Changing side art on Pinball 2000: Do I need to paint!??!

[jasonbar]

Howdy-

My Revenge From Mars side art is a bit sad, so I obtained a set of 5 Star Wars: Episode I side art stickers.

I started with the right side of the backbox. I picked away at the loose sticker & used a razor blade to peel off the remaining parts that were more tenuous.

I then removed the remaining adhesive that didn't come off with the sticker.

Underneath the sticker was wood painted solid white. I took a blade to a tiny corner & confirmed that there is bare wood under the white.


The problem is that the SWEPI sticker is a few inches undersize & doesn't reach the edges of the wood panel. It appears that the SWEPI art (as seen here: http://www.pinballzone.com/swe1/images/swe1-firstboxlayer2.jpg) is intended to be stuck over the RFM art. Alas, my RFM art has all kinds of flaws around the perimeter, so it would be silly to leave it on & just stick the new art over it.

It seems that I will need to paint all of the white wood black before laying down the sticker. I sure am not looking forward to doing this on the rest of the cabinet. I just confirmed that there is indeed white under the stickers on the main body too.

Ugh, did this already daunting task turn into a gargantuan one?


Thanks,
-Jason

[TopJimmyCooks]

Or you could get plain black vinyl- same color as RFM, and cover the cab, then install SW.  More $ but would look more like an original conversion.

[ChadTower]

I would sand it down and paint it semigloss black. 

[jasonbar]

I gave this some more thought & realized (duh) that the SWEPI artwork was intended to be simply & quickly stuck on top of the existing RFM artwork by an operator when converting the game. By design, the RFM border artwork was meant to stay there, so the operator didn't need to remove T-molding & legs & flipper buttons.

Sanding & painting isn't feasible for me. Big black adhesive-backed vinyl is the way to go for me. What's the best source for such stuff?


Thanks,
-Jason

[yotsuya]

I gave this some more thought & realized (duh) that the SWEPI artwork was intended to be simply & quickly stuck on top of the existing RFM artwork by an operator when converting the game. By design, the RFM border artwork was meant to stay there, so the operator didn't need to remove T-molding & legs & flipper buttons.

Sanding & painting isn't feasible for me. Big black adhesive-backed vinyl is the way to go for me. What's the best source for such stuff?


Thanks,
-Jason

Try thisoldgame.com

[nickbuol]

On a side note, it is kind of sad that they weren't able to produce more tables for the Pinball 2000 setup.  That would have been cool.

[yotsuya]

Yeah, I would love a Pin2000 Star Wars for my home. There's one on CL right now, but I don't have the space/funds for it.

[HaRuMaN]

There's one on CL right now

Not anymore! 

[ChadTower]

I have one.  RFM is a way better game.  It's a good thing you can play both on the same cab...

[yotsuya]

Castles N' Coasters has RFM and SW side by side. I usually play RFM while my daughter plays SW.

[jasonbar]

I decided to go with adhesive vinyl instead of painting because: a) I had a very pregnant wife in the house, and b) I now have a very young son in the house. I don't like the idea of paint fumes, which are not recommended.

1 - I first tried some relatively thin black vinyl that a friend gave me. It was too thin to handle easilyly & creased too easily & I couldn't squeegee out the bubbles, even using a bit of adhesive-backed vinyl solution. I tried this about 3x, cursed, & gave up.

2 - I browsed the internet & eBay for porous vinyl to see if there was an option that would let an amateur like me get bubbles out more easily. I came across auto wraps that supposedly have air channels in them. I settled on this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160866910681

I bought 1 sheet in & applied it to the right side of the cabinet head. I used *lots* of water with a little dish soap. I removed the entire backing paper, laid the vinyl adhesive side-up on the floor, put a thin film of soapy water on its entire surface, wetted the cabinet too (after cleaning the primered surface with ethyl alcohol & a clean rag, keeping the surface in question vertical--no room to lay the machine down), and placed it by hand relatively carefully.

This material is pretty durable & I was able to yank off & apply tension & squeegee back & forth (with a wetted baby burp cloth) a few times until it looked quite good.

To get the last few bubbles out, I wrapped the wet burp cloth twice around a CD jewel case & used the case's rounded edge to squeegee. Out spurted little sprays of soapy water here & there from underneath the vinyl. Not bad!

