Recoil Kit now available for Aimtrak Gun

[RetroACTIVE]

A solenoid is basically a short.  It's a coil of wire that is low resistance.  When voltage is applied across the coil it creates an electromagnetic field and causes the plunger to get pulled in.  These devices are meant to be momentary (at least in this design).  If a basic solenoid like these are left energized, it turns into a toaster!!!  Unlike pinball coils/solenoids which are a bit different, they have two windings, one high voltage for the kick and a secondary that uses lower voltage for the hold (so they can stay energized without melting down).  Long story short... Don't leave these solenoids engaged/energized.

2 Amps is sufficient for your average 24V recoil (momentarily energized) solenoid.

[AndyWarne]

Also before I had the right power supply I hooked mine up to a standard PC 12v power supply just to test (which I think is 25amps) and left it sit for about 10 minutes and the solenoid got super hot and melted both sides of the gun shell so I'm pretty certain the amperage needs to be low.

Oh dear... this would be totally expected. The solenoid is supposed to be activated for 40 milliseconds max not 10 minutes!

The power supply can be 5 amps or greater. You could use one which can deliver 100 amps if you wish. The normal ohms law calculation of power drain does not apply in this case because the solenoid is being pulsed for a short time. Coils do not obey ohms law at the point of being energised because energy being fed in is absorbed by the action of the induction on the plunger. Once they are powered continuously they do obey Ohms law and the power drain becomes simply based on the very low resistance of the coil, and is very high. Too high in fact. This is the reason for the 40 millisecond pulse.

[8BitMonk]

A solenoid is basically a short.  It's a coil of wire that is low resistance.  When voltage is applied across the coil it creates an electromagnetic field and causes the plunger to get pulled in.  These devices are meant to be momentary (at least in this design).  If a basic solenoid like these are left energized, it turns into a toaster!!!

Oh dear... this would be totally expected. The solenoid is supposed to be activated for 40 milliseconds max not 10 minutes!

All of the other components were hooked up as well, ie. the PCB controlling the trigger and activation of the solenoid so I didn't expect it to be drawing constant power, I'm still not sure why it was. 

The power supply can be 5 amps or greater. You could use one which can deliver 100 amps if you wish.

Why does the documentation say 'peak current of 5amps'?

[pinballjim]

Unlike pinball coils/solenoids which are a bit different, they have two windings, one high voltage for the kick and a secondary that uses lower voltage for the hold (so they can stay energized without melting down).

That is only true about flipper coils.  The rest of them are one winding which is why they'll melt down if you have a stuck switch.

[RetroACTIVE]

Unlike pinball coils/solenoids which are a bit different, they have two windings, one high voltage for the kick and a secondary that uses lower voltage for the hold (so they can stay energized without melting down).

That is only true about flipper coils.  The rest of them are one winding which is why they'll melt down if you have a stuck switch.

Yep ... I should have clarified that.

[8BitMonk]

I've updated my post on the Hyperspin board with a sample of a 36v power supply. It's noticeably better than the 20v or 24v and by far my favorite. I would say no to using a 20v power supply, 24v is passable and 36v is preferable.

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?20938-Aimtrak-diy-recoil-kit-released!!/page4

The 36v supplies I got were the Kodak ones on referred to on ebay (url earlier in thread) and were only about $10 apiece.

[AndyWarne]

Why does the documentation say 'peak current of 5amps'?

Because the 5 amps is only required in short 40 millisecond bursts, so there is no need for a supply which has a continuous rating of 5 amps. A peak rating of 5 amps is sufficient.

[rcub3]

Did we ever get an asnwer on what is needed if you are starting from zero?  Gun Kit, recoil kit, and new housing? 

[nick3092]

Did we ever get an asnwer on what is needed if you are starting from zero?  Gun Kit, recoil kit, and new housing?

I answered it earlier in the thread after I emailed Andy. The shells are just that. No trigger, side button, screws, etc. So you need the full gun kit as well as the new shells and recoil kit.

[rcub3]

 I'm assuming each solenoid will need it's own power supply, right?

