Use a projector rather than a screen for displays & marquees

[griffindodd]

Just wondering if anyone has played with this idea.

The lack of 4:3 LCDs pushes people to using big heavy dangerous CRTs that could kill you and all your children.....ok a bit of an overstatement, but you see where I am going with this.

For under $100 you can pick up a used 4:3 projector on the Bay of E with a resolution of 800x600. Surely it would be trivial to mount one of these in the bottom of a cab and have it back project onto a 22 degree slanted screen (obviously the projector would have to match that angle to avoid distortion). You could probably fill your whole Bezel area with picture and of course a projected image doesn't have an issues with angle of view the way LCD's/LED's do plus it doesn't weight 40,000000 lbs

Also in the same vein you could mount a projector in the top of your full depth cab to do a digital marquee.

I'd give this a try myself but I'm already up to my tonsils in my current build.

Thoughts?

[Slippyblade]

Hm.  I like this idea and might need to try it.  You could even do a slim cab by projecting onto a mirror.  Might be worth a try.

[shponglefan]

The main hurdle you are going to run into with this idea is the screen size and minimum throw distance of the projector.  For example, on my Epson HD projector to get the equivilant size (at maximum zoom) of a 27" widescreen monitor, it requires ~34 inches of throw distance (distance from lens to screen).  Given the size of a typical full-sized cab, that means you'll be projecting all the way to the back of the cabinet.

The other hurdle is heat, since projectors give out a lot of it.  You'd need adequate ventilation for cooling.

A more feasible usage might be projector mounted in a pedestal-style setup.

edited: Meant to say maximum, not minimum zoon.

[CoryBee]

A more feasible usage might be projector mounted in a pedestal-style setup.

I had an idea for a pedestal arcade projector setup. Where the projector would be mounted in the pedestal. Would be great to bring around to friends, a party, etc.

[mgb]

The main hurdle you are going to run into with this idea is the screen size and minimum throw distance of the projector.  For example, on my Epson HD projector to get the equivilant size (at maximum zoom) of a 27" widescreen monitor, it requires ~34 inches of throw distance (distance from lens to screen).  Given the size of a typical full-sized cab, that means you'll be projecting all the way to the back of the cabinet.

The other hurdle is heat, since projectors give out a lot of it.  You'd need adequate ventilation for cooling.

A more feasible usage might be projector mounted in a pedestal-style setup.

edited: Meant to say maximum, not minimum zoon.

I agree, projectors need to be a certain distance away, so this can really make for a larger cabinet.

[griffindodd]

Yep obviously you wouldn't try and project from the back of the cab due to the required throw but it would be possible projecting from the ground up to a 22 degree play field.

[DaveMMR]

Good idea if you design your gaming rig specifically for the projector; but for regular cabs I still think using a LCD (or even CRT - they are not that heavy or dangerous) is a better option

[shponglefan]

Yep obviously you wouldn't try and project from the back of the cab due to the required throw but it would be possible projecting from the ground up to a 22 degree play field.

Not sure how that's supposed to work, though.  The lower the angle you are projecting from, the more downward angle required for the screen to avoid keystone distortion (projectors can compensate, but only so much).  But screens are typically angled upwards for proper viewing by the player(s).  So it seems like either way, the picture is going to be distored from the player POV.

[PL1]

Any decent projector will have a vertical keystone adjustment, many will have a horizontal keystone adjustment as well.

Some projectors can bounce off a 45 degree mirror onto a rear projection screen like this.

Screen - - - \
Screen - - -|-\
.                | |
.                | |
.                | |
.          Projector

The fan noise on a regular projector might be distracting for many people.

The other huge consideration is the life-span and cost of replacement bulbs.

Plug "pico projectors" into forums search for a 1/2 dozen threads on the topic of smaller projectors that may be closer to what you're looking for.


Scott

[shponglefan]

Any decent projector will have a vertical keystone adjustment, many will have a horizontal keystone adjustment as well.

But keystone adjustment has its limitations.  I doubt any projector would be able to compensate for the angles required to shoot from the bottom of a cab like the OP suggests.

Some projectors can bounce off a 45 degree mirror onto a rear projection screen like this.

Screen - - - \
Screen - - -|-\
.                | |
.                | |
.                | |
.          Projector

Realistically, that's probably the best usage of a projector in a cab.  But by that point, it seems easier to just a regular monitor.

[PL1]

But keystone adjustment has its limitations.  I doubt any projector would be able to compensate for the angles required to shoot from the bottom of a cab like the OP suggests.

Of course there are limits.  That's why I suggested both pico projectors and the mirror solution.  You can compensate for keystoning by the position/angle of the projector and/or the position/angle of the mirror.  You just have to work out the details and kinks before you build the cab and mount the parts.  Not worth the effort IMHO, but . . . to each their own. 

Some projectors can bounce off a 45 degree mirror onto a rear projection screen like this.

