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Author Topic: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet  (Read 31908 times)

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TJCOMBO

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Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« on: June 28, 2012, 03:53:11 pm »
I am building a MAME cabinet and I am not up to date on what is new these days with MAME and computer hardware.

What is a good low cost/ high performance, efficient computer hardware option for MAME?  I would like to play almost all games that are fully playable, definitely the mid and late 90s fighters and the latest games.

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What version of MAME?  And is TinyXP a good OS to use?

paigeoliver

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 08:10:01 pm »
Tinyxp doesn't support the latest hardware.

The best cost to performance ratio on mame is to grab someone's old computer out of their basement and give them $1 for it, basically everything other than the 3D stuff was running full speed on current hardware 10 years ago on the mame version from 10 years ago. The real world difference is laughably small between an old 800 mhz pc with an old .60 mame version and a brand new gaming computer computer with the latest mame version.

The fact is that mame still isn't quite THERE with the 3D stuff and even what does work right largely requires specialty analog driving controls. There have been hundreds of incremental emulation improvements made, but most are essentially invisible to the end user. Thousands of titles have been added, but 98 percent of them are mahjong, clones, gambling, fruit machines, and terrible rare early games. The other 2 percent added is largely 3d driving games.

If there is absolutely anywhere that you can skimp in your build it is with the PC you use. Spend your budget on everything else, use a freebie computer and then upgrade it later.

I am building a MAME cabinet and I am not up to date on what is new these days with MAME and computer hardware.

What is a good low cost/ high performance, efficient computer hardware option for MAME?  I would like to play almost all games that are fully playable, definitely the mid and late 90s fighters and the latest games.

Intel Desktop Board D525MW
SD Card and adaptor
M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure

What version of MAME?  And is TinyXP a good OS to use?
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2012, 06:26:38 am »
If you do decide to go the way of a 10 year old free computer just make sure you know what your getting yourself into. 800mhz machines may be fine to play old mame games but you definitely won't be able to use hyperspin (a highly recommended "up to date" front end). I loaded up mame on a pentium 4 2.4ghz machine and mame ran ok on it but the rest of the computing experience as far as menus, wait time for loading etc was such a joke I wouldn't put it in my mame machine. I would have taken a hammer to it within a week out of shear frustration from it being so slow.

I ended up spending just under $150 and I found that to be a pretty good "sweet" spot myself. That gave me an intel celeron 2.5ghz 2 core processor (e3300) with a minimum motherboard (1 ram slot, 1 pci slot, which is all I needed) (Foxconn G41S-K), 2 gig of ram, and powersupply. That played everything supported in the newest version of mame except for the most demanding usual suspects like the blitz, gauntlet legends, newer tekkens, etc. More importantly windows ran a dream on it and hyperspin didn't take 20-30 seconds to show the next game in a list  :-[


Just recently I upgraded to a dual core 4.0ghz machine to be able to play the newer games. 3d fighters, blitz, the new cave sh3 shmups, tekkens all play awesome and I couldn't be happier. Upgrading probably added a bit more the 25 games from not running to running. For me it was worth it because I play the hell out of those games but for others I could see where they wouldn't justify it. The reason why you see so many people asking why games like blitz run like crap is because people actually want to play them. 

TJCOMBO

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2012, 11:26:15 am »
I do want Hyperspin on my computer and quick boot times.  The games that are an absolute must are the MK and KIs.  I know the older games will work just fine on an older computer, as I remembering playing them 15 years ago on a x486 in MAME.

The $150 setup looks like a good one.  Would something like a Dell GX270 work or is that inadequate?

How much would it cost for a system these days to get those newer games, 3d fighters, etc up and running?  I enjoy those, but if it's not within my budget then I will pass for now.

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2012, 11:30:32 am »
One additional consideration is your operaing system.  If you can, get Windows7 64 bit.  The 64 bit operating system can give a 10-15% performance increase (on 3D games) over a 32 bit system with the exact same hardware.

BadMouth

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2012, 12:13:21 pm »
How much would it cost for a system these days to get those newer games, 3d fighters, etc up and running?  I enjoy those, but if it's not within my budget then I will pass for now.

My $250 budget builds (not including OS) that were put together a couple years ago do pretty good for the price.
They use 2.9-3.4Ghz Athlon X3 processors and old Nvidia 8600GT video cards with S-vid out.
You could probably do better if building today.  
Current MAME builds are optimized for Intel processors, but I usually end up with AMD because of the price.

