Dueling Micros: Gauntlet & TRON simultaneous build

[Le Chuck]

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[Le Chuck]

I have one of two Caanoos inbound as well as a GGG keyboard encoder and joysticks, buttons, and monitor extensions from Digikey.  Once everything arrives I'll be able to test multiple inputs and encoder functionality on the Caanoo, and start experimenting with spinner implementation.  I should make initial cuts for both cabinets this Sunday once I recover from drinking my face off on Cinco de Mayo.  I went ahead and worked the art but still need to complete my scale cut lists for each cab.

Right now I am short two graphics for TRON.  The rear shroud translite boarder and the upper CP plastic cover for the blacklight.  I have a friend who will hopefully provide me with images but if he is unable to I'll throw out some lines on the forum looking for help. 


Scale art for TRON


Scale art for Gauntlet

[SammyWI]

Two Caanoos incoming?  So you're two timing me?    I was wondering about your interest in Gauntlet.  A spinner hack for the Caanoo is pretty ambitious but now also a 4 player micro cab!?  That should be interesting.

[Le Chuck]

Two Caanoos incoming?  So you're two timing me?    I was wondering about your interest in Gauntlet.  A spinner hack for the Caanoo is pretty ambitious but now also a 4 player micro cab!?  That should be interesting.

You got another one up your sleeve sweetness?  If so I'll take it.  I'm still hunting the second one (third really).

[SammyWI]

Sorry, I'm tapped out now.  This Caanoo well is dry.

Good luck.

[yaksplat]

it's going to be hard to fit 4 people around that gauntlet... 

[Le Chuck]

it's going to be hard to fit 4 people around that gauntlet...  

Yeah, not real sure how well that one is gonna work out.  Should prove interesting.  

Scale templates for both cabs.  Measurements annotated are full scale but I sized them down so I can just print them on the plotter then cut them out quick and easy.  Once the side panels are cut I'll draw the rest of the panel directly on the MDF, makes it easier to account for wood thickness, angles, and bracing thataway


TRON:  Many thanks to spystyle for the plans


Gauntlet:  many thanks to jakobud for the plans

[Vigo]

Just an FYI on the Jakobud Gauntlet plan. I think for the most part they are spot on, but the top on them is shown as flat. I believe the original cabinets had a slight angle on the top.

and now I got a post in here so I can watch this thread. 

[BadMouth]

Just an FYI on the Jakobud Gauntlet plan. I think for the most part they are spot on, but the top on them is shown as flat. I believe the original cabinets had a slight angle on the top.

Gozer's model for comparison
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=9a62394bd632d6311d9de88c1cabaeb7&prevstart=0

[Le Chuck]

Okay, now we've got a serious quandary on our hands.  The model does show a light angel but it also shows that my art is wrong or that my art is a variant.  The model shows 5 ghosts on the top and mine cuts off at four.  I always assumed this was the difference between Gauntlet and Gauntlet 2 sideart but I just checked the original flyer and it is showing the extended work.  Need to dig in and figure out what's up.  If anybody can shed light on the subject that'd be great.

Edit:  I'm stumbling through tons of posts on Coinop and KLOV about this tall art vs short art issue.  Haven't determined where it came from originally but I have determined that I need the tall sideart because its kewl.   

[Vigo]

If I remember right, it was only the original Gauntlet Cabinets had the full artwork to the top of the machine. You can see it also goes all the way down to the warriors belt. At some point it was switched over to a cropped version. Probably to save costs. I think this might have been before Gauntlet II.

The downer part is that the only artwork that is readily available is the cropped version. While it is awesome a vector is there the first place, the full art is cooler, IMO.

The original side art wasn't rare. There are people out there who have it. I have seen a couple requests here for vector with no results. I don't think anyone has it vectored yet.

[Le Chuck]

If I remember right, it was only the original Gauntlet Cabinets had the full artwork to the top of the machine. You can see it also goes all the way down to the warriors belt. At some point it was switched over to a cropped version. Probably to save costs. I think this might have been before Gauntlet II.