[8BitMonk]

Yes. I also posted a list of all of the components with approximate prices on the first page of this thread.

[rcub3]

Yes. I also posted a list of all of the components with approximate prices on the first page of this thread.

I blame the ADHD...

btw 8bitmonk, thanks for all the info over at the HS forums.   

[JRoz]

only thing holding me back is not a pre-made plug and play version with the recoil...may have to go with the top gun 3 since i'm horrible with a soldering iron and will probably end up breaking it all

[Zeenon]

Can you use one of these power supplies for both recoil guns?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-350W-10A-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-for-CCTV-Led-Radio-/110773285203?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ca9a3153

Z

[epicfatigue]

Nice work Andy,

Guys if your thinking about the Aimtrack i say just lash out and get it, i tested all off the USB modals EMCtopgun etc etc.
None of them compared close to the Aimtrack.

I have not tested the recoil kit Andy sells but here is a short video of my Namco Recoil gun with a Machine Gun mode using an Aimtrack.

 

[rcosner]

As someone who has purchased both the Aimtak gun and Recoil Kit, I can say with confidence that a pre-assembled option is would be preferable. I am looking at this mess of miniature wires asking myself if it is worth risking $95 of working gun in order to install this $40 recoil kit, which will likely also be a casualty in this endeavor.

At the same time, there really is no option, you have to have the recoil. Not having it would just be lame.

I figure I have about a 50% chance of coming out of this with a working gun. I'de rather have the option of paying say $200 and just knowing its going to work.

 

[epicfatigue]

As someone who has purchased both the Aimtak gun and Recoil Kit, I can say with confidence that a pre-assembled option is would be preferable. I am looking at this mess of miniature wires asking myself if it is worth risking $95 of working gun in order to install this $40 recoil kit, which will likely also be a casualty in this endeavor.

At the same time, there really is no option, you have to have the recoil. Not having it would just be lame.

I figure I have about a 50% chance of coming out of this with a working gun. I'de rather have the option of paying say $200 and just knowing its going to work.

 

Pay someone to solder the 4 wires?
To be honest i think anyone should be able to do this with a 98% success rate

But if you took it to a tv repair and handed them a diagram they would do it in 2 minutes and charge you say $15

[PL1]

If you're not comfortable with your level of soldering skill, read this thread, watch a few tutorials on YouTube, and practice on some junk electronics similar to what you'll be soldering for the mod.

You'll be up-to-speed in no time.   


Scott

[JOHN HOWARD]

Just went to check the 36V power supply posted by Nephasth and that 8BitMonk recommends. Unfortunately they have been removed. can anyone suggest a similar/ appropriate item?

Cheers,

[epicfatigue]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/36v-36-volt-3-amp-Lithium-li-ion-battery-charger-/181149430745?pt=AU_Electronics_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item2a2d58f3d9

just double check your amp rating.

Sure 3amp would be fine.

[JOHN HOWARD]

ahh any charger/ power source will do ehh. Cheers guuys

[epicfatigue]

Volts have to match, amps can be higher but not lower.

So if it requires 1.5 but you have a 3amp then 3 amp is perfectly fine.

[letraitplat]

Actually I'm having quite a hard time to find a matching PSU, with 36V and 3A, and compliant with europe mains (220/240 volts) and with a long enough cable to provide comfortable gameplay.

I found those but I'm unsure they can be shipped to my place (France) and not even sure they'll be OK for the recoils :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111154398270
The seller seems to have just this one in stock -_-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120941755169?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
The cable seems very short...




And some Kodak ones :


Kodak Delta EADP-108AB A Power Supply Adapter 36V 3A



AC Adapter Delta Model EADP-10BBB A 36V DC 3A   
Input: AC 100-240V~ 50/60Hz 1.6A
Output: 36V DC 3A



MODEL :EADP-108BB A
INPUT :100-240V~1.6A 50-60HZ
OUTPUT :36V---3A


Any help / advice welcome

[peteski]

Hi guys,

I'm just getting my head around this recoil kit. I have original Namco guns and was wondering are many people using it to hook into the standard namco solenoid setup?