They run the 3D fighters including Tekken3 & Tekken Tag.
Blitz runs, but with occasional sound skips.  Gauntlet Legends is a no-go.
Using Demul, they run Atomiswave and Naomi games.
Dead or Alive Milleneum and Marvel Vs Capcom 2 run on Makaron 12.5, but that might be hard to find.
They work in Demul, but not as well.  Maybe because it's on the 2.9ghz computer.
The Taito Type X games that have been cracked run great on them.
If you plan to run the newest version of Demul (Metal Slug 6!  ;D ), you'll need a video card and OS capable of directx11. (xp is not)

The last 3 or 4 computers I built consisted of a $40 budget mobo, $20 for 2GB memory,  a decent power supply found on sale,
( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026 )
a $20 case (if any), whatever video card there is a deal on, and then the fastest processor I can find for around $60-80.

Sign up for Newegg emails and wait for a good deal with free shipping for each piece.
Before long you'll have all the parts to build a computer.

I despise the Pentium 4 as I was tied to a super slow work computer with one in.
It's ok for pacman I guess.



« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:09:10 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2012, 12:37:29 pm »
The GX270 would be fine for classics, and praying your motherboard doesn't blow capacitors. 

Drnick

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2012, 06:02:18 pm »
 :stupid  You could probably get away with a GX520 or 620,  I am currently building a desktop machine with a 620 In it.  To be honest I think it could do with some more horsepower but Hyperspin runs OK on it.  Haven't tried any 3d games on it though.   

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2012, 09:45:30 pm »
best bang for your buck get a intel i5 core 2500k with motherboard combo read about i have it and its amazing no hicups at all!!! :cheers:

capsule

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 07:12:40 am »
:stupid  You could probably get away with a GX520 or 620,  I am currently building a desktop machine with a 620 In it.  To be honest I think it could do with some more horsepower but Hyperspin runs OK on it.  Haven't tried any 3d games on it though.   


I'm in charge of the IT of a photography school and out of 5 Optiplex GX620, only 1 is still alive today. They all died from a failing Real Time Clock. This may be bad luck or you should definitely avoid this type of machine. Which is sad because it's more than fine for MK and KI.

About hyperspin, if you don't plan to use multiple systems, it's definitely overkill.

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 02:36:33 pm »
I use the M350 for a HTPC. I think it is unnecessary for a MAME build. Just cut the mobo tray and expansion card backplane of a junked case.
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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2012, 09:40:26 pm »
I'm not a mame expert by any stretch of the imagination but I have tested dozens of different configurations since becoming a mame addict. Everything from old 1990's pentium and celeron processors, AMD processors, VIA processors to today's modern PCs and everything in between.

I think the best way to approach the question is, what exactly do you want out of your mame setup? What do you want to play? What OS do you plan on using? How fast do you want this unit to realistically boot?

If you just want to play the classics and don't mind losing some of the more bleeding edge support for some games, you can use a throw away pentium 3 era PC and use mame V0.106 and below. Those versions of mame used a different rendering engine. The engine was much faster but sacrificed some minuscule accuracy.

If you want to play some more advanced 3D games i would suggest at least a socket 775 or socket 939 PC using ddr2 memory and above. Running a 64bit cpu (pentiumD or AMD64) and a 64bit OS is a major plus as mame 64 bit builds run with a noticeable performance increase. You will also be required to meet these minimum specs along with a solid ATI 3-series or Nvidia 7-series and above card in order to run those elusive Taito Type-X games.

The majority of 3D games emulated in mame do not use OpenGL, DirectX or any other middle-ware to process 3D graphics to your graphics card. Mame uses a minimal amount of graphics processor effort for anything. The bulk of Mame's emulation ie done via CPU. It's just something to keep in mind while deciding on which direction your next project will be headed.

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2012, 09:05:48 am »
I am building a MAME cabinet and I am not up to date on what is new these days with MAME and computer hardware.

What is a good low cost/ high performance, efficient computer hardware option for MAME?  I would like to play almost all games that are fully playable, definitely the mid and late 90s fighters and the latest games.

Paige and the rest are right, you can do MAME on the serious cheap nowadays.

My question is: You say "low cost," but what exactly is your budget? You can build a beast of a setup for $500-$600 right now that will be waaay overpowered for what's playable in the latest versions of MAME, and get you nice PC gaming too.

I'm generalizing a bit, but here's my guidelines: The areas to spend your money on are CPU, GPU, and OS (definitely 64bit Win7 or better).  The areas to "skimp" are the mobo (to a certain extent...), the HDD and RAM. If you go with a discreet GPU, make sure your power supply can handle it.

I'd also say this; if you're thinking mini-ITX form factor but you have the space for something - ANYTHING bigger, use something bigger. If you're building min-ITX, you're already in a "specialty/enthusiast" territory, and you will be required to make compromises, either money or features/power. Even microATX gives you comparatively significant breathing room.