I then trimmed the excess vinyl around the panel, leaving a little extra. I folded the extra material over & slit it at corners. It didn't stay down very well.



I added the SWEPI decal & with the same process described above. It was a bit thinner & brittle & more fragile relative to the new vinyl auto wrap.



The next day, I added red T-molding, cutting "V"s out at the corners & bonking it in w/ a rubber mallet, & I made sure to capture the extra folded-over vinyl material under the T-molding.


I think it looks pretty good. Granted, it could better, but this sort of work isn't my forte (painting, sanding, molding, smoothing, etc. etc.). The vinyl is a very close match to the original sticker, in terms of shade of black & gloss level.

The stickers for the cabinet sides will be quite a challenge--tons more surface area to make smooth, need to remove the head (heavy w/ monitor!) & lots of hardware. Maybe I'll flip it on its side for this part...I've already bought 2 more auctions of that vinyl to which I linked above. 1 auction is enough to cover both sides of the head, & 2 more auctions will cover the 2 cabinet body sides.


I've got the left head decal removed & am in the tedious process of removing all of the adhesive left behind. I could really use some tips on adhesive removal. I've tried peanut butter, alcohol, Goo-Gone, rags, paper towels, razor blades, excessive rubbing with my thumb until I get blisters, etc. Nothing works quite well--it's such a pain. ANY TIPS!??!?


Thanks,
-Jason

[MaineEvent]

RFM is a much better game

[ChadTower]

Try a heat gun when removing the decal. 

That looks like good work.  I would have left it RFM, though.  My SWE1 has RFM art on it. 

[jasonbar]

I fiiiiinally found time to attack side 2 of the head. I'd stripped off the old art 2 months ago, but then I moved last month & didn't find time to apply the art. I kept the machine disassembled after the move so that I could apply the art horizontally instead of vertically (soooo much easier!).

Last night, I cleaned & sanded the primered wood & laid down the black auto vinyl wrap on the left side of the head. Looks swell. Tonight, if I find time, I'll trim the black vinyl overhangs & lay down the SWEP1 art. I've found that a baby burpy cloth wrapped over a DVD case makes a fine squeegee, & that the advertised air channels in the auto vinyl wrap do seem to help purge air bubbles rather well.


I chose to switch my cab art from RFM->SWEP1 b/c my RFM art was a bit beat up (around the borders mostly, unfortunately, so I couldn't just slap a set of kit stickers on...), the RFM translite had a tear & tape repair (so I sold it), & I came across an NOS SWEP1 translite (packaged w/ my NOS SWEP1 playfield!) & a good deal on SWEP1 stickers (that had a couple of very very small tears).


Now that I have a big garage in which to work, perhaps I'll take the above advice & use paint instead of big vinyl for the lower cabinet sides, since I can keep the paint fumes away from my baby boy. We'll see how that plays out.


Thanks,
-Jason

[jasonbar]

Trimmed black vinyl auto wrap, tapped on red t-molding, added SWEP1 Darth Maul art.

-Jason

[TopJimmyCooks]

New SW art instead of tired RFM art = win.  looks nice.  It will also help you sell it if you get tired of the game in a month and half. 

[jasonbar]

Don't tell anybody, but I actually prefer SWEP1 over RFM!  ssshhhhh

[jasonbar]

Attacked the lower body yesterday. Flipped onto side, scraped off 1 side of art quickly & easily. See pic. Corners are painted touch-ups from a previous owner.

Performed a small test of seeing if the black auto wrap vinyl would float on water & soap, even though the exposed cabinet is super tacky primer with decal adhesive still all over it.

Floats great!

But the ridges & "dunes" of the adhesive show far too clearly through the thin auto wrap after squeegeeing the vinyl nice & snug to the cabinet.


Dang. Gotta remove a looooot of adhesive remnants before laying down the black.

-Jason

[Nephasth]

Dang. Gotta remove a looooot of adhesive remnants before laying down the black.

Brake cleaner will make short work of that.

[jasonbar]

And not damage the primer on the wood?