Thanks
Pete

[lap]

Hi All

I just purchased the ultimarc guns and recoil kit as well as power supplies off of ebay and have had a very hard time to get it all to work. I am confident in my soldering skills due to many soldered mod chips back in the days for the video game systems. I have bought a total of four power supply units trying to get these solenoids to work. All four are 36 volt. the first set are a made in china unit off of ebay with like a 4.16 amp output. This power supply sets off the solenoid as soon as I plug it in and leaves it engaged thus causing it to overheat. The second set of power supply units are a kodak and have an output of 36v and 1.7 amps. This unit set off the solenoid as soon as I plug it in and then the power supply unit power light turns off and fails to work again.  If I unplug the unit and replug it in, it does the same thing again. Any help is much appreciated here as I am at a lost. Very frustrating experience so far!!

[clhug]

I'm a little confused based on earlier posts.  If I do not already have any light guns at all, and want to purchase the AimTrack with the recoil kit, do I need only the full gun kit and the recoil kit, or do I also need the replacement shells?  Do the base gun kit shell not have room in them to mount the solenoid?

If the replacement shells are NOT needed, then just ignore the rest of this message.  If they are needed, then please read on.

If I need the shells too, that would then effectively make the recoil setup cost $43, $29 for the solenoid kit and $14 for the shell, correct?

If the replacement shells are required, I just have to comment, and would like to hear why not....  These recoil kits have been around a couple years now.  Why not just sell the base gun kits with the shells that have room for the solenoid, even if it doesn't include the solenoid itself?  (I did the see the posts about why there's no pre-built kit with the recoil solenoid included, but at the least the shells in the base kit could be the proper shells to fit the solenoid.)

I also have to say, if the replacement shells are required, this is not very clear on the Ultimarc web site.  The page that talks about the recoil kit shows a gun shell, but makes it look like that's part of the kit.  But when you go to the "store", the solenoid kit and replacement shells are listed separately, and there is no mention in the shell description that it's specifically for the recoil kit.

Also, the replacement shells apparently only come in black and red?  Why not a blue one to match the original kits?  I want to purchase 2 guns and want a red and a blue, but I also want recoil.

I certainly don't mean to be rude, if I was interpreted as such, but it's a bit confusing.

Thank you.

[dkersten]

It is terribly confusing to anyone who hasn't been following this stuff since the beginning.  My understanding is that you need the following to make this work:

The gun: ~$95 each
The shells: ~$14 each
The Recoil Kit: ~$29 each

From other source:
Power supply: ~$10 each
cord to connect power from cabinet to gun: ?? A few bucks I would guess unless you have some old speaker wire lying around.

I have also read recommendations to use the arcade style hose to house the wires since now you will have the USB cable from the gun to the cab PLUS the extra wire pair.  You could just tape it all together or whatever, but that is a pretty cheesy solution. 

With shipping on everything, I would easily expect to spend a total of around $320 for a pair of these with the recoil..

[epicfatigue]

It is terribly confusing to anyone who hasn't been following this stuff since the beginning.  My understanding is that you need the following to make this work:

The gun: ~$95 each
The shells: ~$14 each
The Recoil Kit: ~$29 each

From other source:
Power supply: ~$10 each
cord to connect power from cabinet to gun: ?? A few bucks I would guess unless you have some old speaker wire lying around.

I have also read recommendations to use the arcade style hose to house the wires since now you will have the USB cable from the gun to the cab PLUS the extra wire pair.  You could just tape it all together or whatever, but that is a pretty cheesy solution. 

With shipping on everything, I would easily expect to spend a total of around $320 for a pair of these with the recoil..

That's right, for me i decided i could either have the ultimarc guns with no recoil or spend the extra and buy namco recoil guns and an oem mod-dual and make the real thing for a little extra.
But that AImtrack is the cream of the crop, that topgun stuff is crap

[clhug]

Thanks much!  So I must purchase the replacement shells.  That sucks.  I don't quite understand why they still do it that way.  It's been almost 2 full years now since they released the recoil kit.  Why not just make the base gun kits with the new shells now and at least save people that cost?

