NEW PRODUCT: Ultimarc ServoStik. 4-8 way joystick with powered restrictor.

[jasonbar]

Splendid product!

Can you comment on the throw distance? With my Mag-Stik Plus, the throws are rather short, which I believe to be an inherent issue with any switchable joystick. Just checking to see if you were able to improve the throw on this product.

Thanks,
-Jason

[Mysterioii]

which I believe to be an inherent issue with any switchable joystick.

Fair question but I wouldn't expect that to be the case.  The bigger the hole in the restrictor, switchable or not, the further the actuator has to move to hit the switches.  It would really depend more on the overall geometry of the joystick in question but I can't see it being a limiting factor of switchable joysticks at all.  You're just rotating a plastic disk. 

[Le Chuck]

Please don't judge the throw of all rotatable joys by the magstick plus. That is an extreme example of short throw. The GGG Omni 2 is standard in throw and there is no reason this mod would shorten throw on a regular stick.

[RetroBorg]

Splendid product!

Can you comment on the throw distance? With my Mag-Stik Plus, the throws are rather short, which I believe to be an inherent issue with any switchable joystick. Just checking to see if you were able to improve the throw on this product.

Thanks,
-Jason

The joystick is a J-Stik (Sanwa JLW-TM-8 type), check out the Retro Blast review and the joystick comparison table.

http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/reviews/joysticks/ultimarc_jstik.html

http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/reviews/joysticks/Joystick%20Roundup.pdf

[AndyWarne]

You are a madman Andy - that's awesome! 
Any way of being able to manually fire the motor to switch for JAMMA setup (i.e. via an outside button)?

Yes we have alternative firmware which enables the USB cable wires to be connected to a buttons instead, to control switching.

This looks really cool Andy, but I don't suppose it's configurable for both USB and button control simultaneously?  I have several console emulators in my cabinet, I can envision wanting to have my MAME frontend set up to automatically toggle the controller using the controller info but still might (occasionally) want to manually toggle to 4-way mode if I'm playing some old console game that I think it might be better suited for.  (I know, I could start a big discussion with people that don't think console games are fitting for an arcade cab and should only be played with a gamepad etc., but it is what it is).

I don't know what uC you're using and if you have free GPIO, but here are some features I can see being of use.  If the hardware doesn't support it now perhaps you'd consider it for a future rev.

Software control to command it to 4-way or 8-way (already present) as well as a "soft toggle" to invert the current state.
A software means to query the current state.
GPIO pins configured as input to command it to 4-way, 8-way or toggle whatever the current state is...  available concurrent with the USB control, not instead of it.
GPIO pins configured as output to indicate the current state.

With these features I could for example have MAME automatically set it to 4-way or 8-way as it believes is correct for the current game.  Then I could have a hidden (or not-so-hidden) button on my CP to toggle the state, in case I for example want to try a game with the "incorrect" setup to see how it feels, or if I want to toggle things for a console game.  With the 2 output pins I could for example use a hollow shaft (if/when they're available for this stick) and perhaps have the joystick illuminated blue when in 8-way mode and red when in 4-way mode.  Alternately, indicator lighting could be built into the CP if that's the user's preference or in the absence of hollow shafts.

Just some thoughts sir.  This is very interesting.

But... If you are using Mame this suggests you must have some kind of keyboard encoder installed. So why not simply connect two extra buttons to it and program them as F4 and F8? Or use inbuilt shift functions and already-existing controls?

Not really sure why you would want to query the state. If its set to 4-way for example and you set it to 4-way again, this would not cause any issues.

Each connector added to the board adds to the cost and it would only be worthwhile if they are connectors which would generally be used.

Andy

[Mysterioii]

Thanks for the reply Andy.  I know I'm probably over thinking things, and by all means I'm not trying to find fault.  I'm just thinking in terms of flexibility, things I *might* want to do with it...

You're right, I probably don't need the dedicated input pins, that could be accomplished through the keyboard encoder... but I'm pretty sure all the inputs on my current ipac are full, plus (unlike most people, I think) I actually have several different keyboard mappings set up for different things and I'd have to tweak them all.  Not a big deal, so long as I've got some free inputs. 

