Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news


  

Author Topic: Rotary Joystick help please  (Read 2550 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jardine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Rotary Joystick help please
« on: May 18, 2012, 09:52:06 pm »
Hey guys, has been so long since I needed to stuff around with my cab I've forgotten what to do and what to look for.

For some reason my rotary has stop rotating. I have the 8 way movement but nothing else. Keen to get back onto Heavy Barrel ASAP :D

Can someone point me in the direction where I need to start please. Checked the cables and connections and all look ok.

Cheers.

jardine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 06:45:16 pm »
Anyone?? Are there other forums that may be able to help with my answer? Have tried a search but not much came up. Will go look again I guess.

matsadona

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 712
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2012, 05:23:19 am »
Some more information would be good in order to help you. Should we assume you are using MAME, since it is in the software forum?
If so, what kind of interface are you using and so on…?
Building, collecting and playing arcade machines :)

opt2not

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4067
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2012, 02:21:05 pm »
How does the optic board look?  Any burnt resistors or traces?  How about the encoder wheel, is it properly centered between the IR sensor?
matsadona's right, more thorough info is needed.

Lilwolf

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4926
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2012, 03:28:41 pm »
Is it an optic or 12way?  what controller are you using?

If its an optic, does it move the mouse in windows outside of emulator?

jackiabu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 281
    • http://jackiabu.blogspot.com/
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2012, 03:52:14 pm »
I myself use rotary joystick. And I think I can help you. ;D
 But first I must ask you, whether you are using MAME?

jardine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2012, 07:06:38 am »
Hey guys, thanks for the replies. Couple of things for you all. Yes, I'm in mame using mamewah as my front end.

As for the type of rotary I think it's the optical one, how can I tell? Like I said its been soooooo long since I stuffed around with all of this. As I turn the joy it clicks if that helps.

I'm using a GP keywiz 40ST for the 8 way and the ultimarc rotary interface as a USB.

Hoe this info gets the ball rolling

matsadona

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 712
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2012, 09:58:28 am »
Excellent, that helps a lot.
The Ultimarc rotary interface is originally configured for the following keys (default for rotation in MAME):

Player 1 Left  [
Player 1 Right  ]
Player 2 Left \
Player 2 Right /

To verify that it is working properly, just open a notepad window and turn the joystick(s). If there are no characters at all, something is wrong (i.e. bad cable, no cable or bad interface).
If there are characters showing in the notepad window you probably need to reconfigure the settings in MAME, accordingly.
Building, collecting and playing arcade machines :)

jardine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2012, 05:23:58 pm »
Excellent, that helps a lot.
The Ultimarc rotary interface is originally configured for the following keys (default for rotation in MAME):

Player 1 Left  [
Player 1 Right  ]
Player 2 Left \
Player 2 Right /

To verify that it is working properly, just open a notepad window and turn the joystick(s). If there are no characters at all, something is wrong (i.e. bad cable, no cable or bad interface).
If there are characters showing in the notepad window you probably need to reconfigure the settings in MAME, accordingly.


Did this and nothing shows on the notepad. Not sure if it matters but using the keyboard works perfectly. So must be one of the above. Where to look and start?

matsadona

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 712
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 02:02:03 am »
Ok, no result is also a kind of result. Then we know that it isn’t the configuration in MAME that is the main problem.

I have never used the rotary joystick interface myself, so I can’t tell how it is presented in Windows. Probably it is shown as a keyboard or some kind of HID in the Device manager. Try disconnect it and insert it to some other USB port.
Once you have established a working connection in Windows, make sure that the cable from the joystick to the interface is OK.

http://www.ultimarc.com/rotary.html
Building, collecting and playing arcade machines :)

jardine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2012, 06:09:26 am »
Ok, no result is also a kind of result. Then we know that it isn’t the configuration in MAME that is the main problem.

I have never used the rotary joystick interface myself, so I can’t tell how it is presented in Windows. Probably it is shown as a keyboard or some kind of HID in the Device manager. Try disconnect it and insert it to some other USB port.
Once you have established a working connection in Windows, make sure that the cable from the joystick to the interface is OK.

http://www.ultimarc.com/rotary.html


Can't seem to establish a working connection at this stage  :dunno Not only that but everything in the device mgr is a ok. No issues are showing up.

