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| Newb- Turning a San Francisco Rush cabinet into a MAME/xbox360 with HAPP FFB |
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| Impact93:
Hi guys My name is Jon and I'm from British Columbia Canada. I've been reading a lot on these forums, seems like a collective of genius hackers and moders with the time and patience to help those with no clue (ME) So... jumping right in... here is a rough list of what im trying to accomplish and the parameters (subject to change) in which i think i would like to see this come to fruition. I'm starting with a fully functional SFS:Rush cabinet. I would like to convert said cabinet to a cabinet that is capable of running multiple driving games of different variety's and i would like to have fully functioning force feedback via the HAPP force feedback that already exists in the SFSR cabinet. I realize that not all MAME games allow for force feedback, i've read a few things about MAME Hooker and how Sega Model 2 now supports force feedback, I'm not really clear on details of either of those as far as force feedback goes so i was hoping for guidance in that direction. I have set up emulators and so forth so i'm roughly aware of the software side of things but i've never bothered with FFB. I realize that this is no simple task and that it is going to take some out of the box thinking. That said, i know that this has been done before by a gentleman named TheSharkFactor using Sega Model 2 and a PS3. This of course is slightly easier than what i intend to do because so many race wheels that currently exist on the market are ps2,ps3 and PC compatible. This brings me to my first big roadbloack (of many) . In order to get my arcade cabinet to "talk" to a xbox 360 and PC I first need to find a race wheel that i can find on the market that is capable of playing both Xbox360 games and PC games, it also has to be able to communicate via POT and NOT cost a ton. As far as i understand it, race pedals and race wheels are just mechanical variants of a simple task. This simple task is the turning of a POT. Yes the POTS can be different as far as what kind of amperage goes to them but the mechanical function remains the same weather we are talking about a lap race wheel or a sit down arcade system. I have come to understand however that there are race wheels out there that do not rely on POTS in order to function. SO, my first problem is figuring out if there is a steering wheel out there that covers all my required bases. from the information that i've gathered it seems like it is possible for the Microsoft Xbox360 wheel to communicate with both PC and Xbox 360, though i'm not sure if this applies to Model2. The other problem i have is that im not sure that the Microsoft wheel is POT driven or uses a different system. Does anyone know or am i going to have to drop $60 and find out for myself? thanks for the help guys. Other problems that i'm going to have off the top of my head. -What to do about shifting? Simple buttons on the steering wheel like a F1 car? Paddles? or get really ballsy and attempt to configure the 4 speed H shifter to a 6 speed, buy a pre built and EXPENSIVE 6 speed shifter that already exists for PC and some how configure it to work with the 360....? -Amplifying the signal from the POTS if infact i can find a wheel that i'm looking for, though from what i can see thesharkfactor had already come up with a solution for that, i just don't quite understand it. |
| Impact93:
Wow, 26 views and not even 1 comment? Anyone know where I should start looking? |
| BadMouth:
--- Quote from: Impact93 on April 21, 2012, 06:15:49 pm ---I realize that not all MAME games allow for force feedback, i've read a few things about MAME Hooker and how Sega Model 2 now supports force feedback, I'm not really clear on details of either of those as far as force feedback goes so i was hoping for guidance in that direction. I have set up emulators and so forth so i'm roughly aware of the software side of things but i've never bothered with FFB. --- End quote --- FFB works great in Sega Model 2 & Supermodel. There is no steering wheel FFB support for MAME yet. Howard (author of MAMEhooker) has tinkered with it, but the changes have not been incorporated into the MAME drivers yet. --- Quote from: Impact93 on April 21, 2012, 06:15:49 pm ---I realize that this is no simple task and that it is going to take some out of the box thinking. That said, i know that this has been done before by a gentleman named TheSharkFactor using Sega Model 2 and a PS3. This of course is slightly easier than what i intend to do because so many race wheels that currently exist on the market are ps2,ps3 and PC compatible. --- End quote --- A few of us have done the logitech wheel hack using the same method that thesharkfactor used, but there is an issue with the wheel constantly shaking unless centering feedback is turned way down in the emulator or logitech profiler. I still have this setup on my test bench and would like to find the cause & solution, but haven't had time to mess with it in a while. Brad808 got it working well enough by tweaking each game individually until the shaking went away, but as far as I know gave up on finding servo amp settings that worked on both the pc and the ps2/3: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=115186.0 Just be forewarned, it's not plug 'n play...and plenty of people have never been able to get it to work as well as they want. --- Quote from: Impact93 on April 21, 2012, 06:15:49 pm ---This brings me to my first big roadbloack (of many) . In order to get my arcade cabinet to "talk" to a xbox 360 and PC I first need to find a race wheel that i can find on the market that is capable of playing both Xbox360 games and PC games, it also has to be able to communicate via POT and NOT cost a ton. --- End quote --- I don't have any experience with the microsoft xbox360 wheel, but a google search reveals that the windows driver for it doesn't support FFB. Don't know if the MadCatz one does. The MadCatz one is probably pot based since it only rotates 270 degrees, but I don't know for sure. --- Quote from: Impact93 on April 21, 2012, 06:15:49 pm --- As far as i understand it, race pedals and race wheels are just mechanical variants of a simple task. This simple task is the turning of a POT. Yes the POTS can be different as far as what kind of amperage goes to them but the mechanical function remains the same weather we are talking about a lap race wheel or a sit down arcade system.......