[Nephasth]

I used it to clean up adhesive from my GL playfeild after removing the mylar. Your primer will be fine, but like with anything, test a small area first.

[Dawgz Rule]

Looks sharp.  The vinyl definitely gives it an authentic look.

[jasonbar]

I found the following in my garage: Aqua Mix Sealer & Coating Stripper. It's for removing sealant on tile grout. It also turns out to work great on removing adhesive. I poured a bit on the cabinet, rubbed with an old towel, & the adhesive moved away just great. It also removed the painted touch-ups. I removed about 80% of the factory vinyl adhesive on one cabinet side in just 15-20 minutes. It smelled pretty strong, so I kept the garage doors open for good ventilation & went outside for fresh air every now & then.

After I stopped for the night, I gave the exposed primed cabinet wood a once-over with another rag & some isopropyl alcohol to remove any residue that might continue to eat into the primer overnight.

This morning, about 11 hours later, the primered paint looked great, the smell was gone, & the area with removed adhesive was nice & smooth. It shouldn't take long to finish off this side of the cabinet.

-Jason

[jasonbar]

Stripping done. Primered wood is smooth as a baby's fanny. Taped up 2 open holes on the cabinet side (taped on the inside--the holes used to mount the head to the body) Just need to block out an hour or so to lay down the black adhesive auto wrap. In the meantime, I'm rattle canning the lock-down bar to cover some flaws. Ordered a new pair of cabinet side rails from Pinball Life, as I killed the 2 rails when removing them from the cab. Darn.

-Jason

[jasonbar]

Laid down black vinyl. Very very sensitive to surface imperfections, even as short as touch-up paint!

Very easy to float & squeegee out, though, with lots of soapy water underneath (and all holes plugged or taped on the back side to keep water out of the cabinet).

-Jason

[jasonbar]

Trimmed black auto wrap vinyl adhesive. I left a little overhang at back & bottom, rather than trying to trim right on the edge. If the foldover leads to delamination on the side panel, I'll trim then.

-Jason

[jasonbar]

And down go the bad guys' artwork. Again, easy to float & squeegee.

Next: flip over & repeat for the other side. I'll trim all of the fastener holes & flipper button holes & such when it's upright. Even laying this down on soft moving blankets, I don't want to have any places where holes in the just-laid-down vinyl can catch & tear.

-Jason

[jasonbar]

Laid out a moving blanket & an old mattress pad/cover. Rolled the game over. Removal of the cabinet side rail already took off a lot of the art on this side. 10 minutes w/ a razor blade & all the art was gone. Whoops, one extra carriage bolt to remove from this side of the cab, for the playfield prop rod!

-Jason

[ChadTower]

Nice!  Thanks for the pics.  I'd love to see one of these done in auto vinyl in person some day.

[jasonbar]

CT, I can mail you a scrap of the material if you want to check out yourself.

-JB

[jasonbar]

Spent about 1 hour in two 1/2 hour sessions today, stripping the adhesive off of the right side of the cabinet. Final side, finally! Phew!

I'll let the garage air out & then lay down the black auto wrap tonight or tomorrow.

-Jason

[jasonbar]

Laid down the auto wrap vinyl on the lower cab right side tonight. Tomorrow: SWEPI right side art, & then lots of trimming & careful cutting out of a dozen or so holes for screws & flippers. Swirls in the picture are remnants of soapy water that I left on the surface, which I used to aid in squeegeeing out the air bubbles under the vinyl.

ChadTower, I kept a scrap about 6"x10" for you. PM me soon if you want it. Otherwise, to the trash it goes!

-Jason

[jasonbar]

Trimmed the lower cabinet right side black auto vinyl.

Laid down the SWEPI lower cabinet right side art.

Adhered the new black right side rail from Pinball Life with a loooooooong piece of double-sided tape. I was careless & killed the original rails when pulling them off. The front hole doesn't line up quite right w/ the cabinet's hole. I'll need to run my drill through it. As a bonus, these new rails also have holes on the back ends, which the stock ones did not, so I'll run a second bolt in the rail at the back end for extra security.

Next, put it upright, pull the playfield, & put all the cabinet hardware back in.

-Jason

[smartbomb2084]

This is really turning out nice....Hard work  pays off ...

