My cabs are done... why the ---fudgesicle--- do I still even bother with this ---smurfing--- place....  :banghead:

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Good question.

BadMouth:


--- Quote from: MaxVolume on November 30, 2012, 01:51:26 pm ---
Oh for ---fudgesicle---'s sake, it's NOT about games *I* don't want to play!  It's about the fact that when these games DO boot up, it's a blank ---smurfing--- screen with maybe an LED or numeric display or two.  You have to SIMULATE so much crap to make it actually playable, yet a TRUE VIDEO GAME like PONG or Computer Space gets left out... which is pure ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- in my opinion.

My cabs are done... why the ---fudgesicle--- do I still even bother with this ---smurfing--- place....  :banghead:

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If those discrete games were 100% emulated in MAME, you'd just complain about the processor requirements being too high.
YOU are the one who wants MAME to be a collection of pc ports instead of an emulator.

I weeded all the stuff I don't want out of my xml file and romset in an afternoon using romlister.
http://www.waste.org/~winkles/ROMLister/
(manually add "mechanical" and anything else to things to exclude at the bottom)

Haze:


--- Quote from: MaxVolume on November 30, 2012, 01:51:26 pm ---
Oh for ---fudgesicle---'s sake, it's NOT about games *I* don't want to play!  It's about the fact that when these games DO boot up, it's a blank ---smurfing--- screen with maybe an LED or numeric display or two.  You have to SIMULATE so much crap to make it actually playable, yet a TRUE VIDEO GAME like PONG or Computer Space gets left out... which is pure ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- in my opinion.

My cabs are done... why the ---fudgesicle--- do I still even bother with this ---smurfing--- place....  :banghead:

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Pong is included, unlike the previous time it appeared it actually does now run a true netlist of the components which is stored in an external 'rom' file.  There is maybe *one* person on the dev team with the hardware level understanding to do something like that, said person isn't working on things like the Fruit Machines.  Also, it's very slow when you consider it's pong, that's what circuit level emulation costs you.

Load up something like '30 test' in the latest version of MAME and you might not even realise it's a non-video game, the internal layout is pretty damn good, it's a fun little reaction tester type game, which admittedly would be a lot easier with a gun or a touchscreen.  Sure in their basic form the Fruit Machines might not look that pretty, but if people do artwork for them they can do, and if they help advance the MAME artwork system and we eventually get the ability to do full 3d simulation of cabinet models which some of the limited tech late 70s / 80s classic games really need anyway then you'll start to see even better things across the board  (something like Space Encounters, would look much better with a more developed artwork system with true light sources, heck even Space Invaders would look better if if you could adjust the viewpoint at will)  By emulating things like Fruit Machines, and being able to identify needs of systems anybody wanting to come up with a new rendering engine is far better positioned to do so.

As I've said, it's all part of the puzzle in the end and nobody is forcing you to run things if you have no interest in them.

As far as download size of the entire rom collection goes that's shrunk recently too, one of the recent things I did was add 7-zip support and the saving of having everything 7-zipped more than offsets the increased size caused by any of the mechanical games anyway, and the entirety of it can be dwarfed by a couple of HDD / CD based titles.

Finally, I don't get why people are taking offence to me looking at it, I've consistently delivered things people WANT to see in MAME over the years, even recently, the PGM games (Demon Front, DoDonPachi II) that many people consider make 146 worth upgrading to, that was my work, the Cave SH3 stuff, getting that to *playable* speeds (even if it's since been taken out) was my work, many of the other significant systems in the past (CPS3, SuperNova, Psikyo SH hardware, the original Sega System 32 implementation) were at least in part, my work.  That's in addition to countless random Korean titles, obscure games on one off hardware and even some most wanted titles form better known manufacturers.  If I want to work on Fruit Machines and Gambling games I'll damn well do so because while as games they generally suck they can be just as interesting to study and it's a *massively* under documented area right now (I can't find any references anywhere for a decent number of games even from the major manufacturers and there are literally countless video based systems we've never seen so much as a rom for either and that's just looking at the UK market)




rCadeGaming:

Ok, first of all, the sentiments of a certain individual here do not reflect those of the community, at least I should hope not.  Maybe we should just be grateful that MAME devs are taking time out of their busy schedules to have a frank discussion about our concerns here...