-Amplifying the signal from the POTS if infact i can find a wheel that i'm looking for, though from what i can see thesharkfactor had already come up with a solution for that, i just don't quite understand it. --- End quote --- You'll have to swap out the 5k arcade pots currently in the cab with ones that are the same value of the original ones out of the wheel you are hacking. --- Quote from: Impact93 on April 21, 2012, 06:15:49 pm ----What to do about shifting? Simple buttons on the steering wheel like a F1 car? Paddles? or get really ballsy and attempt to configure the 4 speed H shifter to a 6 speed, buy a pre built and EXPENSIVE 6 speed shifter that already exists for PC and some how configure it to work with the 360....? --- End quote --- Use the 4 speed hap already in the cab and hack it to the buttons of the steering wheel you are hacking. I have never seen an xbox 360 wheel hacked. It should work the same as any other wheel hack, but you might just be the first. The reason most people use the logitech wheels is because they're fairly easy to find and the logitech profiler software. Profiler software allows you to configure all settings for the wheel for each game or emulator individually. Some emulators require the pedals to be set to combined in windows. Some require them to be set to separate. Profiler makes it a lot easier. More info in the link in my sig. |
| RamjetR:
You really need to sit down and plan exactly what it is your planning to acheive in a conversion. For me, I was building something out of nothing. Wrecked cab $100 into something fun. I wasn't aiming for authentic conversion or restoration, just a fun hobby. When you already have a working machine, you need to figure out if your intending to keep it Arcade authentic or MAME/Sim. If authentic is your goal, then pursue the oem/logitech hack a'la sharkfactor.... if not? save yourself a world of pain and find way to slot in a decent PC wheel. I spent most of my time in the build just figuring out how to mount that damn steering wheel. Check out my build photo's (in no particular order mind you) here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/113878401085172785670/albums/5706973562574671825 I'm using a G27 in my machine now, although I used a G25 for my initial sizing for dash fit. As for shifter, I have the working padels on the wheel, 6 speed H-shifter like normal and for the kicks, the original sequential on the dashboard was wired to a cheap $5 joypad I got on ebay. As were the coin slots which also work like normal gamepad buttons and are mapped to the coin button in M2Emulator etc... :) The Logitech G27 works with Every PC game (except NFS: The Run.... but thats an EA problem oddly it conflicts with a mouse?!)... It works great in both M2E and Supermodel 3. I haven't found anything that I've wanted to play, actually be held back by choosing the Logitech. Just making it look like it should be in the dashboard is the hard part. Choosing the right screen.... the right screen will make or break all of your effort. I'm not familiar with the condition of your machine, but if it's CRT and looks good, you may want to stick with that. Otherwise if LCD replacement is what your looking at, then seriously, don't skimp on the LCD... a cheap poor contrast and poor viewing angle will make all of your efforts look terrible. If you have the space, get nice samsung HD in there. You'll thank me when you do. Model 2 Emulator looks a-m-a-z-i-n-g on a Samsung 40" D6600 LCD. But it's worth taking a laptop into a store and seeing what it looks like from an arm's length away before you commit to buying something!!! Youtube Channel for ideas: http://www.youtube.com/user/ramjetr?feature=mhee Don't forget to post pics of your build. Everyone is happy to help, but not everyone frequents the site daily.... it takes quite a bit of effort to collate and respond in an informative way to help you. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with :) Ramjet |
| Impact93:
:applaud: Thanks guys! Those simple observations have made a world of difference. I really appreciate the input. Its hard to know which direction to go when you wade out into this quagmire of information that is based on building a driving cab. My main goal in this project was to have some force feedback that would actually feel like something. I dont have much experience with PC wheel force feedback but i've always heard that they are pretty damn weak, hence the reason i would put myself thru the torture of trying to cobble together something that would take advantage of the big ole force feedback thats already in the SFS.Rush. the more i read though, the more it seems like people are pretty satisfied with the G27 as far as FFB goes. I'm not aiming for anything but fun and the ability to play as many race games as possible that use force feedback. I love everything from Gran Tourismo to Hydro Thunder. I dont really care about restoring this Rush cabinet back to its original form. I picked it up for $200 and it happens to all work but 1 game on such a giant cab is not enough, i need many games on this thing if I'm going to justify its space. The CRT in this rush cabinet looks AMAZING, no burn in and clear colors, its a beaut. I'd love to keep it if i could. I've heard a few people mention Viletim's monitor conversion or something like that? apparently its supposed to make it pretty easy to keep the CRT... though i dont know why that would be an issue. to be honest, i havent even considered what screen i would use or HOW it would hook up to a PC or PS3. Thanks RamJet and Badmouth. My current thought process has now changed! I will be getting a G27 or equivalent (i have an opportunity to buy a and fitting it to my cab. I just hope the FFB isn't lame The SFS.Rush cab seems like it is quite willing to accept a new steering wheel setup, the cab is setup in such a way that the steering wheel lowers to the ground once you remove 2 screws, this steering wheel is in an open box with hinges on it, simple but from what i can see, could be quite useful as far as swapping steering wheel setups. We shall find out. I already have Model 2 running on my pc so that should give me access to a few games right away, do i need to do anything special with model 2 besides control set up to get the FFB working? Thanks again for the help gentlemen. Now the next bridge i need to cross is... Used G27 from craiglist or New? |
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