Screen - - - \
Screen - - -|-\
.                | |
.                | |
.                | |
.          Projector

Realistically, that's probably the best usage of a projector in a cab.  But by that point, it seems easier to just a regular monitor.

For the main screen in a cab, I whole-heartedly agree.  The only application that I can think of where a projector might be better is for a marquee display.  The ultra-wide LCDs for that are cost prohibitive, per the earlier referenced "pico projector" and related threads.


Scott

[Truecade]

I have thought of this idea in the past as well.  For example, using multiple pico projectors to achieve an ultra-wide screen setup (Darius, Ninja Warriors, etc) with zero bezel overlap.  Unfortunately, for the price of a decent projector (or a few mini projectors) you could just get a large plasma or LCD TV and mount it in the back of a wide cabinet.   

If anyone ever decides to  build a cab with an internal projector, I would be really interested to see how it turns out.   

[MTPPC]

This idea has great potential for the backglass on a fullsize pinball simulator. The problem they suffer is a lack of large 4:3 monitors for the square backglass.

[macattack]

all sounds doable, but what about the replacement cost of the bulbs on projectors, usually thats the bit that really stings?

[griffindodd]

all sounds doable, but what about the replacement cost of the bulbs on projectors, usually thats the bit that really stings?

LED projectors are getting cheaper every day with bulb life of over 20,000 hours, so it's becoming less of an issue.

I may consider using a 16:9 projector in an upward shooting box to build a full size pinball cab, abviously it would look a bit different that a traditional cab, but different is what I like

[ark_ader]

It is a great idea, but it soon wears off.  I have to be very careful what I play on the projector as it invokes considerable motion sickness,  HOTD is a prime example.

Most of the time I play Mame on a 22 inch, but I do like the odd X Arcade with the projector with a 100" screen.  The projector is way back, you are not getting full brightness and it is better on the eyes.

Pedestal Mame is an interesting idea, but again the projector will have to be mounted on the ceiling or away from the CP area.  Heat, noise and player vibration on the controls will shorten the life of your projector and at £135 a bulb it gets pretty expensive.  Stick with a 22" and mount it on the back of your pedestal, and while you are at it, make use of the pedestal interior with the best consoles money can buy.   

[ChadTower]

In a dark environment you could use any light source to project in a closed cab.  Plenty of games use a CRT to project off a mirror and it works well. 

[griffindodd]

Well, in the spirit of eating my own dog food I picked up an older 4:3 1024x768 short throw projector on eBay just now for $37, yep thirty seven whole spondoolies. It can project an image of 60" from 2.4' so let's see if I can rustle up something in the name of science



Part Number:PLC-XE40.
 

General
 Device Type LCD projector .
 Built-in components Speaker .
 Dimensions (WxDxH) 12.6 in x 11.5 in x 5.8 in .
 Weight 7.3 lbs .
 Color Orange .
 Features Freeze frame .
 
Display
 Image Brightness 1500.0 ANSI lumens .
 Image Contrast Ratio 400:1 .
 Image Size 59.8 in - 80.0 in .
 Projection Distance 2.5 ft - 3.4 ft .
 Uniformity 80.0 % .
 Digital Zoom Factor 16x .
 Resolution XGA - 1024 x 768 .
 Native Aspect Ratio 4:3 .
 Video Bandwidth 140.0 MHz .
 Color Support 16.7 million colors .
 Max Sync Rate (V x H) 100.0 Hz x 100.0 KHz .
 
Lens / Optical
 Focus Type Manual .
 Lens Aperture F/1.8 .
 Keystone Correction Type Digital .
 Keystone Correction Direction Vertical .
 Vertical Keystone Correction -20 / +20 .
 
Video Input
 Analog Video Format PAL,
 SECAM,
 NTSC 4.43,
 PAL-M,
 NTSC,
 PAL-N .
 Analog Video Signal Component video,
 RGB,
 S-Video,
 Composite video .
 Video Modes 720p,
 480i,
 1035i,
 576i,
 480p,
 576p,
 1080i .

 
Expansion / Connectivity
 Expansion Slot(s) None .
 Interfaces 1.0 x Composite video input - 15 pin HD D-Sub (HD-15) X 2,
 1.0 x Audio line-out - 4 pin mini-DIN,
 1.0 x Serial RS-232 - RCA,
 1.0 x Component video / RGB input - RCA,
 1.0 x USB - 4 pin USB Type B,
 1.0 x Audio line-in - Mini-phone stereo 3.5 mm,
 1.0 x Audio line-in - 8 pin mini-DIN,
 1.0 x VGA input / output - Mini-phone stereo 3.5 mm,
 1.0 x S-video input - 15 pin HD D-Sub (HD-15)

[PL1]

Glad you found a $37 deal on a projector. 

