LCD/LED recommendations?

[fantoboy]

Looking to buy a LCD or LED TV/monitor for a slim arcade cabinet.  Does anyone recommend anything that they bought?  Looking for a good picture on something that will sleep when there's no input and default to the last input that was selected or to whatever input has something plugged into.  So basically something that I won't have to change the inputs or turn on manually.  Low lag and good viewing angles a must.  VGA input would be nice, but not a necessity and of course a decent price.  I'm thinking between 27" and 32".  Thanks!

[rCadeGaming]

Low lag and good viewing angles a must.

Low lag should be your biggest concern.  You'll need something from this list:

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database.145141/

A few of those monitors are easy to find, the TVs not so much anymore.  Low lag TVs aren't really being made right now.  If anyone knows any to add to the list, please do so.

[Blanka]

LED is also LCD btw, it just has a different (more ugly) backlight.
Don't hook up through VGA, it ADS lag, as the monitor has to convert an analogue signal. Go DVI/HDMI.
If you want good auto-input, go monitor, not TV.
And no DELL. They are horrible on the input-selection too. They don't do auto switching.
I used many screens in my projects, and from best to good they are: LG W2600HP, Acer B273HLOymidh, Acer AL2723W, HP LP2475W, HP LP2065. Guess they are all EU only (with exception of the last one mentioned). USA does not want good screens.

[amendonz]

Get a Panasonic IPS 32"

[Blanka]

BTW, 32 inch does not fit in a normal size cab...
27 inch already needs a slightly wider 70cm cab.
But maybe you have Pac-Mat aspirations
http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/4.html
That control panel matches 32 inch at least.

[fantoboy]

I'm building a cabinet from scratch.  I'm inspired by the MVC skinny cabinet on this forum:


I have a 19" laying around here.  It's a Samsung tv from an old 360 kiosk.  It actually does what I need it to, but it seems a little too small.

[drventure]

And no DELL. They are horrible on the input-selection too. They don't do auto switching.

I've had really good luck with the dells I use. But they're all older models

Specifically the 2405fpw, and 2005 fpw (though the 2407 and 2007 are pretty much the same).

Apparently, they switched to a different type of panel around 08-09 that is not near a good, though.

But I still see the older units from time to time.

[rCadeGaming]

Personally, I wouldn't consider any digital screen that hasn't been definitively tested for lag.  See the method on the page I linked to, not the "Rock Band" method, or people's questionable perception of "how it feels."

[fantoboy]

Check out this one one sale:
http://www.justdeals.com/?utm_source=constant-contact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CC-7-17-12%20

It lists a response time, think I can trust it?

When shopping for a tv or monitor, is there a way to tell if it's going to sleep when there's nothing being sent to the input?

edit: THis seems like a winner to me:
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-VS248H-P-24-Inch-Full-HD-Monitor/dp/B0058UUR6E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1342538788&sr=8-2&keywords=vh248h

[MonMotha]

It lists a response time, think I can trust it?

Without looking at anything else, I can tell you that the answer is no.

The "response time" numbers are largely fabricated.  What little bearing they do have on reality is of limited use due to the fact that latency is not included in the number.  The "response time" only measures the time it takes for the display to change from one state to another.  With the crazy low numbers like 2ms, it's usually something stupid like 40% gray to 60% gray.  This may give you some hint of how much "ghosting" the monitor has, but it tells you little more.

[Blanka]

With the crazy low numbers like 2ms, it's usually something stupid like 40% gray to 60% gray.

On the contrary... Little changes are MUCH HARDER than black to white transitions. See it like running very fast in an hotel aisle. If you want to stop at the door in the middle, chance is big you run a little past it (and with an LCD that means the colour is slightly off). But to stop at the wall at the end is not that hard. Just crash into it!
If you want to freak out your LCD and seriously test it on Ghosting and smear, make a checkerboard pattern with say 45% grey and 50% grey pixels. Then drag the window around. OH BOY YOU GET ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---!.

[MonMotha]

Depends on how much overshoot you're willing to tolerate (which also makes it look like it's ghosting).  The cheap things citing stupid low response times seem willing to tolerate quite a bit.  I know at least TN type LCDs are usually not driven "all the way" even for full white/black.  Going past a chosen "pixel off" (i.e. "white") point results in it taking too long to turn back up, and going past the chosen "full on" (i.e. "black") point can result in long-term damage to the panel, even though the panel does get darker.  Some designs may exceed those points transiently, though, since, as you point out, you'll tend to overshoot a bit when you transition.