What I *would* find most useful would be a couple of output pins indicating the state so I could easily drive indicator LEDs, which I personally would use to illuminate the sticks one color when they're in 4-way mode and another in 8-way mode.  I'd also like a built in toggle function so I only need one button on my CP, to simply invert the state irrelevant of what the current state is.  It looks like right now it supports commanding it explicitly to one state or the other but has no "toggle"? 

The ability to query the state would allow me to implement a toggle myself...  query the current state then command it to go to the other state, if the device doesn't implement it's own toggle.  Again, not critical, but I'm an EE so I tend to overthink things.     Many people probably wouldn't use these functions, but I think they'd be cool.

I agree that adding parts increases costs and it's desirable to keep that to a minimum....  if there are free GPIO pins on the uC you might consider making them available as solder pads or through holes on a future rev, or run them out to a footprint for an unpopulated header.  The majority of users might have no need of the functionality but I for one don't mind doing a little soldering to use an advanced feature so long as it's supported.   

[Gray_Area]

What I *would* find most useful would be a couple of output pins indicating the state so I could easily drive indicator LEDs...

I might think an illum kit (pac drive or GGG unit) would be programmable for this.

[Mysterioii]

What I *would* find most useful would be a couple of output pins indicating the state so I could easily drive indicator LEDs...

I might think an illum kit (pac drive or GGG unit) would be programmable for this.

No doubt, but why go through the added expense and jump through the software hoops if the device at hand has the capability?  He's using some sort of uC with a USB interface as the controller... I assume it's the (I think 28-pin) surface mount chip in the pic.  I guess the DIP chip is an amplifier for driving the motor.  28 pins, I would have to assume there's some free GPIO there.  Heck I'd solder some wire wrap wire right to the pads on the chip if the firmware supported the state-reflecting outputs I'm suggesting.

I can easily see wanting to use an LED indicator for the joystick state even on an otherwise non-illuminated panel.  A pacdrive is $30 and an LEDWiz is $45.  Why absorb that extra expense if the hardware is already capable of it and the software to accomplish it would be a near-trivial firmware change? 

Again, I'm not being negative.  I like this a lot and think it's a lot cleaner than the servo hack (and THAT'S a fine solution in it's own right).  I'm an EE just as I presume Andy is...  I'm just making some suggestions in what is intented to be a brotherly spirit...   

[Gray_Area]

He's using some sort of uC with a USB interface as the controller... I assume it's the (I think 28-pin) surface mount chip in the pic.  I guess the DIP chip is an amplifier for driving the motor.  28 pins, I would have to assume there's some free GPIO there.  Heck I'd solder some wire wrap wire right to the pads on the chip if the firmware supported the state-reflecting outputs I'm suggesting.

That bit right there is the stuff you need to be saying, in question format, to Andy. No more, no less.

[Mysterioii]

Thanks for telling me what to say...          I am making good-faith friendly suggestions as to ways that an already good product could be in my opinion enhanced and improved with I believe minimal effort.  Perhaps nobody else would find value in my suggestions.  I think they would be useful.  I'm throwing it out there in what I presume is a "from one EE to another" friendly discourse.

Now, if Andy's controller does indeed have free GPIO and he'd be willing to do a firmware tweak and tell me which legs to solder to, that would be great (for me).  Not everyone would be willing to solder right to the surface mount pads so the suggestion remains as a potential mod to a next rev of the controller board, if there is one.  (It still does not address the toggle question).

If I've breeched any protocol by making these suggestions in a product announcement thread, I apologize.  I am very fond of Ultimarc products and I think this product as it is now is already a huge improvement over manually-switched joysticks or the servo mod. 

[Le Chuck]

I think this product as it is now is already a huge improvement over manually-switched joysticks or the servo mod.