I don't know... my thought has always been save up a little extra, buy a little bigger/more power than I think I'll need - dodge Buyer's Remorse and the disappointment that my rig can't play "that one game that's playable in MAME now..."

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 09:07:44 am by RyoriNoTetsujin »

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 09:29:05 am »


I'm generalizing a bit, but here's my guidelines: The areas to spend your money on are CPU, GPU, and OS (definitely 64bit Win7 or better).  The areas to "skimp" are the mobo (to a certain extent...), the HDD and RAM. If you go with a discreet GPU, make sure your power supply can handle it.


Just wondering what is better then 64bit Win7 :dunno


TJCOMBO

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 09:52:16 am »
I am building a MAME cabinet and I am not up to date on what is new these days with MAME and computer hardware.

What is a good low cost/ high performance, efficient computer hardware option for MAME?  I would like to play almost all games that are fully playable, definitely the mid and late 90s fighters and the latest games.

Paige and the rest are right, you can do MAME on the serious cheap nowadays.

My question is: You say "low cost," but what exactly is your budget? You can build a beast of a setup for $500-$600 right now that will be waaay overpowered for what's playable in the latest versions of MAME, and get you nice PC gaming too.

I'm generalizing a bit, but here's my guidelines: The areas to spend your money on are CPU, GPU, and OS (definitely 64bit Win7 or better).  The areas to "skimp" are the mobo (to a certain extent...), the HDD and RAM. If you go with a discreet GPU, make sure your power supply can handle it.

I'd also say this; if you're thinking mini-ITX form factor but you have the space for something - ANYTHING bigger, use something bigger. If you're building min-ITX, you're already in a "specialty/enthusiast" territory, and you will be required to make compromises, either money or features/power. Even microATX gives you comparatively significant breathing room.

I don't know... my thought has always been save up a little extra, buy a little bigger/more power than I think I'll need - dodge Buyer's Remorse and the disappointment that my rig can't play "that one game that's playable in MAME now..."

 :cheers:

I don't really know what you can and cannot play of the modern games barring speed, but I want to play most of them. If I can spend $300 to play just about all of them, including the Tekkens, Mortal Kombats and Killer Instincts, then that is a definite must have.  If it means spend an extra $200 on top of that $300 or so to play Gauntlet and SF RUSH or what have you, then that's a big no. 

Honestly, I am just looking for someone to tell me what exactly to buy with what is currently out there. I know more than the basics of computers, but I have never assembled one myself.  Would someone mind telling me exactly all the brands/parts needed on a powerful, yet not too expensive setup (mobo, cpu, OS, RAM, HDD, GPU, powercord, anything else I may be missing) so I can put it together?

Is the Win7 going to give you more juice and flexibility then say just Linux?  I really would not want to buy it if I have to.

BadMouth

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2012, 10:58:59 am »
Is the Win7 going to give you more juice and flexibility then say just Linux?  I really would not want to buy it if I have to.

If you know Linux, go with it.  There is a linux subforum in the software forum here.
That would be the place to ask about flexibility.  If only running MAME, it should be fine.
You might want to that other emulators you plan to run have a linux build available.

I don't know of any advantage that Win7 has over XP64 when it comes to running MAME.
A dev could probably list some, but I can't imagine anything big enough to justify the cost.
There's the issue of it not supporting Directx11, but that only comes into play with Demul v.57. 
(Demul v.56 runs fine on XP, but supports a few less games and is a PITA to set up)

XP64 Product Keys are harder to find, but it is worth the trouble for the performance increase.
I'd stick with XP64 if you can find a copy cheap or free.
That's more money you can spend on the processor, which is the most important thing.

BadMouth

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2012, 11:31:27 am »
Don't have a lot of spare time today, but I threw this together quick:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106009
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138345
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148194
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028 (don't cheap out too bad on the power supply)

EDIT: CRAP! forgot a hard drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769  (zero time spend digging for a good deal)

Comes to around $250 $315 after discounts/rebates.  No case, no OS.  On-board video should be fine for MAME.  Video card can be added later.

There is probably an intel equivelant for around the same price.
A "slower" Intel processor will peform just as well or better, but I haven't used any recent models to be familiar with what it takes to run the games you mentioned.
I'm confident this would run all those without issue and would run NFL Blitz and SF Rush perfectly using XP64 and all unneccesary background turned off.

You could save some money by moving down to a 95w cpu and the slightly cheaper mobo and power supply it would require.
This is pretty close to what I'm running and it can play Tekken 3/Tag just fine (MK and KI will run fine on a much slower cpu).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103911
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138293
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026

That would put it back down to around $250.