The point, though, is that they generally cook the test cases to give them the lowest number possible for a given testing criteria, since they know it's a number that the product is "sold" by.

The same thing happens (in the US, at least) with digital cameras and the "megapixels rating" (yes, I've heard sales reps say that) and is why you end up with 10MP cell phones and $50 point and shoots that don't have the optics to resolve anything close to that and sensors only a few mm across meaning you mostly just get noise at that res.  But by golly it puts out overcompressed JPEGs with 10 million pixels!

What can be really misleading is that the monitors that naturally have lower response time (TN and VA panel types) require or at least benefit highly from non-causal overdrive waveform calculations so they have to delay the display slightly (a frame or two) in order to "see into the future" for those calculations.  You end up with a "super fast" display in terms of response time but it's so lagged as to be useless for gaming, anyway.  Gah...this is why I have my FW900s for gaming.

[Blanka]

Lag is not as big a problem as you might think. Your brain has to calculate up front too, otherwise your arm is too late at the needed position. It can handle a 30% longer delay (2 frames) with ease...

[jvino]

I'm starting to get things together for a MAME cabinet (nes, snes, etc also).  I see that most people prefer "arcade" monitors.  I would like to keep it simple and use a screen that is readily available.  What do you all think about:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005310

If it isn't suitable, what would you recommend for a large screen?  I would think that a non-widescreen would be better but they are small.

My goal is to build a new PC to run the software.  I'll have many more questions but I need the screen to get the cabinet built (Knievel's Woody inspired)

Thanks!!

J

[fantoboy]

This one is on sale for the next couple days:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236103&nm_mc=EMC-EXPRESS072112&cm_mmc=EMC-EXPRESS072112-_-EMC-072112-Index-_-LCDMonitors-_-24236103-L02A

[jvino]

How about:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001645

[fantoboy]

Thanks- but just a little pricey for me

[apfelanni]

bought a sony  BRAVIA KDL-32NX500 for a conversion cab some time ago and i m very happy with it . very good panel , lots of inputs , low delay , auto power on with last selected input , protective screen glas . the only downside is the sony typical navigation and the remote , which sucks ass . it doesnt matter anyway , since i dont use it as tv ,  but for highres console gaming only .

[wcndave]

I'm building a cabinet from scratch.  I'm inspired by the MVC skinny cabinet on this forum:

This cab looks great, and good dimensions for someone without a lot of space... any idea where i can get more info on it?  I did try a search but came up with either nothing, or everything...

[Drnick]

The above cabinet was nice and easy to find.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,112721.0.html

[infoleather]

Obviously, they switch to to panel around 08-09 different types of nearby do not have a good, though.

[dekar24k]

I have _ALWAYS_ been loyal to CRT's and have been desperately trying to get my hands on an authentic arcade CRT in the cabs I've made. But, now that my brand new Makvision 27/29" CRT died on me and I live in Norway, which means that there are no arcade monitor (or TV repair people) still around. Also, shipping it to the US for repairs would be way too expensive.

Anyways .. I went ahead the other day and did some research on LCDs and I figured that if I could get a fairly large 16:10 LCD, then it wouldn't be a too bad replacement for my 27" 4:3 Makvision. This was almost as hard as getting an arcade monitor, as they hardly make 16:10 LCDs anymore and the few I found were 24" or less.

That was until I found a store online who sold a HANNspree 28" HZ281HPB 16:10 LCD. This is a discontinued monitor, but luckily these guys had 2 in stock!  It's not an IPS panel, but I prefer less input lag over brightness anyways, so it's all good. I also believe I will have to de-case it, as my cabinet is only about 25" wide and this monitor is slightly wider with the chassis.

So, I'm finally switching to LCD now and I have to take back all the bad things I've said about it. What's cool about it is that I can now play SFIV etc. on my cab, not to forget about Future Pinball.

[rCadeGaming]

Lag is not as big a problem as you might think. Your brain has to calculate up front too, otherwise your arm is too late at the needed position. It can handle a 30% longer delay (2 frames) with ease...

Not exactly sure what you mean here, but if you're saying that human response time cancels out lag to some degree, this is totally false.  The period of human response time can't even start until the monitor has finished with its lag period and displayed something to for you to react to.

Human lag time and monitor lag do NOT cancel out, they add together, compounding the problem.

[BC_Jeffro]

go with an IPS monitor for sure