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Author Topic: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX  (Read 20467 times)

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stpcore

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Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« on: September 19, 2012, 05:11:47 pm »
I recently got the idea to build a bartop arcade with a soft modded OG Xbox and grabbed a 15" flat screen Dell monitor only to find out that I will have some major issues trying to convert component to VGA.  Does anyone have a particular model of flat screen LCD that they have used that will accept component from the original XBOX?  Anything from 15" - 21" is fine but I'm looking to grab something under $100 if possible.

Thanks for any advice!
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lilshawn

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 05:49:10 pm »
an xbox can be modded to output VGA (or a cable purchased)

http://antibeat.host.sk/vgaguide/guide.html

this would be your best option. any kind of other converting you would be doing is just going to make things look bad.

HaRuMaN

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 09:49:54 am »
Dell Ultrasharp 2001FP.

21" 4:3 monitor, takes composite, S-video, VGA, DVI.

Has excellent viewing angles.  Can be found for under $100 on eBay.

EDIT: Meant composite.  Yellow RCA video plug.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 11:18:31 am by HaRuMaN »

lilshawn

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 11:03:46 am »
monitor takes COMPOSITE (yellow RCA)

not COMPONENT. (red/green/blue RCAs)

perhaps OP can clarify if he wishes to connect COMPOSITE or COMPONENT to an LCD.

stpcore

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 11:12:36 am »
Composite will do just fine.

Thanks for the tip on the Dell. I will be searching for one this week and the $100 price point seems fair for the size.
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stpcore

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 03:00:07 pm »
Just curious if anyone has ever tried hooking up a laptop LCD screen to an original XBOX for a bartop?  A google search shows a youtube vid of someone using a controller board purchased of eBay in the UK to do this.  I was wondering if anyone knows of an adapter that I can purchase in the US to do this?

I found a couple of the Dell monitors locally for around $75 but I want to also use my laptop screen for another bartop if possible.
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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 08:11:24 pm »
Not worth the time & money.

stpcore

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2012, 10:52:31 pm »
Understood.  Thanks for the reply and your honesty.
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sharpfork

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 10:41:14 am »
I wouldn't mess with the laptop display but a computer monitor can be a decent display for an xBox1.
This is the display I'm using in my bartop build hooked up to a 19" computer monitor running an early Coinops 5 Lite beta- crappy cellphone pic:

The skin is widescreen squashed to 5:4 which I'll fix later on.

You have two main options that will give you a very high quality image.
hardware only solutions- any xbox
find an LCD monitor or TV that supports Component (green, blue, red RCA) video.  I don't think s-video or composite are worth messing with after comparing them to Component.

Get a high quality component to VGA converter

Get one of the VGA output timer boards that converts from xbox to vga + jamma.  I bough one of these for testing and will be throwing it on eBay soon.


software + hardware- xbox 1.0-1.5

The cable lilshawn linked to is an option if you don't mind soldering.  It will require a bit of software change using Frostythesnowman's (refered to as frosty most of the time) sofmod patch or hard mod bios to properly output.  I personally find that native 1280x720 via VGA is the best looking solution if your monitor doesn't support the same resolution via component cables.


I made my own just to try it but I doubt I will do it again since I have found easier solutions.


I will be adding the LM1881 and other items in the link lilshawn posted just because I want to mess around with hardware based scanline generation but the etra hardware is not required at all as long as your monitor supports sync on green and you don't care about SLG.  Basically any monitor that has DVI as well as VGA will support sync on green.  I picked up the monitor in the pic above from goodwill for $12 after finding it on this list of monitors that support sync on green: http://ps-2.kev009.com/sog/

If you get a monitor that supports sync on green and you don't want to mess with SLGs, it is super easy to do what you want.

get a standard xbox component cable + this $1.90 cbale from monoprice:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?seq=1&format=2&p_id=6025&CAWELAID=1329452164&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CJnBkISqkrMCFUZgMgod62kAqg

+ this $.68 coupler from monoprice:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10430&cs_id=1043009&p_id=3002&seq=1&format=2

With a frosty patch on your softmod + your xbox (1.0-1.5) set to allow 720p + a sync on green monitor, you are done.  I have personally done this and it looks great.

Frosty makes a boot disc too.  If you boot via this disk, you can try out the VGA mod for just that session.  If you have a 1.0-1.5 xBox, I say make an order from monoprice and give it a try.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 10:45:10 am by sharpfork »

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 11:07:11 am »
Not worth the time & money.
I assume this comment is relative to the laptop screen question, correct?

lilshawn

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2012, 04:23:51 pm »
Not worth the time & money.
I assume this comment is relative to the laptop screen question, correct?

i believe mainly for the fact that to use a bare laptop panel you have to have a driver board for it to decode the signal and transfer it to the panel. (IE - you can't directly control a laptop (or any panel for that fact)without some serious hacking) the panels are LVDS and need extremely high speed switching circuits to operate.


