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The Walking Dead - Season 3
Howard_Casto:
I think both of you are forgetting that he murdered Otis and murdered the kid that they kidnapped. Regardless of the reasons he used to justify either, there was no legitimate reason to do either. A murderer is a villain, plain and simple.
This is the same reason I was calling the Walking Dead panel stupid.... the Governor was a villain from day one, because he killed those military guys for no reason. If you are willing to kill once then you are willing to do it again. That makes you evil.
Vigo:
Nope, I didn't forget. It's just that Rick has more unnecessary kills under his belt than Shane. The two guys in the bar that wanted to join Rick's group, all but two of the surviving prisoners. You could even easily say that Rick was the one who planned to kill Shane (Through manipulation of Laurie) Rick let him self get in a perfect situation to kill Shane with nobody questioning his motive. Anytime Rick feels threatened by somebody he just offs them.
Shane's kills fall under the same justification. Killing Otis allowed Shane to escape with the respirator and save Carl, and killing the kid kept that other group of survivors from retaliating and attacking the farm.
Howard_Casto:
No, no he doesn't. Maybe you've been watching a different show but:
1. The guys at the bar literally drew a gun on him and he fired to defend himself at the last second. That's not murder, it's self-defense.
2. Again, the prisoners tried to kill him, that's not unnecessary although I'll give you that the one he left to the walkers was pushing it and this was Rick's one and only break. You'll remember that he spared two of them. Shane would have killed them.
3. Rick was trying to give Shane every opportunity, which is why he followed him into the woods.. hoping Shane would change his mind.
4. Shane could have given Otis the respirator and sacrificed himself, which would have been the right thing to do. (Even though we've been over this, those zombies were a mile away and neither was in any real danger.)
5. Shane Killed that kid to lure Rick out, again, evil intent.
Not only what you do, but why you did it is the final deciding factor of if it's a villainous act or not.
I think you are confused. I never said that Rick was the hero, just that Shane was decidedly the villain. Although that Laurie argument could certainly be made. You are also confusing threat level with the validity of their villain status, Dick Dastardly is probably the most ineffective villain ever, but he's still a villain.
ChadTower:
I think it's entirely possible Shane would have stabilized after he hooked up with Andrea if Laurie hadn't dragged him back in and crushed him. That would have been a good thing for him to the point that he almost left with Andrea... except he didn't want to leave Laurie.
Vigo:
Rick is a police sheriff. He knows how to approach people without provoking them, but he deliberately acts threatening in order to justify killing them. Ever sense the barn issue, he had snapped. Time and time again he provokes people and kills them.
In the bar, Rick backed the guy into drawing his gun. Rick would rather see them dead than share any info or even lie to them about their location. In the prison, Rick allowed himself into the situation of having a walker tossed at him. It was obvious he wanted them to try something so he had the excuse to kill them. Rick also let himself into the woods alone with Shane to allow Shane to make his move. It played out exactly how Rick wanted it to, and he took Shane down.
Going to Shane's kill of Otis, Shane would have no reason to sacrifice himself and give the respirator to Otis. Otis was not only slow, but untrustable after shooting Carl. Shane was not convinced it was a hunting accident. With the kid from the other group, Shane stated all along that they should just kill the kid. They even had a group vote about killing him, and all but Dale agreed to kill him. Shane was doing what Rick couldn't manage to bring himself to do. Shane was clear all along that he has been the one making the tough calls for the safety of the group. Yeah, I'd call him crazy, unstable and dangerous, but not a villain.
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