First Driving Cab Setup....Need some emulator control help?

[junkmailjame]

Greetings all.

My first post so here it goes. I am building my first driving cab using my old roadblasters cab.

I have everything wired up to the yoke and pedal with an optipac and an a-pac and it works fine except for one thing.

Anyone idea how I would setup the yoke for steering in the Sega Model 2 emulator? The buttons work just fine but no luck with the optical steering.

Thank you all.

[BadMouth]

The mouse can't be mapped in M2emulator.

A program like Mouse2Joy could translate the mouse input to joystick input, but I don't have any personal experience with it.

Bkenobi did this with glovepie:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,92363.0.html
(not exactly what you're going for, but the programs you need are there)

Is the wheel still limited to 270 degrees? 
If it's liimited anyway and it accepts a 1/4" shaft, consider switching it over to a potentiometer instead of optical.

Lots of driving cab info in the sig in my thread.
Someday I'll get around to rewriting it.

[junkmailjame]

Thanks for the post BadMouth.

I think I will give Mouse2Joy a try. Do you happen to have a link for it?

The wheel is limited to 270. I will have to check the shaft. Are you thinking of replacing the whole yoke?

Thanks again for all your help.

[BadMouth]

Are you thinking of replacing the whole yoke?

Don't have a link for mouse2joy.
After a quick google search it sounds like ppjoy would work: http://www.autohotkey.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=50596

I wouldn't go to the trouble of replacing the whole yoke.
I figured if the optical encoder was attached by a 1/4" shaft, dropping in a $3 pot from radio shack and hooking it up to the apac would be a quick fix.  The software route is probably best anyway.

[junkmailjame]

Thanks again for the help. I gave ppjoy a shot and it did work a point but was really shaky. I am wondering if the pot conversion is the way to go.

Provided the optical encoder is attached via a 1/4 shaft, how would i attach a pot and which specific radio shack pot do you recommend?

Thanks you very much.

[BadMouth]

Thanks again for the help. I gave ppjoy a shot and it did work a point but was really shaky. I am wondering if the pot conversion is the way to go.

Provided the optical encoder is attached via a 1/4 shaft, how would i attach a pot and which specific radio shack pot do you recommend?

Thanks you very much.

It's been a long time since I used ppjoy so I don't remember if there are any options for smoothing it out.
You might try calibrating the fake joystick it creates in windows.
I wouldn't give up on the software solution yet.

Any linear taper potentiometer would work with the A-Pac.

I'm usually hooking the controls up to a hacked logitech wheel, so I have to use whatever value potentiometer it originally used.  (usually 50k or 100k)
Your pedals and most arcade pots are 5k.
Any of these would work:
http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=linear%20taper%20potentiometer&origkw=linear+taper+potentiometer&sr=1
If the potentiometer shaft is easy to couple to the steering shaft, it would just be a matter of taking a $2 strip of metal from a home improvement store, drilling a 5/16" mounting hole toward one end, and bending it to hold the pot in the correct position.
(......if the potentiometer shaft can drop right in where the encoder wheel or gear was)

[junkmailjame]

Thank you for the help. Well I have decided to stick with the software for now.

One issue I am having is I cannot seem to get my pedal to assign in MAME. I have tried numerous versions but no luck. It is a pot attached to the a-pac. When I press down on the pedal it scrolls through the different buttons, but after hitting enter it will not assign anything when the pedal is pressed.

I am pulling my hair out but cannot figure out where I am going wrong.

Any help would be awesome.

Thanks again.

[BadMouth]

Thank you for the help. Well I have decided to stick with the software for now.

One issue I am having is I cannot seem to get my pedal to assign in MAME. I have tried numerous versions but no luck. It is a pot attached to the a-pac. When I press down on the pedal it scrolls through the different buttons, but after hitting enter it will not assign anything when the pedal is pressed.

I am pulling my hair out but cannot figure out where I am going wrong.