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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2012, 04:49:12 pm »
I totally agree that messing with a laptop LCD is a huge pain.

lilshawn

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2012, 11:34:42 pm »
the xbox is a fairly decent rig for what it does. trying to tweak it so it outputs HD signals ends up with a whole other set of issues. Mainly the CPU just isn't powerful enough to deal with 4x the pixels.

i have 4 soft modded xboxes...my most heavily modded rig that outputs HD has issues playing H.264 video...just too much data to deal with. and it freezes up within the first few seconds.

the other SD modded xboxes play some of it...dropping frames here and there.

sharpfork

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2012, 12:25:06 am »
the xbox is a fairly decent rig for what it does. trying to tweak it so it outputs HD signals ends up with a whole other set of issues. Mainly the CPU just isn't powerful enough to deal with 4x the pixels.

i have 4 soft modded xboxes...my most heavily modded rig that outputs HD has issues playing H.264 video...just too much data to deal with. and it freezes up within the first few seconds.

the other SD modded xboxes play some of it...dropping frames here and there.

I gave up on xbmc4xbox for media when I moved to h.264 for my media but man I love the xbox + coinops for the "brain" of a cab and a jukebox.  I have it down to ~10 second boot time to game selection with no flubber crap.

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2012, 09:36:48 am »
How are you hiding the flubber?  Some type of delay on the monitor power or an actual change to the Xbox?


sharpfork

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2012, 10:57:46 am »
How are you hiding the flubber?  Some type of delay on the monitor power or an actual change to the Xbox?

PBJ-
I'm a hard modder so I make a custom bios that pulls the flubber (and DVD check) out.
I just updated the annotations on an unlisted youtube I made about it last year:


Degenatrons is a soft modder so he added a timed +5 power out to the KADE encoder.  That gets hooked onto a inexpensive little relay that delays the powering on of the Monitor and speakers.  That timing is adjustable in loader and could be used for skipping bios screens on PC rigs.

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2012, 02:12:35 pm »
hey Sharp, i've got a softmodded xbox and i'm using the monoprice cable in your link with the MS hd pack with the frosty vga bios and i'm getting these faint vertical lines on across the entire screen.  Any ideas on how i can fix that at all?  Also wondering if you know of a do it yourself route for scanlines in coinops instead of purchasing a slg?  Thanks

sharpfork

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2012, 03:47:22 pm »
Is 720 enabled in the Xbox dash?
Do you have it set to narrow or widescreen that matches your monitor?

roxashd9999

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2012, 03:54:03 pm »
Yep 720p enebled in MS dash and screen set to normal, i have a dell 2007fp which is 4:3

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2012, 04:02:58 pm »
Post some pics please.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2012, 04:24:46 pm »



sharpfork

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2012, 08:14:10 pm »

Can you get it to show its resolution like this?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2012, 08:33:01 pm »
I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to drop in and say that I took PBJ's advice and found a Neoya X2VGA+ converter, and man, it's awesome.  Easiest solution for getting beautiful 720p out of this xbox.  I recommend getting these if you can find 'em. They truly are the tits. :D

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2012, 09:56:08 pm »
is that a menu in coinops? where would i find that?

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2012, 12:48:32 am »
So i tried to take a pic of what you asked for but its not clear enough to read.  it says its displaying 640x480 at 60hz and that optimum resolution is 1600x1200

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2012, 10:11:16 am »
So i tried to take a pic of what you asked for but its not clear enough to read.  it says its displaying 640x480 at 60hz and that optimum resolution is 1600x1200

Your monitor is running at 480 instead of 720.  I forced mine to go into 480 and it just looked fuzzy, no line issues. 
Your cable looks correct but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have issues.  I see two potential issues off the top of my head--> crappy cable or monitor that doesn't support 720 that is messing with the image when it converts it to 480.

What is is your monitor brand and model?
Have you tried the xBox on your computers monitor or TV with VGA in to compare?

Have you tried the component cables into a TV directly?  The colors will be off with the VGA mod but you should still see a picture and still be able to tell if the line issue is there.

I have had a simliar vertical line issue when I bought a cheapo component cable off fleabay.  But, a bad cable really doesn't explain why your monitor is running a 480 instead of 720.