99 cent cans of dollar store spray paint aren't always the answer.

Curious as to how many man hours you have into this... Have you been keeping track?

I've got an NOS decal set for my NO FEAR that I am just plain SCARED of putting on... not because of the hard work but because I have no confidence that I can do it well.

You are becoming a real pro at this... maybe I'll send the game to you and you can decal it for me.

What would you charge to do someone's game now that you have done it yourself?   

 

[ChadTower]

PM sent with shipping info.  Thanks, Jason.   

[jasonbar]

Thanks, smartbomb84.

This is really turning out nice....Hard work  pays off ...

Looking at it up close, I see all the defects: little bits of something that got under the vinyl & make a little teeny peek, imperfect trimming of auto vinyl along cabinet edges, a shallow scratch here & there, some original small flaws/tears in the SWEPI art (which is why I got the 5-piece set for $70 instead of $270).

Curious as to how many man hours you have into this... Have you been keeping track?

I haven't been keeping track, but let's say...
1h for front sticker
6h for 1 top sticker
5h for other top sticker
12h for both bottom stickers
__
24h? That sounds too low. Probably 30h or so? Or, in short "too many" hours...

I've got an NOS decal set for my NO FEAR that I am just plain SCARED of putting on... not because of the hard work but because I have no confidence that I can do it well.

You are becoming a real pro at this... maybe I'll send the game to you and you can decal it for me.

What would you charge to do someone's game now that you have done it yourself?   

My brother has a Dracula w/ good but faded art. He found some alternate art on-line & asked me what I thought about him trying to change the art. I told him that I will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever do art on a machine again. Maybe a little piece like a normal head side or a coin door, and only if it's not this p2k nonsense that requires black & then the art...ugh, this was such a pain in the fanny. Never again! Ever!

Having said that, I'll answer your charge question as vendors do when they really don't want the job. I'll quote you something ridiculously high: $2,000. :]

Next time I do this, I pay somebody else to do it!

Good luck w/ your NF! :]

-Jason

[macattack]

Love the vinyl idea. I build a lot of scratch built p2k cabs and have some original artwork I am going to apply on a couple of mine. I am certainly thinking of using the black vinyl rather than painting the black. The repro rfm ones now are full cabinet so less of an issue on those.

[jasonbar]

Without getting on too far of a tangent how & why do you build a lot of p2k cabs? The auto vinyl is somewhat thin, not too thin to manage without crinkling & creasing, but thin enough to show any flaws in the surface underneath. Do you have lots of NOS "small" art in stock, vs. the new repro "big" art?

-Jason

[smartbomb2084]

Thanks for being HONEST about how HARD it actually is to do this... 30 hours of physical... 130 hours of thinking...

I know deep down you are disappointed about the small imperfections but overall the initial impression has to be a FACTORY look to the casual obserever. 

I am sure you learned a lot doing it... as did I.... and as well as everyone else lurking in the background who followed this thread.

THANKS for posting your progress... looking forward to see the final pic of the complete game...

[macattack]

Without getting on too far of a tangent how & why do you build a lot of p2k cabs? The auto vinyl is somewhat thin, not too thin to manage without crinkling & creasing, but thin enough to show any flaws in the surface underneath. Do you have lots of NOS "small" art in stock, vs. the new repro "big" art?

-Jason

If you follow any of the virtual pin stuff,  I do a lot of p2k style builds for that community. I find that the reflection technique works really well for the Dmd element. Makes game play more interactive when you don't need to look up as much. I think right now I am the only person reproducing a close to replica cabinet as well as a conversion head to turn any cab into a p2k style. You can check out some of my threads on hyperspin forum, I think my tron build is also on here.

Your right if the vinyl is thin its not going to cover a lot unless you have a decent finish first. There are some thicker vinyls out there. I have a couple sets of ep1 I plan on using and 1set of the larger rfm, in reality most of end users apply full. Vinyl when they get their artwork created.

So as to not get off on a tangent in this great thread, pm me if you want any additional info.

[ChadTower]

Could you provide a couple of links so we can take a look?  It's a very interesting concept.  I'm a huge pin2k fan and am always looking for ways to extend the concept in the future.