The downer part is that the only artwork that is readily available is the cropped version. While it is awesome a vector is there the first place, the full art is cooler, IMO.

The original side art wasn't rare. There are people out there who have it. I have seen a couple requests here for vector with no results. I don't think anyone has it and vectored yet.

Since I'm working at such a small scale I can get away with using jpg images of the art, the problem is that nobody over at KLOV seems to take full side shots of their cabs from head.  I found a really good image but I need to do some color and aspect correction.  There is a guy who is printing full sides but there are some errors in his art, nothing major but a lot of nitnoid stuff that if I was doing full scale would bug me.  For this tho its purrrfect. 

[Vigo]

  Awesome! I guess I didn't think about vector format not being critical with a micro cab. Glad the solution is that simple for you.

[Le Chuck]

Well when I said purrrfect what I should have said was "these damn pictures are taken at funny angles and are all skew'd to hell".  The principle is sound, I just need to find a better donor photo.  Color variation I can deal with but if the shape isn't spot on it will stick out like a sore thumb. 

[Vigo]

This won't get you the ghosts, but this should get you the Warrior's crotch.

[yotsuya]

This won't get you the ghosts, but this should get you the Warrior's crotch.

**Snicker**

[BadMouth]

Well when I said purrrfect what I should have said was "these damn pictures are taken at funny angles and are all skew'd to hell".  The principle is sound, I just need to find a better donor photo.  Color variation I can deal with but if the shape isn't spot on it will stick out like a sore thumb. 

Did you download the Gozer Model?  The sideart looks like crap zoomed in on the onling preview, but if it looks decent in sketchup, you could just do a screen capture.

[Le Chuck]

Well when I said purrrfect what I should have said was "these damn pictures are taken at funny angles and are all skew'd to hell".  The principle is sound, I just need to find a better donor photo.  Color variation I can deal with but if the shape isn't spot on it will stick out like a sore thumb.  

Did you download the Gozer Model?  The sideart looks like crap zoomed in on the onling preview, but if it looks decent in sketchup, you could just do a screen capture.

I did, it doesn't.  He screen captured a damaged tall art and put it on his model.

Edit:  I have sent a PM to JP1 over on KLOV, he's the guy with the tall art, and we'll see if he responds and if he's willing to deal me a scaled copy of his art.  Hopefully he is as I really don't like the images I've been able to pull so far.  If not I may settle for the more common short art but we'll see.

[BadMouth]

meh, build an Atari 720° instead.
The controls part would be on par with the yoke in the mini star wars.

[Le Chuck]

I go ahold of JP1 on KLOV.  Cool guy, he's scaling down the art for me, we're ironing out details now but it looks like I'll have the tall sideart for gauntlet... scaled from the current master file too boot. 

I have the side panels cut and flush trimmed for both cabs and have the panel and reinforcement diagraming done on Gauntlet.  Tron needs interior measurements.  I have enough to get started but I still have some holes to fill.  I'm going to download Gozer's TRON rev 2 on sketchup and slam my face against the keyboard until I learn how to use that infernal program.  I should get some relatively accurate measurements off that which can be quickly certified by a yet to be named third part who owns a TRON and is willing to help a brother out (applications are being accepted for this position). 

I don't like the buttons I got from Digikey so there is like 8 bucks wasted.  Time to try again.  The joysticks came in, making the trigger stick is going to a wee challenge but I think I have a plan. 

meh, build an Atari 720° instead.
The controls part would be on par with the yoke in the mini star wars.

Love that cab.  If you thought the yoke was impressive lemme tell ya, an arcade accurate scaled 720 spinner would probably cause the world to uncreate itself.  I'm not saying it's unpossible, nothing is, but it's improbable.  I would first need to port a custom build of MAME onto the caanoo just to see that controller correctly, it dizzying.  I wonder if I could use two continous turn spinners and some small gears to make a cross axel to transfer the spin and send a signal for which direction is 12 o'clock... damn you BadMouth... damn your eyes!!1!1

   

[Nephasth]

From the Gozer models I have downloaded, none have had any interior features/measurements...