 :angry: I'm falling farther behind on my work messing with this, but I can't help myself.   :angry:
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 11:49:57 am by BadMouth »

RyoriNoTetsujin

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2012, 12:02:43 pm »
Just wondering what is better then 64bit Win7 :dunno

I think you were reading my colloquialism a little too literally.  I was just alluding to the fact that there are multiple versions of Win7 still (home, pro, Ult, Super Combo whatever) but frankly, now that we're on the subject, Win8 isn't that far off either.

From what I've been reading, it's looking like upgrading to Win8 (even from XP) is going to be relatively inexpensive compared to previous versions. Might be worth checking out.

Call me crazy.  :dunno

TJCOMBO

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2012, 01:30:04 pm »
Don't have a lot of spare time today, but I threw this together quick:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106009
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138345
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148194
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028 (don't cheap out too bad on the power supply)

EDIT: CRAP! forgot a hard drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769  (zero time spend digging for a good deal)

Comes to around $250 $315 after discounts/rebates.  No case, no OS.  On-board video should be fine for MAME.  Video card can be added later.

There is probably an intel equivelant for around the same price.
A "slower" Intel processor will peform just as well or better, but I haven't used any recent models to be familiar with what it takes to run the games you mentioned.
I'm confident this would run all those without issue and would run NFL Blitz and SF Rush perfectly using XP64 and all unneccesary background turned off.

You could save some money by moving down to a 95w cpu and the slightly cheaper mobo and power supply it would require.
This is pretty close to what I'm running and it can play Tekken 3/Tag just fine (MK and KI will run fine on a much slower cpu).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103911
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138293
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026

That would put it back down to around $250.

 :angry: I'm falling farther behind on my work messing with this, but I can't help myself.   :angry:

Ordered this stuff today.  Thanks for the help  :applaud: !!

BadMouth

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2012, 02:43:35 pm »
Ordered this stuff today.  Thanks for the help  :applaud: !!

Did you get the cheaper or more expensive processor and mobo?

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2012, 05:15:18 pm »
Got the cheaper one... Anything I need to keep in mind regarding?  As long as I am playing the KI and Tekkens then I am a happy camper.

Bender

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2013, 10:24:29 am »
Any updates for 2013?

I have no experience building a mini ITX system so this threat was very informative

I'm trying to set up a mini ITX system, It needs to be small, light, and able to play the newer fighters
Any help would be much appreciated
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 10:28:07 am by Bender »

Banacek

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 03:19:45 am »
I spent the last year recovering my MAME cabinet PC when it started dying. The problem with using old hardware is that:

1) It can be prone to failure, and
2) It WILL be a pain to replace individual hardware pieces if they die.

I would follow BadMouth's advice and just buy new cheap. I mean, it's so cheap nowadays it's crazy.

Oh, and if you are just playing MAME I would look into grabbing a Linux distro for your cab. Save even more money  ;D
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 11:57:20 am by Banacek »

RyoriNoTetsujin

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 09:29:48 am »
Not to toot my own horn but, Bender, check out this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129277.msg1321896.html#msg1321896

That new Noctua heatsink is the key to getting what you want into the smallest realms of mini-ITX, I think.

Bender

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2013, 12:14:51 pm »
Not to toot my own horn but, Bender, check out this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129277.msg1321896.html#msg1321896

That new Noctua heatsink is the key to getting what you want into the smallest realms of mini-ITX, I think.

looks like the right direction
have a few questions I posted in your thread
Thanks!

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 04:45:54 pm »
Guys... looks like you guys are all very good at this. so i would like to to seek some guidance.
i had purchased a mame unit from Dreamauthentics in 2004.
it has WG 7400 25 inch monitor that only does 15kz.  the unit is powered by compaq pc that i am sure was a workable in 2004.  (i think it only has 512)  it also has an older version of ATI that has ArcadeVGA driver..

so i am thinking about upgrading but i am little scared because of this arcade monitor issue.  I have been reading and it can turn into a real headache
1) i want this pc to handle Hyperspin well
2) and play most of the demand CHD games.  ( Tekken i think was a slide show on my last PC)
Looks like i can't go wrong with spending about 500 bucks here to get the machine set up.
But my question is the Graphics card.  What should I use?  the old one?  upgrade?  I hear of ArcadeVGA 3000 but some people say it has a problem with window 7. 


some advice would be deeply appreciated.

paigeoliver

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Re: Hardware for 2012 Mame cabinet
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 11:02:38 pm »
You can get a VGA to CGA convertor.

Or just get a new PC and don't run windows 7. Downgrade to vista or XP.
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