Any help would be awesome.

Thanks again.

First off, you need to "de-assign" the joystick inputs under Input(General) in MAME's in game menu (tab)
Under User Interface, change UI up, UI down, etc so they only use the keyboard keys.
(they probably say "UP or Joy1UP"....or something like that)
That will keep it from scrolling while you're trying to map.

Also make sure ENTER is still mapped to UI select (or something like that)

[junkmailjame]

Thanks again for all the help. Ok, I "de-assigned" the UI keys.

Still no luck.

I know the pedal works since I checked it in windows (when I press it down, the joystick cross hairs go down).

If it helps, I am using the latest version of MameUI64. Thanks again for all your help.

[BadMouth]

Thanks again for all the help. Ok, I "de-assigned" the UI keys.

Still no luck.

I know the pedal works since I checked it in windows (when I press it down, the joystick cross hairs go down).

If it helps, I am using the latest version of MameUI64. Thanks again for all your help.

Did you enable the joystick in mame.ini ?
(joystick=1 instead of joystick=0)
There's probably a place to do it in MameUI, but I havent' used it.

I assumed it was enabled since pressing down on the pedal was making it scroll through the list of inputs, but maybe it still works for that if not enabled.

Also, make sure you only map it to the PEDAL input, not PEDAL INC or PEDAL DEC.
There is an option under analogue controls to reverse the input if needed.

[junkmailjame]

Thanks again for all your help BadMouth. I really appreciate you hanging in there with me.

I ensured the joystick was enabled in mameui.

I am testing using outrun and after I hit tab, I arrow down to pedal analog and hit enter. I then press the pedal down and nothing happens.

I know the pedal works but am pulling my hair out trying to get it to map. Again thanks for the help and if you can think of anything else I am missing that would be awesome.

[BadMouth]

strange.
will give it some more thought.

The only other thing I can think of for now is to hold the pedal down, then press enter, then let the pedal up.

[PL1]

BadMouth - Would it make any difference if his pedals were wired single-axis versus dual-axis?   




Scott

[BadMouth]

BadMouth - Would it make any difference if his pedals were wired single-axis versus dual-axis?   

I would think if it works in windows, it should work in MAME regardless of how it's wired.  It sounds like it's working in M2emulator.
This is probably one of those situations where there is something odd about the OP's software setup and we don't have all the info.


junkmailjame, sometimes when you have both MAME and MAMEUI, MAMEUI can end up pointing at a mame.ini file other than the one MAME is looking at.
IIRC some flavors of MAMEUI even have a mameui.ini in a separate ini subfolder.  Using notepad, open up the mame.ini that's in the same folder as MAME and make sure that joystick=1.
Also make sure that the deadzone isn't set to 1 (100%) and saturation isn't set to zero. 
If you can find any other mame.ini files in other folders, do the same to them.

Have you tried launching the game via command line using official mame build?

[gkarnik]

If the yoke is connected to the optipac and works as a mouse in windows, then don't use any mouse to keyboard utilities as mame supports mice directly.

In mame.ini, have these settings:
trackball_device          mouse
mouse                     1
multithreading            0

Then start the game and set the player 1 "_analog" x and y controls by spinning the trackball.

Hopefully that does it.

[junkmailjame]

Thank you all so much for the help. I greatly appreciate it.

I still cannot figure out what I am doing wrong. I know it must be something simple but I am just not seeing it.

To that end, I took a quick video of what is happening. I am running the latest version of mame64 (official). I made sure joystick was 1 and I had the deadzone and saturation set correctly.



Sorry for the rolling screen, but the monitor in reality is really nice and crisp. If anyone sees where I am going wrong please do not hesitate to post. Thanks again.

J

[BadMouth]

Looks like deadzone is set to 1 (100%) and saturation is set to zero in the video.

Either one of those would make your pedal not work.
Set the deadzone to .05 and the saturation to 1.