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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2012, 09:42:41 pm »
its a dell 2007fp.  when i set it to 480 in the ms dash it still has the lines but i'm going to try some of the things you suggested. component cables to tv look great with no problem.  thanks

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2012, 10:41:07 pm »
I just started getting into the odd world of powering LCD monitors via VGA driven by an xBox 1 so anyone feel free to correct me.  What I'm guessing is that your monitor does not support the standard resolution for 720p format which has a resolution of 1280×720.  I assume the monitor is downscaling the output to 480p.  You might get a better picture setting the xbox to output 480 only if the monitor is doing a bad job at downscaling.  I did a test at 480 and I don't have the waves but the image quality is ass compared to 720.  The monitor looks to have s-video as well.  That might be OK in a pinch but isn't going to looks as nice as 720.  Same with the even more ass composite that would be worth giving a try.

supported monitor resolutions are on this page:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2007WFP/en/about.htm

A converter like opt2not might work or might give you the same issues as your current solution.

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2012, 11:28:41 pm »
on the page in your link it says it supports 720p video though

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2012, 02:42:21 am »
I'm a 480i CRT guy mostly so I'm out of my comfort zone a bit.  I can say that the page I posted says it supports 720 specifically over DVI but you aren't using DVI:
Quote
Video display capabilities (DVI playback)-   480p/576p/720p (Supports HDCP)
And hell, "supporting" it might mean it downscales it to 480 which is what you have now with the crappy lines in there.

The correct 720p resolution isn't supported on the monitor spec page- the closest is VESA, 1024 x 768 but I don't close counts here.

"720p format which has a resolution of 1280×720"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p

When I run in to HD issues, I have found that my TV takes the widest range of odd resolutions via RGB compared to the monitors in my house.  If you get it running well on a different monitor, it might help with the troubleshooting process.

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2012, 12:30:09 pm »
Hi I have just recieved my xbox to jamma VGA time control board. (ebay 150890032252 item)
When I connected it at first I had a picture, yet after turning it off the back on, all I am geting now is this message.
" The current imput timing is not supported by the monitor display. Please change your imput timing to 1280x1024@60hz or any other monitor listed as per specifications"

Does anyone know anything about these as there is no instructions .

Monitor is a 19" Dell E190s.

Any help would be great.

 

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2012, 11:52:53 am »



wtf? that just works with a simple component to vga cable? assuming there wouldn't be any issue with 480p either? confirm plz thanks :burgerking:

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2012, 12:34:28 pm »
wtf? that just works with a simple component to vga cable? assuming there wouldn't be any issue with 480p either? confirm plz thanks :burgerking:

That cable setup + frosty bios (512k+) or softmod hack + monitor that supports Sync on green and correct resolution (I use 720p = 1280×720) and you are good to go.  You can add a few other components to support non sync on green monitors and SLGs if needed.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10235&cs_id=1023503&p_id=6025&seq=1&format=2

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2012, 11:41:48 am »
@sharpfork I keep finding Dell LCDs on Craigslist that appear to support SOG, but don't list a display mode resolution of 1280 x 720 being available. I'm hesitant to buy one if it might not work. Do you have any experience using Dell LCDs with an Xbox? If so, are there specific models that you know work? If not, can you provide any other brands/models that you know work so I can keep my eyes open?

Here's an example of a Dell LCD (1703) that I have seen that has SOG, but doesn't list 1280x720 (SOG listed under Electrical):
http://support.euro.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/1703fps/en/specs.htm#preset

Thanks,
Steve

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2012, 12:29:16 pm »
@sharpfork I keep finding Dell LCDs on Craigslist that appear to support SOG, but don't list a display mode resolution of 1280 x 720 being available.

Quick answer while taking a break @ work:
I've tried 5 or 6 older monitors, mostly Dells and Samsung and have never run into the problem with the resolution. showing correctly.  I mostly pick up LCDs at goodwill for bartops for friends and family if they meet the following criteria:

  • for VGA in, they either have both DVI + VGA in or they are on this list as working if they are VGA only: http://ps-2.kev009.com/sog/
  • they have component in (by far the easiest to setup with a console)
  • they are 17" or bigger & cost less than $20 and are worth a risk

When I get some time, I'll try to see if the Dell I'm using on my VGA bench testing system officially supports the resolution & is documented or not.  I haven't really given this much thought other than trying to help figure out why roxashd9999's setup isn't working like it should be.  I'l also ping my buddy rablack97 who is testing Component -> VGA converters to chime in here.


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Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2012, 01:06:26 pm »
Quick answer while taking a break @ work:
Great, thanks! Just the fact that you've had success with Dells gives me confidence. I've ordered the Monoprice adapters and will try some things out once I get them.