And it also sucks that the replacement shells are limited to black and red, no blue to match the original blue gun.

If I wanted to go the Namco route, I did see the video of those, very neat, where would I get a pair of those?  I'm guessing those aren't made new anymore?  Do I just keep searching ebay?

[epicfatigue]

Thanks much!  So I must purchase the replacement shells.  That sucks.  I don't quite understand why they still do it that way.  It's been almost 2 full years now since they released the recoil kit.  Why not just make the base gun kits with the new shells now and at least save people that cost?

And it also sucks that the replacement shells are limited to black and red, no blue to match the original blue gun.

If I wanted to go the Namco route, I did see the video of those, very neat, where would I get a pair of those?  I'm guessing those aren't made new anymore?  Do I just keep searching ebay?

You can buy them new from happ the non Namco (its the same thing i got one) just doesnt say namco on the side for $150 each + an oem modual $200 for a brand new recoil gun not a bad deal. 

[AndyWarne]

Thanks much!  So I must purchase the replacement shells.  That sucks.  I don't quite understand why they still do it that way.  It's been almost 2 full years now since they released the recoil kit.  Why not just make the base gun kits with the new shells now and at least save people that cost?

And it also sucks that the replacement shells are limited to black and red, no blue to match the original blue gun.

If I wanted to go the Namco route, I did see the video of those, very neat, where would I get a pair of those?  I'm guessing those aren't made new anymore?  Do I just keep searching ebay?

There has been no need for the replacement shells to fit recoil for several months, I amended the store page and the PDF instructions at the time.

[clhug]

There has been no need for the replacement shells to fit recoil for several months, I amended the store page and the PDF instructions at the time.

Thanks for the confirmation!  That's what I was hoping to hear.

[TopJimmyCooks]

for the good of all:  I tried several different 36V power supplies including the kodak printer ps several have used and a laptop PS.  they were not powerful and the recoil strength faded noticeably after repeated shots.  I ended up getting this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AGT-High-Performance-36V-DC-9-7A-350W-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-36-Volt-/171176816895?

And it was great - hard hitting recoil for 2 guns with no fade.  This is not a high class piece of gear and on the first one I got a large transformer part had broken loose inside and i had to get a replacement.  However, it gets the job done very nicely.  I can't remember but the 7A rating may be slightly over Andy's recommendations for the solenoids, however it worked fine with no ill effects for me.   

[clhug]

I was going to ask, on the 36 V power supplies, I was a little confused on that too.

First, my understanding is that we need a separate power supply for EACH gun?  Although maybe the one pointed to by TopJimmyCooks has enough power to run 2 guns, but I believe with using the Kodak or other printer or laptop PSs, one is required for each gun.  Is that correct?  (That could also explain why TopJimmyCooks had poor performance with other supplies if he was trying to power 2 guns with only a single Kodak or laptop PS.)

My second question is on the amperage.  I do understand the principles of amperage and that the PS can be higher amperage than required (the device will only pull what it needs).  BUT, the original spec called for a PS rated for 5 amps peak (vs. continuous), yet I'm seeing in earlier posts in this thread recommendations for the Kodak and other PSs that are only 1.5 amps.  Is that really sufficient at 36 volts?  Or does the higher voltage reduce the amperage requirement?  Though here, the PS that TopJimmyCooks recommended is rated over 5 amps anyway.

Thanks again!

[TopJimmyCooks]

the laptop and printer power supplies are pretty weak even with one gun only attached.  I think darth marino may have a youtube video showing the solenoids being run with some different sized power supplies.

[clhug]

TopJimmyCooks, can you confirm that you are running both guns off a single one of the 36 V 9.7 A power supplies that you linked to?

[TopJimmyCooks]

yes, plenty of power for 2 guns.  No fade even after blasting away for 1/2 hour. 

[TimeCrisis]

how does this compare to the namco recoil, is it kindof close?

will this mod work in arcadeguns.com guns?

Edit: after speaking with Andy he confirmed they would not work with an arcadeguns.com shell, its simply too small.