Pg 6 of the manual says that you shouldn't project up, down, turned on the side, or more than 20 degrees of tilt.    Looks like you'll need a 2 mirror 45-degree bounce, ceiling (upside down) mount, and rear mode. (Pg 45)

screen-----\
               |
               |
projector--/

Pg 2 warns you not to lose the remote, since it is required to operate the system.  This is touted as a "security feature". 

Also, replacement lamps will cost you about double what you spent on the projector.


Scott

[griffindodd]

Yep I got a remote for 16 bucks. As for all the do and donts I will just see what I can get away with. It will be a fun proof of concept experiment to try and make a video marquee

[griffindodd]

$37?  Damn, and I was about to write something cynical about how using a projector for a marquee was frittering away technology that could be used for stuff like watching Cindy Crawford workout videos on your bedroom wall.

I'll see if I can get her on the marquee for you Jim

[shponglefan]

Well, in the spirit of eating my own dog food I picked up an older 4:3 1024x768 short throw projector on eBay just now for $37, yep thirty seven whole spondoolies. It can project an image of 60" from 2.4' so let's see if I can rustle up something in the name of science

Sweet.  Looking forward to see how this turns out.

[Lilwolf]

I bought one years ago to do just that, but ended up using it as a tv instead for a year+.  But bought another one while still having some time on the bulb (the real issue).  The initial idea was a pedistal for live action street fighter games.  My wife liked that it could be moved into a corner when I'm not using it.

But now I'm putting it in the basement (from ceiling) and a computer for a standup gun cabinet.  I had it almost set but had some computer problems (when loading the drivers for the guns, I couldn't get the framerates anymore... got a new used cmputer for it now). 

But I like the idea of standing, with two guns...  And John Wooing a 6 foot screen of 8 bit pixel birds and see how big the dog is that jumps up between rounds.

But bulb is the issue.  But these days, if you don't worry too much about the actual projector, when the bulb dies, you can probably find another projector on ebay for cheaper then the bulb.

[griffindodd]

Yeah they are getting cheaper all the time. The bulb for this projector runs about 80 bucks which isn't much for 2000 or more hour'sjuse don't leave it on when you aren't playing it

[emphatic]

I'll see if I can get her on the marquee for you Jim

 

[griffindodd]

So finally I got around to doing the test with the bargain bin projector and the results are pretty impressive...



The image is 27" wide and the total distance from the back of the projector housing to the surface of the screen is 27", not far at all, certainly something you could fit in a full size cab.

Something to chew on don't you think?

 

[yotsuya]

You're not rear-projecting that, are you?

[griffindodd]

You're not rear-projecting that, are you?

Not in this image but you could just as easily, I hear plastic shower curtain makes an excellent rear projection material.

[griffindodd]

Next step in this experiment is to try decasing the projector to reduce size a little and also convert the bulb to an LED. You can get warm white 6500k LED arrays rated up to 8000+ lumen on ebay for about $25 with a life span of 20,000 to 50,000 hours. You'll need a $30 driver for it and some kind of power from your cab to fire it up. You also have to trick your projector into thinking the regular bulb is there by picking up the check pulse on the projector.

But, in theory, for about $100 you could put together an LED powered rear projection video marquee that would fit in the depth of a regular cab.

If you want to spend about $260 this little unit would do it out of the box, notice the lumen output and the minimum projection distance, perfect for this kind of application...
http://x-par.en.alibaba.com/product/584136307-213560478/Full_HD_Video_Pocket_Mini_LED_Small_LCD_Projector.html

[MKFan4Life]

So finally I got around to doing the test with the bargain bin projector and the results are pretty impressive...



The image is 27" wide and the total distance from the back of the projector housing to the surface of the screen is 27", not far at all, certainly something you could fit in a full size cab.

Something to chew on don't you think?

 

Hate to reply to such an old topic, but this is EXACTLY what I am going to attempt soon.  I am building a MAME cabinet and my nephew bought me a very cheap projector as a birthday gift about 2 years ago.  I haven't even unboxed it as I have a huge LCD TV in the living room and nowhere to set up the projector, but I told him I'd try to incorporate it somehow into my MAME cabinet design.  The marquee idea is exactly what I was thinking of doing.

The little projector is called a Lightblast Entertainment projector by Shift3 I think.  Not very high-res, but says it can create up to a 120" projection at 6 feet.  I figured at a short throw if it would focus correctly, it would make a bright image that is small and would be ideal for marquee use with some trial and error to get it just right.

Did you ever do anything more on this idea?  Please reply with pics if you did.  THANKS!

[ark_ader]

Sounds like a real fire risk.

It would be better to find a cheap 16" wide screen LCD and use a mirror.  Cheaper and less of a fire risk.

[smite_of_bloodstone]

Hello.  I know that this is an older post, but I was wondering if anyone had had any success with an arcade cabinet featuring a projector?

I was able to find a 6 player 1992 X-Men board, and especially because of the dual screens, I was hoping to incorporate 2 not-too-expensive projectors (which may also help me keep the final form factor to a minimum).

Thank you in advance for any pointers