[macattack]

Could you provide a couple of links so we can take a look?  It's a very interesting concept.  I'm a huge pin2k fan and am always looking for ways to extend the concept in the future.

here's some quick links.
conversion head during design phase
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac340/gbconcepts/null_zps0d386af4.jpg

various p2k cabs during builds
http://s913.photobucket.com/albums/ac340/gbconcepts/Pinball/P2K/

original tron build
http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10766

transformer build
http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?22704-Optimus-Pin-P2k-Build-(39-24-22)

[jasonbar]

Finished all art!

By the time I did the last sticker, it was somewhat routine...but still work-intensive. There were a couple of air pockets that wouldn't squeegee out during application but I worked them out the next morn after most of the water/soap solution had dried & the adhesive was better able to stick.

Slitting the auto wrap to allow for hardware (2x flipper button assembly, 1x playfield prop rod bolt, 4x head mount holes) was easy. For the 8 leg bolts, I just cut 1 little slit, because the front & back panels didn't get the auto wrap treatment, so I didn't need to cut much.

I'll post some more detailed pics shortly, and I have since assembled the cab & (shockingly) everything still works 100%, but here are a few thoughts to capture now before I forget:

1 - The auto vinyl warped a little at the 3 screw holes for each flipper assembly. This may not be an issue for normal flipper buttons.
2 - The art got damaged when I torqued the nut/bolt for the playfield prop rod. I'm not sure how to address this. A big washer would keep the art from getting damaged but cover the art some.
3 - I put the cabinet side art a little too high. I roughly centered the art on the sides of the cabinet, but the head overhangs the top of the cabinet by a few inches, & the side rails also cover the top inch or two of the side. Fortunately, I didn't put the art so high that the side rails covered it. That would be disappointing.
4 - NOS art is quite brittle. The art that I bought had a few small flaws: small tear or punch or bite taken out of an edge. A few of these grew during handling/application/schooching/squeegeeing. Darn.
5 - Trimming at the edges was tricky. If it's too long, it will leave a little flap that will get caught & probably peel back or fray. If it's too short, the white wood primer is exposed. I should have spray painted the perimeter of the lower cabinet sides before applying the black auto wrap, to prevent any white from peeking through. This is a non-issue on the head, where there's T-molding all around. There's a small spot where the right art meets the front of the cab, where my right hand brushes against when reaching for the right flipper buttons. I think I need to trim it juuuust a little bit, but I'm a bit frightened to do so...The jury is still out on whether to trim the auto wrap to the edge or to trim a little long & fold over to the back side/underside.
6 - Don't use the same 10-1 water-soap solution on *top* of the stickers as underneath. I used 10-1 filtered water-dish soap under the auto wrap & the NOS art to float them into position & then squeegee them. I still think it's FM that all that water & soap just disappears, but it sure seems to. My (small) mistake came from using that same solution on the outside to act as a squeegee lubricant. When all was said & done, I spent a good half an hour & lots of rags & paper towels & alcohol to de-soap the entire cabinet outsides (soapy water had dripped onto the front & back panels too, as well as the glass, which cleaned up quickly & easily w/ Windex). I think that plain water would be just fine for an artwork-protecting lubricant when running the squeegee over it.
7 - Speaking of squeegees, I very much liked the baby burpy cloth wrapped over a DVD case. The case was firm but flexible, & I could adjust its stiffness by using the short end or long end against the art.
8 - It wasn't a big deal, but it might have been a little easier/safer to have removed the playfield first. I figured it was safer inside the cab than outside, where I didn't have a great place to store it. As such, I went through extra efforts to mask holes & keep the glass on & such, which added a little labor & risk & cleanup, but it worked out OK.
9 - I cut up pieces of ShamWOW & stuffed them in cabinet holes during sticker application. These made for good plugs to keep soapy water out of the cab. They came out easily when done.
10 - Now the rest of my cabinet looks disappointing, especially the front panel & coin door & legs. Oh well--not gonna do any more cosmetics on this! :] I did do a little spray paint on the lock-down bar, which had a bit of rust.
11 - There are a few flat-headed carriage bolt-ish fasteners in the cabinet from the factory (holding inner playfield slide rails, I believe). If I really wanted, I could have used wood filler & sanded those super flush. But, the factory art showed these fasteners, so I didn't feel bad out showing them in my work either. :]
12 - Ditto for a few places where my razor blade removal of the old art pulled up a small spot of primer. These show through the auto vinyl wrap & SWEPI art.
13 - The front holes in the side rails from Pinball Life pretty much lined up w/ the cabinet holes. I ran a drill through to clean them up a little. I also drilled holes for each of the 2 back holes in the new rails (that didn't exist in the stock rails) & added 8-32 pan head screws to secure those rails better. I didn't have black screws, & I ran out of black spray paint doing the lock down bar, so I found some "smoke" spray paint that I'd used on an RC car to tint its windows heavily & laid down several coats. That's close enough to black, & the big fat head covers up those fasteners anyway.