EDIT: Touching music btw.  I cried.

[junkmailjame]

Thanks again for all the help BadMouth. Still no luck. What gets me is that when the UI down is defaulted to original settings it has down or Joy 1 down which allows the pedal to be used to scroll down the menu.

So frustrating

Here is my config:

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[junkmailjame]

Is it possible to hard code the controls in a config file. For example, I want Pedal Analog to be Joy 1 Down. Any way to do this in a config file somewhere?

Thanks.

[junkmailjame]

Thanks again all for the help. I still have had no luck. Can anyone recommended a version of mame that has worked for them?

[junkmailjame]

If anyone has a version that has worked for them just let me know.

In the mean time I am going to convert my wheel / yoke to a pot as recommended by badmouth.

It looks like Star Wars and my Roadblasters use just about all the same parts. I bought a pot and a gear that works in Star Wars and should work great in my RB. I will post the full conversion when I am all done.

In the mean time, any help with the pedal would be awesome.

"Help me obi wan"

J

[BadMouth]

I came accross a similar problem today while tinkering with some homemade rotary joysticks.
They worked fine for Ikari Warriors, but wouldn't work for Heavy Barrel or Victory Road no matter what I tried.
The optical encoders I used were extremely low resolution (12 pulse).

Same behavior as you're experiencing.  It would work fine in windows.  It would map fine in Ikrari warriors, but in the other games, it wouldn't even be detected when mapping controls.  I hooked up a higher resolution encoder (900 line) and it registered immediately.  I even used the same Opti-Wiz interface both times.

Not sure if it's the same thing, but since your pedals are only 5k, they are also low resolution.  There isn't a lot of variance for MAME to judge the "steps" by.

Wire the pedal input on the A-Pac up to a $3 100k linear taper potentiometer and see if it makes any difference.
I thought the A-Pac worked with any value pot, but it's worth a shot since we've tried everything else.

[junkmailjame]

100K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW I AM PLAYING WITH POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in short..............it worked

Thank you so much for the help BadMouth. The 100k pot from radio shack did the trick.

I am now on to the steering. I have a pot mounted, but with my setup the wheel (yoke) goes further than the pot. It is a 270 wheel (yoke) with a stop at the bottom. Here is what it looks like.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8490/8159763230_59c503eaa9_k.jpg

I bought the smaller gear and drilled a new hole so it would match up correctly with the big gear.

So any suggestions of which pot to get? I tried the 5k one I bought but the pot stopped before the yoke did.

Thanks soooo much again for all the help.

J

[BadMouth]

I am now on to the steering. I have a pot mounted, but with my setup the wheel (yoke) goes further than the pot. It is a 270 wheel (yoke) with a stop at the bottom. Here is what it looks like.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8490/8159763230_59c503eaa9_k.jpg

I bought the smaller gear and drilled a new hole so it would match up correctly with the big gear.

So any suggestions of which pot to get? I tried the 5k one I bought but the pot stopped before the yoke did.

Thanks soooo much again for all the help.

J

The smaller gear makes things worse, as it turns multiple times for every one turn of the big gear.
Either need to change the gearing or find a pot that can make multiple turns.
Radioshack won't have it, but you can find them online.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-100K-Ohm-10-Turn-Rotary-Taper-Potentiometer-Pot-3590S-2-104L-Potentiometer-/271025236982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1a5cebf6
I'd put a dot on the small gear with a marker and see how many turns it makes when turning the steering lock to lock.
Then order a pot that can make at least that many turns.

I assume there is no way to attach the pot directly to the steering shaft?

[PL1]

Standard replacement parts for a SW yoke won't work right because the 270` wheel turns WAY further than the yoke does.

To figure out the right size gear to replace the 28 tooth, use this formula:

60 tooth gear (#degrees the wheel can turn/360 degrees) = X tooth gear (#degrees the pot can turn/360 degrees)

If it is close, round up after solving for X.

example:
60(270/360)=X(360/360)
60(.75)=X(1)
45=X  ==>  45 tooth gear or slightly larger.