--- Quote from: Haze on November 29, 2012, 12:30:55 pm ---RSG is a peculiar case, it's running on the arcade equivalent of a Saturn, and yes, it's always a driver where I've found the input to be laggy.  The I/O chain is quite complex, going through a separate sub-cpu etc. and various layers before it actually gets to the game, and that's on original hardware.  I've heard many reports that a fair number of Saturn games have noticeably laggy controls even on the real system, although I would have thought if RSG suffered form that issue on real hardware more people would have mentioned it.  It is possible there is a bug in the timing, things need tighter syncs, interrupts are being fire off at the wrong times and missed, something like that.  There are definitely still issues with the Saturn emulation (evidenced by MESS where a number of games suffer from no working inputs at all) the problem is fixing some of them makes it even slower, and it's slow enough already for the time being!  I'm not sure I'd recommend the current version for RSG anyway, apparently some of the improvements made to the driver (and improve Saturn support as a whole) have actually caused it to regress in places, it's not a nice system to work with and right now it's a bit like balancing plates.
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Oh no, sounds like a mess!  I'm very interested in playing RSG, but ever since I found out about the lag in MAME I had been planning to import the Saturn version; maybe I'll stick with that plan for anything Saturn based.

When I get a copy I'll use a 240fps camera method to check how the lag compares between the Saturn port and in MAME.


--- Quote from: Haze on November 29, 2012, 12:30:55 pm ---Yeah, I've heard of ShmupMAME, they're unfortunately stripping away lag that WAS present in the original games (either by design, some games added it to intentionally be harder!) or by breaking layer sync in the process (some games buffer inputs and/or sprites to ensure the different layers get rendered correctly and in sync)

It achieves what they want, but I find the side-effects undesirable.
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Is it possible that the input/frame buffering present in some games would be unnecessary when running on a PC that's fast enough to ensure everything gets done in under a frame?  Perhaps there should be a configuration option to turn buffering on or off, depending if it's necessary in your setup, or for certain games but not others?

I think that if a game added lag just to make the game harder, that's kind of a bad design decision, and I wouldn't mind improving it.  That being said, I understand that MAME's goal is to accurately portray whatever the original hardware did, and "making improvements" based on someone's opinion obviously isn't acceptable in the official MAME release.

What I'd propose is that these kind of changes should be available in optional diff patches.  That way when I compile I could choose to use the hacks where I deem them to be more beneficial than harmful.  I could stick with the official "vanilla" MAME because I appreciate all the advancements you've mentioned, and the hacks I'd like to include wouldn't be mucking up the integrity of the core MAME release.

Are you familiar with this patch?  It seems to remove some buffering, I just recently found it and haven't had time to play with it:

http://daifukkat.su/2012/08/mame-no-buffer-patch/


--- Quote from: Haze on November 30, 2012, 05:33:09 pm ---I've consistently delivered things people WANT to see in MAME over the years, even recently, the PGM games (Demon Front, DoDonPachi II) that many people consider make 146 worth upgrading to, that was my work, the Cave SH3 stuff, getting that to *playable* speeds (even if it's since been taken out) was my work, many of the other significant systems in the past (CPS3, SuperNova, Psikyo SH hardware, the original Sega System 32 implementation) were at least in part, my work.
--- End quote ---

I for one appreciate all of this immensely, especially the CPS3 emulation.

That Cave stuff was amazing as well.  I'm not an expert on the legal issues, but is their any kind of date we can look forward to when that can be added back in?  Like a certain time period after the initial release, or after it is no longer commercially available?

-

gman, 3.0ghz should be more than plenty for DK unless there's something else wrong with your system.  I'd also agree that the aspect ratio settings should not be having any effect on speed; anything you're noticing is probably an effect of your perception as you said. 

I would leave the aspect ratio at standard 4:3 (may be called 3:4 for vertical games) for most games.  Whatever the "pixel aspect" of these games, they were generally designed to fill a 4:3 monitor.  Games like DK weren't intended to display perfectly square pixels, just look at the way the barrels are drawn.

You should also probably be running Direct3d for your purposes, and you probably are if you didn't change much from the default.  I would guess that you should just keep your DirectX updated to the newest version, but I'll defer to the experts here on that one.

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