That's all for the moment. I'll post complete pics & closeups of some of the above issues later.

Thanks,
-Jason

[jasonbar]

One more pic.

[ChadTower]

Looks pretty good.  Not 100% perfect but a serious improvement over what you had before.   

[ViriiGuy]

Looking good!!!

[jasonbar]

Pics of the final product, with lots of closeup of the different instances of......character....

1 - Left side, assembled.
2 - Right side, assembled.
3 - A small crack in the original art lengthened during application. Very brittle. :\ Then, over time, the crack also widened--perhaps during the next couple of days of drying, the sides pulled back in tension. Compare pic 3 attached to this post against one of my previous attachments up above, shortly after application & notice the difference: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=123295.0;attach=271840;image
4 - While torquing the in-cab nut on the playfield prop rod carriage bolt, the carriage bolt twisted a little & its head spun the art with it.
5 - Around the big kooky p2k flipper assemblies, the auto vinyl rippled a bit at the 3 locations where the fasteners pass through (the cabinet has a cutout of a big circle w/ 3 small semicircles around it to clock the assembly & keep it clocked properly). At the 3 small semicircles, I cut 1 radial slit pointing towards the big circle's center. After torquing, there are 3 small ripples at those 3 places. Also look up a little higher & see slight auto vinyl wrap distortion where the cabinet rail was fastened.
6 - Closeup of 5.
7 - A bit of distortion on the head where the auto wrap folds over & tucks under the T-molding.
8 - Ditto.


To be continued...

[jasonbar]

...and now, the thrilling climax to this special 2-part episode.

9  - Bolt heads that weren't flush to the primed wood show through auto wrap. This is how they were from the factory--were I a stickler, I could have cleaned up w/ wood filler & sandpaper. Note another slight slit/tear in the SWEPI art. Also note the dilemma of where exactly to slit the end of the vinyl: too short & the white primer shows through, too long & you're left with a flap that will likely catch & peel/tear.
10 - Ditto bolt head & a little distortion where auto wrap is folded under T-molding.
11 - Ditto bolt heads & edge trim.
12 - Ditto edge trim & comparison of glossy auto wrap vs. flat black cabinet paint on front.
13 - Ditto glossy/flat comparison, another view of side rail-induced auto vinyl distortion, & a small chunk of cab where front meets right that I should have filled before stickering--a little weirdness just in front of right flipper.
14 - Edge trim on bottom. Also note a little right of photo center, near the cab bottom, a little waviness resulting from a small chunk of primer being scraped off accidentally along w/ the old factory sticker, and not being filled before restickering.
15 - A couple of lumps, probably from debris under the sticker(?)
16 - Ditto.


Enjoy. I hope it's been educational. I've learned that I don't ever want to re-decal a cabinet again. So, I'm currently looking into stencil & spray paint on my MAME cab, which has terribly flawed surfaces to start with! :]

Thanks,
-Jason

[smartbomb2084]

WOW... nice write-up...

I bet hose imperfections are entirely invisible when playing the game.... I know I can't see them from my house.

So what its not perfect... still looks better than before.

After this thread I KNOW I am SCARED to tackle my No Fear...

Maybe. we just might be selling the artwork intead.

[Nemesis]

  you just destroyed the resale value. 

[insx]

@macattack Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I just joined and I am not allowed to post PMs. Do you have a CNC template for the RFM cabinet available? I'm talking to someone about some custom decals.