The servo mod can control up to six different servos and provide push button toggle functionality from a single $20 controller.  That is a $15 controller savings that operates 4 additional units allowing a builder to potentially do a rotating screen and four players worth of auto switching servo modded controllers all from a single control unit that is already supported in both MALA and to some extent Hyperspin thanks to the work of DaOld Man and Terrahawk.  I think it's a bit early to discount the servo mod especially since that is exactly what this is a take on.  As previously stated I'm excited by the new design and look forward to seeing it in action but I look to the horizon for more holistic answer when it comes to cab automation.         

[Mysterioii]

I think this product as it is now is already a huge improvement over manually-switched joysticks or the servo mod.

The servo mod can control up to six different servos and provide push button toggle functionality from a single $20 controller.  That is a $15 controller savings that operates 4 additional units allowing a builder to potentially do a rotating screen and four players worth of auto switching servo modded controllers all from a single control unit that is already supported in both MALA and to some extent Hyperspin thanks to the work of DaOld Man and Terrahawk.  I think it's a bit early to discount the servo mod especially since that is exactly what this is a take on.  As previously stated I'm excited by the new design and look forward to seeing it in action but I look to the horizon for more holistic answer when it comes to cab automation.       

Haha man I'm rubbin' some people the wrong way methinks.      My comment was more intended as "a huge improvement over manually switched joysticks" and I tacked on the thing about the servo mod as an afterthought.  I see it as an improvement as a nice, contained drop-in package...  I like the physical implementation and the possibilities provided by the control interface (even though some of those possibilities are only in my head).   I am not intending to discount the servo mod; it's actually pretty cool and since I've got two magstick pluses sitting in boxes awaiting a CP rebuild I've been considering implementing it.  Also when I said I considered it an improvement I am not considering the overall cost at all....  you make good points there.  Certainly that would be a key consideration when planning your CP but I was speaking only to the product and it's functionality, not it's cost.

I think you said earlier in the thread that you'd been working on something like this in your garage recently too...  I'd actually also been thinking through a possible implementation for auto-switching.     I think it could be done even cheaper and simpler...  but, I haven't gotten even close to making a prototype and who knows if I ever will, for all I know my ideas might be entirely non-practical.

Cheers bro.  I like your work, wish I had that micro-Star Wars cab!   

[Gray_Area]

Thanks for telling me what to say...         

I'm just sayin that brevity and concision do wonders.

[Mysterioii]

Thanks for telling me what to say...         

I'm just sayin that brevity and concision do wonders.

Haha yeah honestly I've been hearing that my whole career, but I'm a details guy and I'm too old to change.     Cheers to you too, man.   

[wweumina]

He's using some sort of uC with a USB interface as the controller... I assume it's the (I think 28-pin) surface mount chip in the pic.  I guess the DIP chip is an amplifier for driving the motor.  28 pins, I would have to assume there's some free GPIO there.  Heck I'd solder some wire wrap wire right to the pads on the chip if the firmware supported the state-reflecting outputs I'm suggesting.

That bit right there is the stuff you need to be saying, in question format, to Andy. No more, no less.

Really? I don't think this was really put the right way, but I'm not going to tell you how to post...

[arzoo]

LEDBlinky will support the ServoStik in the next release.

[Woodshop Flunky]

This looks great Andy! 

I'm going to have to pick me up one of these.

[Dos Equis]

Curious to know what the feel is like when compared to the Mag-Stik Plus. Is it smoother. I find the Mag-Stik Plus cool but clumsy (not responsive enough) for game play.

Thanks Andy!

[Kritter5x]

I have an obviously newbie question regarding this.

A lot of cabinets have a seperate 4-way stick for some games, in addition to having the usual two 8-way sticks. Will using this essentially eliminate the need to buy / implement a seperate 4-way joystick in my cabinet, and instead implement a few buttons to control the switching? I'm currently building my first cab and still designing the control panel. The less joysticks I have to have on it the better (in theory I suppose)

Thanks in advance

[AndyWarne]

I have an obviously newbie question regarding this.

