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| Xiaou2:
This thread was never about playing spinner games with a rotary stick. That was YOUR off-shoot. The thread, was about having good Rotary control, for Rotary games. As for the rest, it means nothing. I seriously doubt there is any bottleneck in the reading of Arkanoid. And if there is.. Shame on mame. However, that does not change the mechanical facts. Nor does it change the fact, that most people Prefer a click-lock Rotary on click-lock Rotary games. Yes, you CAN play them with an optical... but... it does not feel the same. Doesnt control the same... and thus, many people will never desire to use an optical rotary, even IF they could use an optical rotary to use as a "half-butt" all-in-one-controller-solution. I couldnt even use my Rotaries for fighting games, because the sticks just are not anywhere near as smooth and good as a happs comp stick. Nor could I play Robotron with Either of those. It has to be Wico 8way leaf sticks. There are those of us who would rather never play a game, unless it has the PROPER controller. To us, its like trying to play a guitar thats out of tune (and wont stay in tune) ,and missing a string. Yes, you can play that beat up guitar... but, its simply not the same... nor is it satisfying, to many of us. |
| CoryBee:
Second that last part Xiaou. ;) |
| gamuhar:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on June 05, 2012, 03:11:14 am ---This thread was never about playing spinner games with a rotary stick. That was YOUR off-shoot. --- End quote --- Yes, it's interesting bonus you can do with optical spinners. Did you know about it before? --- Quote --- As for the rest, it means nothing. I seriously doubt there is any bottleneck in the reading of Arkanoid. And if there is.. Shame on mame. However, that does not change the mechanical facts. --- End quote --- Refresh rate determines how often a game can pull input updates from MAME, so usually 60Hz. Facts change the moment you plug your controller into USB adapter instead of actual PCB, which does not mean you still can not get good results, but it also means with fast enough spin you will be hitting all kinds of bottlenecks. --- Quote --- Nor does it change the fact, that most people Prefer a click-lock Rotary on click-lock Rotary games. Yes, you CAN play them with an optical... but... it does not feel the same. Doesnt control the same... and thus, many people will never desire to use an optical rotary, even IF they could use an optical rotary to use as a "half-butt" all-in-one-controller-solution. --- End quote --- You can play, and that is what answers mytymaus007's question. Why are you telling us about your personal preferences if we already agreed that's for everyone to figure out for themselves? Shouldn't you be trying it out now and maybe you would see it's not that bad as you imagine? --- Quote --- I couldnt even use my Rotaries for fighting games, because the sticks just are not anywhere near as smooth and good as a happs comp stick. Nor could I play Robotron with Either of those. It has to be Wico 8way leaf sticks. --- End quote --- Noooo, no Robotron and damn Wico leafs!! You told your Robotron story at least 100,000 times on these forums. Oh god, oh god... if you are up there, please help us, Superman!! What rotaries you have, mechanical? You need to try Happ optical rotary if you want to have opinion about it, until then all you have are just your assumption. Even if you are right that's a lot of assumptions, it's unnecessary. Much more fun is actually trying out stuff, plus you get to know the facts. --- Quote --- There are those of us who would rather never play a game, unless it has the PROPER controller. To us, its like trying to play a guitar thats out of tune (and wont stay in tune) ,and missing a string. Yes, you can play that beat up guitar... but, its simply not the same... nor is it satisfying, to many of us. --- End quote --- Proper, yes. Authentic, not necessarily. What's "proper" is a function of personal preferences and abilities. Earlier you said playing Star Wars with a mouse or analog joystick is "ok". Again, my point is not that you should replace mechanical rotary or Arkanoid spinner with optical rotary stick, but those are BONUS things you can do with optical rotary if you already have it. I don't see any real disagreement between us anymore, you are now talking about your personal preferences and I have nothing to say about it, so I think our argument is over. All I can say to you now is just - try it out, it does not bite! |
| Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---Yes, it's interesting bonus you can do with optical spinners. Did you know about it before? --- End quote --- Its not really all that interesting. Its very basic stuff really. Ive Managed arcades, so Im very familiar with arcade hardware: Optics, Pots, gearing / mechanical, and electrical... As well as PC interfaces. Ive pretty much seen it all, played it all, and fixed it all. --- Quote ---Facts change the moment you plug your controller into USB adapter instead of actual PCB --- End quote --- Im not saying I couldnt be mistaken... but USB2 is 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s), and I have a feeling that even an Arkanoid spinner wont even come close to missing a beat at that rate of data transfer. --- Quote ---What rotaries you have, mechanical? You need to try Happ optical rotary if you want to have opinion about it, until then all you have are just your assumption. Even if you are right that's a lot of assumptions, it's unnecessary. Much more fun is actually trying out stuff, plus you get to know the facts. --- End quote --- I have both Optical Rotaries, and LS-30 click stop rotaries, Starwars yoke, Analog and digital trigger sticks, Wico Leaf sticks, Happs comps, 360 degree arcade steering wheels, 270 deg. arcade wheels, arcade analog pedal sets, Race Drivin 5 way balltop shifters, micro and leaf buttons, Discs of Tron spinner, Sinistar optical 49 way, and countless other controllers. (in addition to a few real arcade & pinball machines) Im very aware and experienced in the Arcade Controls department. Ive even built my own arcade controllers from scratch. You should never Assume anything. |
| AGarv:
--- Quote from: gamuhar on June 04, 2012, 11:38:28 pm --- --- Quote from: BadMouth on June 04, 2012, 10:33:50 pm ---you left out 2.25 inch ball, 0.362 inch roller Count Per Revolution of the trackball, not the encoder wheel. It's done the same way for the steering wheels that have gearing. --- End quote --- That's right, we also left out "multiplier" thing, sampling rate of the device, pulling rate of the game, pulling rate of OS, sampling rate in MAME, sensitivity setting in MAME, and game screen resolution. Plus, we do not have to match rotations 1:1, that's only really necessary for 720 Degrees, but all the other games you can compensate and get used to other ratios, just like you can play all those games with your PC mouse even though rotation ratio, resolution and sampling is very different than what actual PCB use. So there could be some "transmission", and Happ optical rotary could in fact use 72 or more counts per revolution? I'm just asking. I don't see any info about it, that's all. Perhaps my home-made optical rotary is much better than Happ's, I made it out of PC mouse. Used this tutorial as a guide: http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/ --- Quote ---Could you explain how the term "temporal" applies here? --- End quote --- As in "divided in time". Like frame-rate of 60fps or audio sampling at 11kHz is also "temporal resolution". It applies to pulling and sampling rate of the spinner device, OS and that in MAME. Counts per revolution don't mean much if you can not sample or pull them at sufficient rate. Real resolution here is combination of both, temporal and spatial, but the real practical limit is temporal, because it's 'serial signal' and thus encoded in time, while spatial resolution only forces you to make wider rotations in order to move the same distance which human machine can compensate well as it is relative motion. There is complex interaction with several unknown bottlenecks and specifics of each game, all I am saying here (to Xiaou) is that you really have to try it out before jumping into conclusions. --- End quote --- Wow, thanks for posting that tutorial, I can't believe I haven't seen it before! It even mods a Happ Competition, my favorite joystick of all time. :) BTW from a purely rotary game perspective, the original mechanicals with stop-points are much more authentic. I used to play Ikari Warriors a fair amount, and the stop-points definitely are part of your higher level game play. Given that you can't really do anything will rotary sticks well except play about a half dozen specific games, I'd try to make the mechanical rotaries work! |
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