[Le Chuck]

From the Gozer models I have downloaded, none have had any interior features/measurements...

Yeah I noticed that too, so I stared deleting things until I got the shapes I needed then oriented the camera to a parallel projection to get rid of that pesky perspective and ended up with this:



Which looks pretty much spot on.  The CP is a bit close to the sidepanel edge but I can fix that once I start doing my measurements.  I dropped it onto my previous scaled template and discovered they are two different shapes.  Cruised through the old jakobud thread and found that Menace posted the template I was using and found later that jakobud said it was off and that is partially why TRON never ended up on Jakobud's page.  I'm going to recut my panels to match this shape because it looks truer than the other one.  What's nice is that I now have enough shapes from what is shown to make the shroud.  I still need the shroud back art and the black light cover art tho if anybody has a TRON and wants to take some good head on pics for me.  

I feel like I'm working backwards but if this puts together well I should be able to provide full size TRON plans.  Whatchya think?



Here are the working side panels for both cabs.  I have started making my cuts for the panels but ran out of steam.  I think the wife gave me a cold bless her heart 

[Le Chuck]

I've had a busy week.  Lots of parties and games to get to but I've found a few hours to make it into the workshop.  Things are progressing well, I'm in the middle of the prime sand paint sand paint cycle and will be for the rest of the day.  I haven't started the CPs yet and need to get some more buttons as I didn't like what I ordered the first time around.  Luckily Radio Shack sent me a $25 gift cert. for my SW micro as they recognized some of their parts.  

I have the speaker grills and monitor bezels cut.  Both Caanoos are apart but not hacked.  Coin door fabrication will be started soon and I need to order the marquee lights.  I don't think I'll finish this week but I should next week I hope.  The tall art has been shipped from Canada and should arrive in a few days.  I was able to work a deal for the art with JP1 on KLOV and got a very fair deal for the prints.  I really think having the tall art is going to put this over the top.  I also confirmed that I can use a USB keyboard encoder to get multiple controls working on the caanoo so that shouldn't be an issue.  Here are some pics.


These minis probably have more pieces than their full size cousins.  It sure does seem like it sometimes.


I think I've got the shroud nailed, this is before I sanded it down to get the right taper.


Cut check on the Gauntlet




Ditto the TRON




Starting the paint process

[BadMouth]

meh, build an Atari 720° instead.
The controls part would be on par with the yoke in the mini star wars.

Love that cab.  If you thought the yoke was impressive lemme tell ya, an arcade accurate scaled 720 spinner would probably cause the world to uncreate itself.  I'm not saying it's unpossible, nothing is, but it's improbable.  I would first need to port a custom build of MAME onto the caanoo just to see that controller correctly, it dizzying.  I wonder if I could use two continous turn spinners and some small gears to make a cross axel to transfer the spin and send a signal for which direction is 12 o'clock... damn you BadMouth... damn your eyes!!1!1

You can buy a small pre-made optical encoder with an index output.
Sucks the fun right out of it, doesn't it?

After spending 3 hours clearing debris and vacuuming up MDF dust, I'm thinking these small cabs might not be such a bad idea.

[Le Chuck]

In the last few hours I have broken 3 drill bits and 5 jeweler blades leaving me with no supplies to continue work.  The coin doors are going well but I am at a standstill until my blades arrive (I saw this coming and ordered more a few days ago).  I am also waiting on more parts from Digi and some UV LED strips to come in.  Point of near pointless post is to basically say damn.  Damn.  I hate waiting. 

[Uncle Monkey]

HUGZ!!!!!!

[DaOld Man]

LeChuck, you know if you keep playing with those little things you are going to go blind... 

[Le Chuck]

LeChuck, you know if you keep playing with those little things you are going to go blind... 