A lot of cabinets have a seperate 4-way stick for some games, in addition to having the usual two 8-way sticks. Will using this essentially eliminate the need to buy / implement a seperate 4-way joystick in my cabinet, and instead implement a few buttons to control the switching? I'm currently building my first cab and still designing the control panel. The less joysticks I have to have on it the better (in theory I suppose)

Thanks in advance

This does eliminate this requirement. So the cabinet can be as per an original which of course would not have that extra stick. There is no need for any additional buttons to switch, although you could have if you wanted to. The best way though would be to configure your front end to perform the switchover then it would be totally automatic.

[AndyWarne]

Curious to know what the feel is like when compared to the Mag-Stik Plus. Is it smoother. I find the Mag-Stik Plus cool but clumsy (not responsive enough) for game play.

Thanks Andy!

The Mag-Stik is a very short throw stick. Its a very subjective issue as to preference of a short or longer throw stick but this is a longer throw type, as per Sanwa or similar sticks.

[MacGyver]

So I wanted to see just how different the mounts for a JLF and these were, so I scaled the drawings to proper size and then overlaid the JLF over the new ServoStiks, the JLF is in red. 

It looks like I can use the same t-nuts for each.  I was worried that I would have to tear up my CPO overlay to mount these when they came,  it appears I won't.

[Kritter5x]

I have an obviously newbie question regarding this.

A lot of cabinets have a seperate 4-way stick for some games, in addition to having the usual two 8-way sticks. Will using this essentially eliminate the need to buy / implement a seperate 4-way joystick in my cabinet, and instead implement a few buttons to control the switching? I'm currently building my first cab and still designing the control panel. The less joysticks I have to have on it the better (in theory I suppose)

Thanks in advance

This does eliminate this requirement. So the cabinet can be as per an original which of course would not have that extra stick. There is no need for any additional buttons to switch, although you could have if you wanted to. The best way though would be to configure your front end to perform the switchover then it would be totally automatic.

Oh, excellent! Thanks for the speedy reply. Once i've nutted out my control panel design these will likely be the sticks I use.

[Stub]

I am excited for the U360 mod.

In fact if you sell a U360, with the servo, hollow shaft with rotating connector for top-fire and LED, and a rotation optical kit, you can just have my money. All of it.

[MacGyver]

Just got mine in, will report back after I get them mounted (might take awhile, I have to route the panel.  Thanks for the quick turn around on my order.

Now I'm off to find some hollow JLW shafts 

[Frostillicus]

Now I'm off to find some hollow JLW shafts 

If you find them, let me know. I emailed Andy separately and he said they are 10mm in diameter, in both the visible and non-visible sections, and that this is different from Sanwa.

I'd like to figure out an RGB balltop solution somehow. 

[MacGyver]

They work great, but the mode is backwards.  I have probably done something wrong, 4 makes it 8, and 8 makes it 4.
When it's set to 4, the lever is towards the motor side, is this right?

This isn't affecting its use in any way.  I simply tell 4-way games to run 8-way, and vice versa,  I'm more worried I've mounted the motor wrong.

I will Frosti, ditto if you find them.

[millercentral]

Just reverse the wires and that should fix it...

[MacGyver]

I didn't know how it knows it's at the end of the movement, so I didn't want to just start flipping wires around and maybe burn something out.
I suspect it's a current draw thing, so it shouldn't matter, but I didn't want to take any chances.

On a side note, wouldn't sleeving my current JLF hollow shafts get them to the proper size?  I just was thinking, because those might be easier to find, the hardest parts have been done, the threads, clip-end, hole down the middle, now it pretty much just a width problem.  The lengths are the same right?

[AndyWarne]

For the people who requested a way of switching the stick between 4 and 8 way with a switch or buttons rather than from a PC this is now implemented.

The control board can be set to "hardware mode" using the test utility. Then 2 buttons or a toggle switch can be wired up, to switch 4-8 way. The page www.ultimarc.com/servostik.html has been updated.

[arzoo]

The lastest version of LEDBlinky (5.1) now supports the ServoStik. ServoStik(s) will be switched to 4-way mode for 2-way and 4-way games, all other games will switch to 8-way.