You may also consider using a smaller gear in place of the 60 tooth.


Scott

[junkmailjame]

Thank you all for the help. I put a dot on the small gear and the turns only overlap each other once. So would that mean I am looking at a dual turn pot?

I could not figure out a way to put the pot on the big gear since the wires run down the middle. What would work is if I could find a big gear with a hole that would match the radio shack pot i got. So a big gear or a 45 tooth gear (thanks PL1) with a hole small enough to fit the radio shack pot.

So here is what i need to know:

1. With the current setup, which pot should I buy with the smaller gear only overlapping once.
2. Is there a large matching gear with a center hole small enough to fit the radio shack pot.
3. How bout a 45 tooth gear that would match the big gear and fit the pot.

Thank you all sooooo much again for the help.

I think i am almost there.

J

[PL1]

45 tooth gear

Danger, Will Robinson!! Danger!!


That number was only an example of how to do the math to choose the right combination of 2 gears and 1 pot to use with your "270`wheel."  These numbers were chosen for easy math, not based on the reality of your hardware.


Scott

[junkmailjame]

Thanks for the help. I may just buy this based on BadMouth's idea:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-100K-Ohm-10-Turn-Rotary-Taper-Potentiometer-Pot-3590S-2-104L-Potentiometer-/271025236982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1a5cebf6

Not sure how it would be seen by the apac but may be worth a flyer. If i could find another 60 tooth gear i would try that too but they seem to be hard to find. ramcontrols seems to have some, but not sure about them.

Thanks.

J

[PL1]

Thanks for the help. I may just buy this based on BadMouth's idea:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-100K-Ohm-10-Turn-Rotary-Taper-Potentiometer-Pot-3590S-2-104L-Potentiometer-/271025236982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1a5cebf6

Not sure how it would be seen by the apac but may be worth a flyer.

Not sure if a 10-turn pot will give you a large enough range of resistance/voltage values for smooth movement once digitized.  Might be able to calibrate it to work well enough, though -- never used an A-Pac.   

Looks like a cheap pot.  You might want to order several, just in case.

If i could find another 60 tooth gear i would try that too but they seem to be hard to find. ramcontrols seems to have some, but not sure about them.

BE SURE!  Read this sticky thread (there used to be TWO simultaneous stickies on SCAM Controls), puke, wipe your brow as you realize you dodged THAT bullet, then head over to VGP/ArcadeFixit.com and order from Stephen. (Mylstar on KLOV)  The prices show just how proud he is of his NOS stock , but he's a great source.  He has other parts not listed on the site.  Bought a trigger for my SW yoke from him.


Scott

[junkmailjame]

Thank you all for your help with my conversion.

We the good news is I bought a pot that worked. Three turns and MAME recognized it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260686730994?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

The bad news is that I did not do my research and make sure the center post was wide enough to fit the 28 tooth gear......argh

So I do know that the pot i got will work, now i just need to find one with a post diameter that will fit the 28 tooth gear.

The pot that worked is:

BOURNS MINITURE POTENTIOMETER MODEL# 3510S-441-501

3 TURN POTENTIOMETER

RESISTANCE: 500 OHMS     LINEARITY:  0.3%

BODY:  0.875" DIA.  X  0.554" LONG

BUSHING MOUNT

If anyone out there knows the diameter of the post that will fit the 28 tooth gear please post away.

If anyone knows of a pot with the specs above that will fit the 28 tooth gear....even better

I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

[BadMouth]

Meh wrap the thing in electrical tape to make it thicker or epoxy it in. 

EDIT: there's another old trick where you shim it up with a strip cut from of a beer or soda can.

[PL1]

If anyone out there knows the diameter of the post that will fit the 28 tooth gear please post away.