I can always up the prescription on my lenses, I'm just sick of shaving my palms.

[Vigo]

I don't know what I am drooling over more here....your awesome progress or your Addams Family Pinball machine. 

[yaksplat]

I can always up the prescription on my lenses, I'm just sick of shaving my palms.

Yeah. I'll leave that one alone.... 

[Le Chuck]

Working on the spinner solution.  

The 10K pot input on the caanoo is proving to be a tough hack for the spinner.  I don't know that I'm thinking the problem through correctly.  

I got a nice small rotary encoder and I can get it acting as a spinner in one direction only.  Very smooth, nice acceleration, the whole bit.  Problem is that when I add the other axis it shorts out.  Cannoo can only handle a down or an up input, the rotary encoder sends both but one increasing and one decreasing is strength and that's how it determines left and right.  I tried mixing the X and Y axis (1 from each and a shared ground) but that doesn't work either.  It doesn't short out but it doesn't register properly.  

What I need is a rotary encoder that only sends a signal in the direction it is being spun.  Problem is that isn't how the deflection ones work.  Is that how the optical ones work?  Bueller?  

I know that sticking an encoder in the place of a pot won't generally work out of the box but I figure there should be a way to isolate the signals.  I may just grab a really low OHM value pot and configure it for continuous spin.  I need to get around the big signal jump when I round the horn.  I figure if I tank the OHMs and ramp up the sensitivity in MAME I might be able to even it out.  MTF.  

<edit:  Well, that idea didn't work at all.  Terrible gameplay with a continuous pot.  I'll continue to focus on the encoder> 

Oh, and somehows I may have fried, damaged, voodoo'd the power to backlight on one of my main boards.  Now it's all dark as ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  Have that query up on GPH forums but doubt I'll get any traction on that fixed.  Probably will need to scare up another board, at least I'll have a spare screen and some other components.

[darthpaul]

You are a crazy man Le Chuck  , wish I could help you but I have faith you'll figure it out .

[BadMouth]

What I need is a rotary encoder that only sends a signal in the direction it is being spun.  Problem is that isn't how the deflection ones work.  Is that how the optical ones work?  Bueller?  

Not sure if this is actually what you are asking, but optical rotary encoders work off the spacing of the two pulses (A+B),
but require some type of processing to interpret them.
i.e.  A B ...... A B ...... A B is one direction
B A ...... B A ...... B A ..... is the other direction
I don't think there is a way to use that without using a arduino or something as an interface.

I'm picturing a metal wheel as the ground, with a little flexible flap that's conductive on both sides and flips back and forth when the wheel changes direction.
or maybe a spring loaded half wheel that rides against the main wheel and rotates far enough for a patch on the left or right side to make contact depending on which direction the main wheel is being spun.  Of course, this is going to be ON/OFF not analogue.

This should already exist somewhere, but I don't know what it would be called. 

[BadMouth]

Got another idea for you.

The spinner knob slips.... 
So when you spin it to the right, it has enough grip to spin the pot all the way to the right, but then slips enough to keep turning.
Then when the user spins it back the other way, it spins the pot back to the left.

[Le Chuck]

Your flexible flap idea can be analog if the plates above and below are deflection plates.  The flip is the tricky part.  I've been looking at binary analog encoders (seems like it would work, I need analog and binary is one or the other) but they cost an arm and a leg.  More research is necessary.  I need to find your gadget, something outta be out there. 

Your slip knob idea is a good one and feasible I think, just not preferred naturally.  If the encoder didn't work so beautifully in one direction I'd go with that, but now that I've seen how ideal I can get (well half ideal right now) I don't want to settle. 

[Vigo]

Cou you have the canoo register 2 separate rotary encoders though? If it only registers let's say, a clockwise movement. Can you attach a second one flipped upside down mounted on the same shaft? Then one will read clockwise, and the other counter-clockwise.

Or am I reading the problem wrong...and I am not surprised at all if I am reading the problem wrong. 