Tested the usb port its connected into with the mouse and no problem there. What is weird is that when I open notepad I get nothing when I push any of the buttons. Is this normal? All other joysticks and buttons work in game no problem though.

gamuhar

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2012, 07:12:44 am »
Excellent, that helps a lot.
The Ultimarc rotary interface is originally configured for the following keys (default for rotation in MAME):

Player 1 Left  [
Player 1 Right  ]
Player 2 Left \
Player 2 Right /

To verify that it is working properly, just open a notepad window and turn the joystick(s). If there are no characters at all, something is wrong (i.e. bad cable, no cable or bad interface).
If there are characters showing in the notepad window you probably need to reconfigure the settings in MAME, accordingly.


Did this and nothing shows on the notepad. Not sure if it matters but using the keyboard works perfectly. So must be one of the above. Where to look and start?

Rotary joysticks, both optical and mechanical, work like a mouse/spinner, so you should not see any characters in notepad when you rotate the stick, as that's like moving a mouse left-right. You need to look at your mouse pointer and if it does not respond to joystick rotation you most likely have some problem in wiring or with optical sensor. If you have voltmeter (analog preferably) I can tell you how to test both, but you would need to open up the thing and take a few close-up photos so I can tell you at what points to measure the voltage and what kind of reading to expect.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 07:14:55 am by gamuhar »

matsadona

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 712
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2012, 10:22:30 am »
Rotary joysticks, both optical and mechanical, work like a mouse/spinner, so you should not see any characters in notepad when you rotate the stick, as that's like moving a mouse left-right. You need to look at your mouse pointer and if it does not respond to joystick rotation you most likely have some problem in wiring or with optical sensor. If you have voltmeter (analog preferably) I can tell you how to test both, but you would need to open up the thing and take a few close-up photos so I can tell you at what points to measure the voltage and what kind of reading to expect.

Hm, are you sure about that?
I believed that the Ultimarc interface converted the 12-position rotary switch output to keyboard signals ( [ , ] , \ , / ).

Quoted from the Ultimarc product page:
This small board connects two rotary 12-position switch joysticks such as Happ Controls p/n 50-5618-00 to USB.
The board appears to the PC as a USB keyboard. The keycodes sent to the PC are fixed and are as follows:


Since it is emulating standard keyboard inputs I still believe it is a feasible way to test, using Notepad.
Not sure what an analog voltmeter would tell you about that one… But once again, I’m just assuming since I don’t have the actual hardware.

Can't seem to establish a working connection at this stage  :dunno Not only that but everything in the device mgr is a ok. No issues are showing up.

Tested the usb port its connected into with the mouse and no problem there. What is weird is that when I open notepad I get nothing when I push any of the buttons. Is this normal? All other joysticks and buttons work in game no problem though.

Jardine, have you tested the interface on another computer?
Regarding no input what so ever in the Notepad window, are you sure that window is highlighted/active?
It might be some hardware error with your interface, and that it might be blocking the input from the regular keyboard…
Building, collecting and playing arcade machines :)

gamuhar

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2012, 05:55:36 pm »
Hm, are you sure about that?
I believed that the Ultimarc interface converted the 12-position rotary switch output to keyboard signals ( [ , ] , \ , / ).

I'm not, I'm assuming poster does not have LS-30 "12-position rotary" joystick because they are typically referred to as "mechanical" and poster said he thinks his one is "optical". One photo would solve that mystery.

There are basically two types of rotary joysticks, those that use "quadrature encoding" (encoder itself can be mechanical or optical):








PC interface/adapter for these joystick converts "quadrature encoding" signal to standard PC mouse serial data, that's what I'm talking about.