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2012, 01:22:03 pm »
My opinions are as follows.....

I use nothing but Dells, they are cheap as folks are getting rid of the 4:3's for the widescreens.

I softmod all of my xboxes.

Now Frosty's dual boot vga softmod hack has it's pros and cons, but you have to have the right setup.

SOG monitor, 1.1 to 1.6 xbox.

You can't remove the DVD rom from your build using frosty's dual vga hack as the code somehow looks for the drive, and you can't even trick it by taking the board out.  It takes a fully assembled functional DVD drive to work.

In my testing it seems to be very picky in regards to the monitor, MB, and the program running.

The dash will show crystal clear and as soon as Coinops booted i got lines and flickering.

So it's a trial and error if you go with the softmod vga hack, you will have to do some tweaking to the monitor, and the xbox settings...

This is the cheap route.....using a monoprice vga to component cable, HD xbox cable, and an extension adaptor....


http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10430&cs_id=1043009&p_id=3002&seq=1&format=2


http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10235&cs_id=1023503&p_id=6025&seq=1&format=2



http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HD-Component-AV-Cable-for-Original-Xbox-/390400069193?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item5ae5a84e49



The more reliable way is get one of these.......vga cable, and an xbox HD cable



http://www.ebay.com/itm/5RCA-YPbPr-Component-VGA-Audio-Video-Converter-1080P-/390201866611?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3574943772380201650%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D390201866611%26

It can be decased to fit in small areas.  It's 35.00 but for the quality of picture and resolution its worth it.  Tons of resolution and zoom modes.

I got rid of the flubber etc, by installing a 5v delay relay to the monitor and my amp.  Then usining the external delay from KADE, i hooked up a small SPST relay to the converter.  So basically whats happeing is i'm letting the xbox do its thing before sound and video is activated.  Once everything fires the xbox is at the dash.....This is for softmodders though....hard modders can manipulate the bios....

http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14004188-h3y-2_dc_12v_delay_timer_time_relay_0-10_second_w_h3y-2_base.html


kuchta

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2012, 02:03:33 pm »
My opinions are as follows.....

Thank you very much for this info. I'll be using a softmodded Xbox with Coinps, so this is exactly the info I was looking for.

You can't remove the DVD rom from your build using frosty's dual vga hack as the code somehow looks for the drive, and you can't even trick it by taking the board out.  It takes a fully assembled functional DVD drive to work.

I had no idea about this. That may have a big impact as I was planning on using the trick that Degenatrons used in his video tutorials to remove the drive and space may be at a premium.

The more reliable way is get one of these.......vga cable, and an xbox HD cable



http://www.ebay.com/itm/5RCA-YPbPr-Component-VGA-Audio-Video-Converter-1080P-/390201866611?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3574943772380201650%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D390201866611%26

It can be decased to fit in small areas.  It's 35.00 but for the quality of picture and resolution its worth it.  Tons of resolution and zoom modes.

This seems promising. And I could use this with any LCD (even one that doesn't support SOG), right? If it doesn't have to support SOG, then I could use a monitor that I already have.

I got rid of the flubber etc, by installing a 5v delay relay to the monitor and my amp.  Then usining the external delay from KADE, i hooked up a small SPST relay to the converter.  So basically whats happeing is i'm letting the xbox do its thing before sound and video is activated.  Once everything fires the xbox is at the dash.....This is for softmodders though....hard modders can manipulate the bios....

I've been reading so many posts recently from you, sharpfork, and Degenatrons about your Xbox mods and KADE and I can't wait to see how it works. I've been checking kadevice.com each day hoping for an update. I guess we'll be hearing something soon? I'm hoping that I'll be able to work on an Xbox-based bartop mid-to-late December. Do you think there's any chance that 2 KADE devices will be available by then?

Thanks for all of your help!

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2012, 02:19:31 pm »
Thanks for the detailed post rblack97

I'm hoping that I'll be able to work on an Xbox-based bartop mid-to-late December. Do you think there's any chance that 2 KADE devices will be available by then?

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Re: Best LCD monitor for ORIGINAL XBOX
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2012, 03:53:49 pm »
Yeah same here on the Degenetron trick, I was highly disappointed when it didn't work...

Although, let's make sure we are on the same page.  The DVD rom trick works on a softmodded only xbox.  When you add frosty's vga softmod then it doesn't work anymore.

You will also be interested in this, if you use frosty's vga hack.  It switches the vga mode to the power button.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=742689&pid=4865456&mode=threaded&show=&st=&#entry4865456

As far as i know SOG doesn't matter with this converter box.