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Trackballs - how much space between ball and monitor/bezel?
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DaveMMR:
Heh, well you know Silly Race has you spinning towards the monitor for the entire level. But it doesn't matter. Because it's far from optimal.

So what do I believe is the optimal solution? Some may not like it but if Marble Madness or Golden Tee are at the top of your playlist, they truly need their own dedicated panels (i.e. no joysticks in the way) for best results. Explained more specifically:

MM: Two TBs installed at 45 degree angles. Again, if you've only a passing interest in the game, you will be fine with a trackball on your main panel but if it's on your favorites list, it's worth the extra effort and expense (especially so you can play two-players).

GT: You can make your panel deep enough have the TB in its own little personal space but for the frantic motions Xiaou2 explained, having joysticks completely out of the way is much better than making the panel way too large (especially for stability's sake - the CP box shouldn't be overhanging the support - like where the coin door would be - all that much.)

And again, in both examples, the original's cabinet design does not allow for easy accidental judo chops to the glass. The System I cab (which MM uses) has a blank vertically-angled piece that segues into the monitor area and Golden Tee's monitor leans back further than usual. That's basically why you have to plan for the handful of games you love and compromise on the others.
MaxVolume:
To all the naysayers, do me a favor and try the following experiment:

Stand at one end of the largest room you can find.  Make sure there's a table or other flat surface nearby, and stand next to it.  You'll need two identical 1" x 1" squares of notebook paper or regular copy paper.  Write "drunk guy" on the first one, ball it up as tightly as you can, place it in your palm and throw it as hard as you can across the room as if it were a baseball.  Put your hand, wrist, arm, shoulder... hell, even put your BALLS into it if you want.

Next, write "Max Volume" on the second square, and ball it up tightly just as before.  Place it on the table and "flick" it as hard as you can using your thumb and index finger or thumb and middle finger.  Now, if you can even find it, go find the piece that flew the fastest and farthest, and open it up.  If you've performed all the steps correctly, that piece of paper will say "Max Volume".

The point of all this is that it's not about surface area making contact with the ball, the strength of your hand, what other connected muscles you try to exert to add force, it's about the sum total of potential energy transferred to the ball.  Your hand, arm, shoulder etc. aren't nearly as efficient at this as simply applying maximum tension to a finger, then letting it go.  Watch anyone throwing a baseball, football, or doing anything else with their arm.  They're never gonna be going so fast that you can't see it.  Now watch your own finger "flicking" something.  You don't really see the arc, just your finger at the "coiled" position and then instantly at the "released" position as soon as you let it go.  That's the same kind of potential energy that two thumbs at the base of a trackball transfer to the ball when you press inward and then let go.  It's gonna get the ball going faster and make it spin longer than any "Superman" move will.  Not only that, but as I've explained, the equal forces make it as straight a shot as you can get, and you can even vary the balance between the two if you want a bit of a "hook".

Now, I've explained how my method works.  I'm not just talking out of ---my bottom---, here.  Everyone seems to be bashing me because none of you have thought of it, and the drunk knuckle-draggers are smashing their knuckles against the machine, but rest assured if I or anyone else walked into a Golden Tee tournament and started using this technique, all the people who keep saying "shut your stupid face" and claiming it doesn't work would turn right around and insist I stop "cheating".

Case closed.
MaxVolume:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on August 27, 2012, 11:08:43 pm ---
<sour grapes>


--- End quote ---

Thanks for proving my point without me ever having to hang around with a bunch of sweaty drunks at a GT tournament.  First everyone says my method is pathetically inadequate, but now that I've explained the physics behind it, it's all "that's cheating!" since it DOES work.

"You mean you have to use your HANDS???  That's like a baby's toy!"  :hissy:

Get a life.
ABACABB:
@Max seriously?? flick a tiny piece of paper and that is your comparison to a trackball??  That is not even close to the same thing.  A trackball has much more size, weight and volume than a tiny piece of paper and you don't flick a trackball with your finger like you were describing with the paper.   :banghead:


Now I have a real test for you to try and this one actually involves playing Golden Tee - one of the reasons this entire debate is happening.  Play a round of GT and when you are far enough from the green to use a 7 iron, select that club.  Now use your thumb roll method and make this shot.  roll the trackball as hard as you can using your thumbs.  When the ball lands on the green you should be able to get the ball to roll backwards about 5 yards.  I have tried this, to be fair, and I cannot get the trackball to spin fast enough to get the backspin on the ball that I get by rolling my entire hand over the ball.  As I said in an earlier post, to be great at this game you need to utilize backspin. 

Another easy test would be to select a 2 player game.  You play both golfers (so the wind speed and direction would be identical) use your thumbs with one and give it an honest hand roll with the other.  See which golfer drives further.  This is really the only way to give an answer to this debate. 

For me, rolling my thumbs doesn't even come close and I cannot achieve backspin on my shots.  Not being able to utilize these built in features is about the same as playing Street Fighter but not using any special moves - just the standard punches and kicks from the buttons.

Check out this page from Golden Tee's website.  About half way down the page there is a "Did You Know" section.  Take a look at that.......

http://www.goldentee.com/gt/GT/TheGame/HowToPlay/gt_backspin.jsp
wcndave:
On the original game I used the thumbs method.  This gave 95% of the distance, and much better control of direction, spin, slice etc.

I believe you "can" get slightly further with whole hand, however the increase vs risk was only worth it on rare occasions where you just absolutely needed that extra few yards.

not tried with a home made cab as i am still building one, however the  ball seems lighter, so i think thumbs will be the same.

before this got heater, the OP question was how far away from screen.  I am doing the centre of the ball at 30cm from the bottom front of the screen, and the screen leans back at 30deg.  made a cardboard mockup quickly to check and that seemed fine.

however everyone plays differently, so take a cardboard box for your screen, and try it out.  get it right for you.  Just when testing on cardboard try not to hit the trackball so hard it flies across the room and breaks.

then people might say you are all thumbs... :D
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