And then there is "12-position rotary switch" you are talking about, it's unique and non-standard:




I'm not sure how it works but obviously there is nothing like it on a PC, as there is for "quadrature encoding" which is how mice work, spinners and trackballs too, so that explains why Ultimarc's interface converts "12-position" signal into keystrokes. I think it could just the same convert it to PC mouse signal, not sure which would be more authentic and don't think there would be any difference for MAME, except that mouse signal could be more suitable for other games that do use "quadrature encoding" type of rotary joystick.

It seem to me "12-position" rotary joystick with that interface would only let you play properly those games that originally use it, while with "quadrature encoding" rotary joystick you could play either type of rotary games just as good and without any loss of precision. I'd try it out to confirm, but I'm feeling lazy and I am pretty sure that's how it is.

I do have rotary joystick I made for 'Caliber .50' PCB. I never bothered to play any games in MAME with it, but I do know when connected to a PC via adapter it moves my mouse pointer left-right and so I know I could map that movement to whatever games and whatever their inputs are, digital or analog just the same. For example I could play Arkanoid in MAME with it and other spinner games, but i could also play Galaga if I map rotation to left and right, then I'd move by rotating the stick instead of moving it left or right. Never tried any of it though, this just occurred to me _after I wrote it, funny thing.





You could make one yourself in about few hours, and you probably already have all the parts necessary:

http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 06:12:52 pm by gamuhar »

matsadona

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 712
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 04:44:34 am »
Yes indeed, a clarification of what model Jardine is using would be good to finalize this discussion.
Once again, I was assuming it was the mechanical model since he was referring to the Ultimarc interface and then I disregarded the comment about that it might be the optical model. If it is an optical model there should be some other kind of interface.

By the way, are the mechanical rotary joysticks really that uncommon? I have a lot of them, but no optical. But I have only played Ikari Warriors and Heavy Barrel…

In regards to MAME, I agree that an optical rotary joystick would be more versatile, since the mechanical is limited to the fixed positions.
Building, collecting and playing arcade machines :)

gamuhar

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 05:11:43 pm »
By the way, are the mechanical rotary joysticks really that uncommon?

I only meant to say how "12-pin interface" does not exist on a PC and is not used by any modern hardware, in contrast to "quadrature encoding". There are probably more games that originally use it, but among MAME users I'd expect optical rotary would be more common due to its versatility.

jardine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2012, 08:23:56 pm »
Sorry guys, been a bit hectic over the weekend. Haven't had  chance to jump on.

This is my joystick btw, it's not the optical but the mechanical one on the left: http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/rotary_optical_joy.htm

Hope this helps a bit. Will hook up my laptop tonight and see if it's a faulty interface or not. Fingers crossed it is and it's just a matter of replacing it. Will let you know.

Cheers for the help so far too  ;D

jardine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2012, 07:00:14 am »
Ok, so hooked up the interface into another computer. Running windows 7 it recognized it no problem and installed the drivers. Showed up as a USB input.

Open notepad to test.......nothing. Could the interface need replacing.

matsadona

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 712
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2012, 09:28:11 am »
It seems so to me. But contact Andy at Ultimarc and see if there are other ways to troubleshoot and perhaps solve the issue.
Building, collecting and playing arcade machines :)

gamuhar

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2012, 10:07:33 am »
Ok, so hooked up the interface into another computer. Running windows 7 it recognized it no problem and installed the drivers. Showed up as a USB input.

Open notepad to test.......nothing. Could the interface need replacing.

Do you have multimeter to check continuity? Can you confirm with certainty everything is connected properly? If not, then you don't know anything for sure. Triple-check all the connections and inspect each wire, disconnect and reconnect everything and try once again before ordering a new interface.

jardine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2012, 10:28:52 pm »
Thanks for all the help guys. Will go over it tonight and triple check all connections etc. then send off an email to Andy with fingers crossed.

Will let you know how i go.

haynor666

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • retro maniac
Re: Rotary Joystick help please
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2017, 04:15:37 pm »
Quite old topic but now I'm also trying to set rotary for some games. Caliber 50 works fine as U360 is optical rotary interface just like original one in Caliber 50 cabinets. Problems are still with games that use originally positional josticks - sensivity option does not allow proper set.

  
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31