1/4" shaft


Scott

[junkmailjame]

Thanks again for the help everyone. I found another one to try:

Spectrol 533 3-Turn 10K Precision Potentiometer

Precision Wirewound Potentiometer

10K

3 turn

1.5 Watt

7/8" round case

1/4" dia. shaft

I ordered it before I thought about the electrical tape trick.....oh well....throwing more money into the cabinet.

The waiting is the hardest part.

[BadMouth]

Thanks again for the help everyone. I found another one to try:

Spectrol 533 3-Turn 10K Precision Potentiometer

Precision Wirewound Potentiometer

10K

3 turn

1.5 Watt

7/8" round case

1/4" dia. shaft

I ordered it before I thought about the electrical tape trick.....oh well....throwing more money into the cabinet.

The waiting is the hardest part.

10K isn't much more than the 5k arcade one you had problems with. 

Too late to ask them to send a 50k or 100k instead?

[PL1]

Precision Wirewound Potentiometer

10K

3 turn

10K isn't much more than the 5k arcade one you had problems with. 

Too late to ask them to send a 50k or 100k instead?

I believe that the main problem was the amount of rotation -- ~270' compared to ~120' for a SW yoke -- rather than the resistance values.

Hopefully after calibration, it will provide the correct range of smooth motion.


Scott

[BadMouth]

I believe that the main problem was the amount of rotation -- ~270' compared to ~120' for a SW yoke -- rather than the resistance values.

It was the pedal before, so it was restricted to an even smaller range.
I'm more concerned with not having a smooth motion than it not working.
It will probably be fine. 

[junkmailjame]

GREAT SUCCESS!!! The 1/4 diameter 3 turn pot WORKED!!!!!!

The only thing left to address is the range for the X-Axis. In short I need to know if there is a way to configure mame based on the X-Axis range of the pot.

When I calibrated it in windows:

Turning it all the way to the right = 430
Turning it all the way to the left = -1228

For the pedal:

Stationary = 200
Pressed down = 1850

If any one can help me set things based on the above calibration that would be awesome.

THANK YOU ALL

[BadMouth]

GREAT SUCCESS!!! The 1/4 diameter 3 turn pot WORKED!!!!!!

The only thing left to address is the range for the X-Axis. In short I need to know if there is a way to configure mame based on the X-Axis range of the pot.

To set the limits correctly, you need to go into the service/test menu of each game individually.
Also, in MAME's in game menu (TAB), mess with the sensetivity until it feels right.  Don't be afraid to crank it up.  I think I ended up around 125 for the cruisn' games.  The only thing you need to tinker with is sensetivity.  The adjustments that say digital are for when key presses are substituted and won't have any effect on your analog controls.

You'll only have to do this once for each game.

[junkmailjame]

Well two steps forward on back. The sega emulator does not seem to like the 100k pedal pot.

I will get a 10k from the shack and see how that goes since the 10k yoke pot works.

Back to the yoke settings, I cranked up the sensitivity but still did not have the range needed. I will keep playing with it, but I am wondering if adjusting the figures that set the joystick map in the config can perfect the range.

I have never fooled around with the joystick map before but I am wondering if that would work.

[BadMouth]

Well two steps forward on back. The sega emulator does not seem to like the 100k pedal pot.

I will get a 10k from the shack and see how that goes since the 10k yoke pot works.

Back to the yoke settings, I cranked up the sensitivity but still did not have the range needed. I will keep playing with it, but I am wondering if adjusting the figures that set the joystick map in the config can perfect the range.

I have never fooled around with the joystick map before but I am wondering if that would work.

What do you mean by "range needed"?
Is the car not turning all the way even though the wheel is?

I don't know what you mean by joystick Map, but I've never used an a-pac.
Do you have the saturation set to 1 (100%) in MAME and have it calibrated in Windows?
That and calibrating it in the service menu of the game should set the range correctly.