[DNA Dan]

So has this been adapted to U360 sticks yet? Seems like it should bolt right on. Do you sell just the motor and restrictor plate for those of us looking to upgrade sticks we already own?

[pocketpal]

[...]this will also work with the Ultrastik 360 giving a fully contactless joystick with mapping AND mechanical restriction. Again, thats down the line.

 
I sincerely hope this means that availability of a retrofit kit for U360s is imminent!  After long periods each of no restrictor, and then the round restrictor, I finally put the 4/8-way restrictor on mine, because I decided that, for me, there is just no substitution for the feel of actual restricted movement.  That being said, it is an inelegant pain to have to switch it back and forth manually, so this looks to be the perfect solution for me!

[AndyWarne]

Yes we will be offering an upgrade kit. The reason we have not done this yet is we dont yet have a mass-produced restrictor on the Servostik, each one requires some hand machining.

But we have a large number of these on the way and should be available in a couple of weeks.

[jasonbar]

Just ordered a pair of sticks & 1 driver board. I'm looking forward to top-switchable 4-way/8-way (via 2 buttons that I'll implement on top of my panel) sticks that have a longer throw than the 2 Magstik Plus sticks that I've been using for years! :]

Thanks,
-Jason

[Gray_Area]

Just ordered a pair of sticks & 1 driver board. I'm looking forward to top-switchable 4-way/8-way (via 2 buttons that I'll implement on top of my panel) sticks that have a longer throw than the 2 Magstik Plus sticks that I've been using for years! :]

Thanks,
-Jason

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, the only thing I loved about the T-sticks was the throw. The microswitch resistance blew, though. I wonder whether this could be fitted to a Wico....

Looking foward to your review.

[chopperthedog]

Just ordered a pair of sticks & 1 driver board. I'm looking forward to top-switchable 4-way/8-way (via 2 buttons that I'll implement on top of my panel) sticks that have a longer throw than the 2 Magstik Plus sticks that I've been using for years! :]

Thanks,
-Jason

Are you using these on a mame cabinet? If so it's a piece of cake getting it set up to read the controls.dat and have them switch based upon the game that is launched.


good day.

[jasonbar]

Are you using these on a mame cabinet? If so it's a piece of cake getting it set up to read the controls.dat and have them switch based upon the game that is launched.

MAME cab indeed. Piece of cake? Not for a mechanical engineer. I use AutoHotKey & .BAT files to manage my launching of MAME (multiple revs w/ multiple arguments, depending on game) & DAPHNE from a single MaLa front end--can one of these existing tools be used to read the controls.dat file & move the restrictor accordingly? Are all controls.dat entries correct? I recall some being incorrect...(?) Can somebody spoonfeed this piece of cake? This is over my head...

Thanks,
-Jason

[chopperthedog]

From Ultimac's site you can get the little piece of software called joytray. With that you can just use F4 (4-way) or F8 (8-way) in addition to that you can add the argument for the joytray exe for each mode to your files. For my purpose (mame'd space invaders cocktail) I used a pair of sticks, joytray.exe and this plug-in http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,113162.0.html with mala to read the control.dat and launch the appropriate argument upon game start. Now my setup is only being used on a vertical screen with cocktail flipping so I'm only dealing with maybe 60 games.


good day.

[Nephasth]

MAME cab indeed. Piece of cake? Not for a mechanical engineer. I use AutoHotKey & .BAT files to manage my launching of MAME (multiple revs w/ multiple arguments, depending on game) & DAPHNE from a single MaLa front end--can one of these existing tools be used to read the controls.dat file & move the restrictor accordingly? Are all controls.dat entries correct? I recall some being incorrect...(?) Can somebody spoonfeed this piece of cake? This is over my head...

Thanks,
-Jason

The lastest version of LEDBlinky (5.1) now supports the ServoStik. ServoStik(s) will be switched to 4-way mode for 2-way and 4-way games, all other games will switch to 8-way.

How's that for cake? LEDBlinky is an amazing tool.