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Happ Optical rotary joysticks

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gamuhar:


--- Quote from: PL1 on June 04, 2012, 06:32:13 pm ---You do know there is a search tab, right.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Spinner_Turn_Count

Unit is Counts_Per_Revolution
Tempest=72
Arkanoid=486

--- End quote ---

Look at your link, see that table with spinners lists "Effective_Tooth_Count" and "Counts_Per_Revolution", but look down below and you will see Happ 2.25 inch trackball has "149.2" resolution and only 24 tooth encoder disc. How does that fit in your definition of what "resolution" is?

BadMouth:


--- Quote from: gamuhar on June 04, 2012, 09:48:01 pm ---but look down below and you will see Happ 2.25 inch trackball has "149.2" resolution and only 24 tooth encoder disc. How does that fit in your definition of what "resolution" is?

--- End quote ---

you left out 2.25 inch ball, 0.362 inch roller

Count Per Revolution of the trackball, not the encoder wheel.
It's done the same way for the steering wheels that have gearing.

Could you explain how the term "temporal" applies here?

gamuhar:


--- Quote from: BadMouth on June 04, 2012, 10:33:50 pm ---you left out 2.25 inch ball, 0.362 inch roller

Count Per Revolution of the trackball, not the encoder wheel.
It's done the same way for the steering wheels that have gearing.

--- End quote ---

That's right, we also left out "multiplier" thing, sampling rate of the device, pulling rate of the game, pulling rate of OS, sampling rate in MAME, sensitivity setting in MAME, and game screen resolution. Plus, we do not have to match rotations 1:1, that's only really necessary for 720 Degrees, but all the other games you can compensate and get used to other ratios, just like you can play all those games with your PC mouse even though rotation ratio, resolution and sampling is very different than what actual PCB use.

So there could be some "transmission", and Happ optical rotary could in fact use 72 or more counts per revolution? I'm just asking. I don't see any info about it, that's all. Perhaps my home-made optical rotary is much better than Happ's, I made it out of PC mouse.



Used this tutorial as a guide: http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/



--- Quote ---Could you explain how the term "temporal" applies here?

--- End quote ---

As in "divided in time". Like frame-rate of 60fps or audio sampling at 11kHz is also "temporal resolution". It applies to pulling and sampling rate of the spinner device, OS and that in MAME. Counts per revolution don't mean much if you can not sample or pull them at sufficient rate. Real resolution here is combination of both, temporal and spatial, but the real practical limit is temporal, because it's 'serial signal' and thus encoded in time, while spatial resolution only forces you to make wider rotations in order to move the same distance which human machine can compensate well as it is relative motion. There is complex interaction with several unknown bottlenecks and specifics of each game, all I am saying here (to Xiaou) is that you really have to try it out before jumping into conclusions.

Xiaou2:

There is no way you are replicating the accuracy of an Arkanoid spinner, with a happs rotary encoder.  I dont care what bottle necks you have.  The game is designed to be super high-resolution.

 If you change the game, so that every Nth click = 20 pixels of movement.. you are effectively cheating.  Your bat will be jumping maybe 20 pixels per click instead of 1 per click.  This changes the entire dynamic of the game and gameplay.

 You will never have as much control and accuracy, as a spinner that has a 480 tick count per revolution, as an optical disc on a happs rotary, that has 20 ticks at most per revolution.   Thats 24x the resolution (if my match is correct, and Im not great at math).  That means, for every single tick of the rotary... you would have 24 ticks on the Arkanoid spinner.  24 degrees of accurate lost at every single tick or degree of rotation... is a LOT of loss.

 It like the difference between black and white tv @ 320x240...vs... full color hdtv @ 1920x1080.

 Theres no comparison.

gamuhar:


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on June 05, 2012, 12:16:00 am ---There is no way you are replicating the accuracy of an Arkanoid spinner, with a happs rotary encoder.  I dont care what bottle necks you have.  The game is designed to be super high-resolution.

--- End quote ---

If the game is designed for super high resolution then that's exactly why you should care about bottlenecks I mentioned. Do you know what is the maximum resolution you can get through MAME?



--- Quote --- If you change the game, so that every Nth click = 20 pixels of movement.. you are effectively cheating.  Your bat will be jumping maybe 20 pixels per click instead of 1 per click.  This changes the entire dynamic of the game and gameplay.

 You will never have as much control and accuracy, as a spinner that has a 480 tick count per revolution, as an optical disc on a happs rotary, that has 20 ticks at most per revolution.   Thats 24x the resolution (if my match is correct, and Im not great at math).  That means, for every single tick of the rotary... you would have 24 ticks on the Arkanoid spinner.  24 degrees of accurate lost at every single tick or degree of rotation... is a LOT of loss.

 It like the difference between black and white tv @ 320x240...vs... full color hdtv @ 1920x1080.

--- End quote ---

You still don't know ACTUAL resolution of Happ optical rotary?! It's 24 counts at least, not 20 at most.

So, are you saying 12-position rotary stick can do it better?



--- Quote --- Theres no comparison.

--- End quote ---

I am not saying Happ optical rotary is competition for Arkanoid spinner, nor am I comparing them directly, you are doing that on your own. I am comparing optical rotary with 12-position mechanical rotary joystick in relation to all the spinner and rotary games, and again my point is not that you should replace mechanical rotary or Arkanoid spinner with optical rotary stick, but if you can put only one joystick on a cabinet then optical rotary will make the most of the games playable, that's all I am saying and we already agreed.

It's about playing Arkanoid by rotating optical rotary stick
- VS - moving the stick left-right or using 12-position rotary.

Even if it was bad as you assume optical rotary still wins, yes?

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