[lcmgadgets]

Okay, if I didn't say it --BINGO! Either that, or I was attempting to say "before" but it was too many letters to type--, I'll say it now--Le Chuck, you're a genius.

...& I finally googled 'caanoo '. & I'm crying. I bought my son a psp--wish I'd known about the caanoo.

...The idea of a micro 720 does sound pretty cool...

[Le Chuck]

Vigo, you're reading it right.  I don't need the Y analog so I can double it.  I was trying to get by with a shared ground but that is sending bad juju so I think you've got it.  I have a second encoder so I can test ti but I'll want to order a few more so I can get it joined and wired rightly.  It will be interesting to see if this works tho because even spinning the wrong direction these quadrature encoders are still sending signal, just weaker than the right way.  Without anything to interrupt the weaker signal the caanoo may not interpret correctly.  That said you've got the best idea so far so I'll go with that and report back.

LCM, thanks man.  Just jailbreak the PSP and throw mame on it.  For mini's gph is king for an everyday handheld I still go with the PSP. 

[Le Chuck]

Ya know after the Star Wars I kinda thought, "well I got the hard one done up front, after that is should pretty much be cake."

And on some levels that's true, but on other levels I have realized that one micro made does not a micro expert make.  Each of these has its own unique challenges.  I am in sight of the end for the Gauntlet so I'll be finishing that one first since I don't even have all the imagery I need for TRON yet. 

I haven't been sitting on my hands just randomly changing my display name for the hell of it these past few weeks but have actually got some stuff done.  I like lists.  Let's do a list.

• TRON Coin Door - metal fabrication complete, painting complete, lighting complete, switch installation complete.  Needs faux lock
• Gauntlet Coin Doors - ditto the above, except there are two of them so it's double the ass-ache
• Both cabs painted and drilled (coin door, power switches etc) awaiting final assembly and last top coat before art installation
• All lighting for TRON on hand including the blacklights with separate 12v battery power
• One caanoo monitor cable extended and half the needed soldering complete.  Other caanoo fully operational awaiting surgery
• Tall Gauntlet sideart on hand and is bad ass - special thanks to PL1 (klov... not sure if the PL1 here is the same PL1)

I'm on my third CP for Gauntlet.  Problem with the controls, from the CP up they are 1:6 scale, but below the deck they are closer to 1:4 or 1:3 and I've had serious crowding issues to contend with. 



The top CP is what I've had to redesign to.  Gauntlet's CP was never a paragon of CP design but I'm not calling this an improvement so much as a push.

Middle is my drill pattern, as you can see the joys take up a lot of realestate.  Missing is the same large shaded area that is in the bottom picture.  That delineates the cabinet walls.  The original design made it difficult to get the buttons in place being half in the wall of the cab (choice of 1/4 MDF kinda whooping ---my bottom--- here) and some of the fire buttons were inside the joy housings.  This third attempt should balance right and left handed players by alternating them across the board and also has taken into account all the aforementioned intersection problems which I might not have had my head wrapped around fully on the first two trials... oh, and it's symmetrical now, which I like.   

If everything goes smoothly I should have the CP done and be wiring up everything by the end of the weekend.  After that I can focus on TRON where I still have a few bugs left to squish. 

Pics to come once I get fresh paint on Gauntlet. 

[PL1]

Tall Gauntlet sideart on hand and is bad ass - special thanks to PL1 (klov... not sure if the PL1 here is the same PL1)

Umm, Le Chuck/Chuckles/Prince(ess?) of Puratory, I think your recent username changes might have left you feeling a little discombobulated.   

According to earlier in this thread, you should be thanking JP1 from KLOV.

Kudos to him for the big assist.         


Scott
(PL1 on both BYOAC and KLOV)

P.S. Don't feel too bad. I once sent "LeChuck" on KLOV a PM meant for you.  I wondered why your avatar on KLOV had changed to a mounted knight from Joust.