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Author Topic: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - Experimenting with DIY trackball  (Read 127120 times)

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BadMouth

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - Inching forward: CP wiring harness
« Reply #120 on: September 29, 2013, 01:52:30 pm »
I might have missed it, but how do you make sure the while control panel won't slide during an overenthousiastic two player battle?

Originally I thought I'd need something to lock it in each position, but the T-track doesn't have bearings, so it has a fair amount of resistance when sliding.  If it turns out to not be enough, I'll put a large nylon washer on one of the bolts between the T-track to the CP.  The current washers are small so there is clearance.  A larger one would drag against the edges of the bottom channel and resistance could be adjusted by tightening the nut inside the CP.

I don't think it will be necessary though.  The Sanwa JLFs I'm using are fairly short and have light springs, so there isn't much leverage.
It might be a different story with a traditional arcade stick.

WakiMiko

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - Inching forward: CP wiring harness
« Reply #121 on: October 05, 2013, 05:55:01 pm »
Glad to help.  A quick search on ebay turned up this one which is 2"/sec :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linear-Actuator-6-inch-stroke-35-lbs-force-12VDC-Progressive-Automations-Inc-/281169914543?hash=item4177086aaf

Followed that to their website, which has some crazy fast 9"/sec ones!
http://www.progressiveautomations.com/actuators-tubular-high-speed-linear-actuator-c-68.aspx

Thanks, but i think 1.5''/sec is fast enough, judging by your video. Or would you have preferred a faster one for your cabinet?

BadMouth

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RE: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - Inching forward: CP wiring harness
« Reply #122 on: October 05, 2013, 07:31:10 pm »
I think the speed of mine is perfect, but you could slow a faster one down in the pololu software.  If I could find more like mine for the same price, I'd buy a couple more.

sent from my phone while driving

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - Inching forward: CP wiring harness
« Reply #123 on: October 11, 2013, 08:07:33 am »
Awesome work so far man. Keep it up. I look forward to seeing this thing completed.

BadMouth

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/14 Serial Plate
« Reply #124 on: October 14, 2013, 09:05:45 pm »
Any feedback on my serial plate?
(wording and possible missing punctuation is true to the original)



Original for reference:


I was going to do a play on SNK.  I did SKUNK in the original lettering (as in skunkworks), but I wanted the BYOAC atom logo on there too and it was just too crowded.  I plan to use adhesive to attach it to the cab instead of screws since that's how the original ones were.

Also threw together a quick PC game layout using MKK wallpaper.  I'm unsure if the vid window will play widescreen.  I'm hoping so.
I'm in the process of downloading vids from youtube, but can't find exactly what I want, so will have to edit them.


Left to do:
>Set up Pololu servo controller & joychoose to control 4/8 way switching.
>Make default instruction card for the move list holder that will rest at the bottom of the monitor bezel.
>Add AHK scripts for some of the PC games to hide the mouse pointer
>Artwork should be done before too much longer, when that's done I'll get into cutting the final CP top, plexi, etc.

BadMouth

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/14 Serial Plate
« Reply #125 on: October 15, 2013, 10:08:27 am »
Here is what I'm thinking for the instruction card.  This is only one small end of it.  It is 4" tall and 30.5" long.
It's an early draft.  Some of the pics suck, but I want to get the concept solidified.


EDIT: ARCH RIVALS IS WRONG

I can never remember what the buttons do in sports games.  I doubt I add too many more.
The whole thing won't follow this format.  There will be different sections laid out differently for other games or genres.
I'm thinking....the button layout for Namco, Capcom, & Midway fighting games, Dungeons & Dragons, etc. 

It will just be sandwiched between two sheets of thin plexi that rest in a notch on the CP and lean against the Marquee bezel.
Complete moves lists will be printed for fighting games, although the number of characters in newer games is making it hard.
This will be the default one, which will cover a wide variety of games that I think warrant it.

I haven't dug through my gamelists yet to see what I've missed.
Can anyone think of other games it would be nice to have a quick button reference for?

EDIT: PL1's list from when I asked a similar question in the Main Forum
Here are a few to consider including:
Asteroids
Defender
Gravitar
Killer Instinct
Primal Rage
Shinobi
Stargate
Tekken
XMen: CotA
XMen
XMen vs. SF
Xybots
Atari 2600 Emulator: Select and Reset buttons
NES Emulator: Select and Start buttons
Other emulator specific buttons as applicable.


Scott

After looking at Scott's list, I think I might try to divide it into thirds with sports, classics, & fighters.
I really didn't think the classics would be an issue, but the ones mentioned are definitely must-haves.
This can also end up being 2-sided if necessary. 
Might end up making the other side for PC games if not used for arcade ones.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 11:16:02 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #126 on: October 15, 2013, 03:21:12 pm »
Looking good,

I love all the details.

 

WakiMiko

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #127 on: October 16, 2013, 09:17:24 pm »
On your serial plate, the bottom text (everything after and including "U.S. Federal ...") doesn't seem to be left aligned like it is in the original. Other than that, it's looks pretty damn good.

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #128 on: October 17, 2013, 05:03:19 pm »
Sweet setup.  Cool idea with the sliding CP as well.  And I like your serial plate.

BadMouth

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #129 on: October 17, 2013, 06:17:22 pm »
On your serial plate, the bottom text (everything after and including "U.S. Federal ...") doesn't seem to be left aligned like it is in the original. Other than that, it's looks pretty damn good.

Thanks for the feedback.  I kept thinking it looked a little off, but other times it looked right to me.
The spacing was really weird on the original.  I had to drag each word into place over a picture of the real one.
They should be aligned on the left though.

Sweet setup.  Cool idea with the sliding CP as well.  And I like your serial plate.

Thanks.

I tested out a bunch of different springs and some oversized actuators for the JLFs, but haven't taken the time to do a write-up.
Tiny silencer pads for the buttons were a complete bust.  Full size (better designed) ones and different circular restrictors from focusattack should be here tomorrow.  After I get a chance to try them out, I'll do a post about all of it.  I tried 5 different springs, two different actuators (+stock) and will try two different circular restrictors, so it should be good info for others who want to narrow down what they might want without having to buy it all.

Still working on my instruction sheet at the moment.

Marquee is done.  Hopefully the CP won't be much longer and I'll have the instruction card ready to go by then.

Yvan256

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #130 on: October 18, 2013, 04:41:53 pm »
I'm going to "borrow" your serial plate design for MVS-99-6 if you don't mind.  ;)

As for your instruction cards, I'm thinking a mini-LCD above the buttons or a single mini-LCD in the middle top of the control panel that changes when you select a game, similar to LCD marquees.

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #131 on: October 18, 2013, 04:47:24 pm »
They should be aligned on the left though.
I assure you, they are not lined up on the picture you posted.
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BadMouth

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #132 on: October 19, 2013, 04:07:50 pm »
Current state of the instruction card:


I tried to stay true to the original layouts even though I do better on most games with a different one.
The bottom middle button just feels wrong for Block in Mortal Kombat in this layout because it's even with low kick.
Top middle feels much better.

The shoot/jump/special of Shinobi doesn't really warrant a card IMO.  Pretty much standard beat 'em up.
But I needed one more three button game and couldn't come up with anything else I wanted on there.
I can still add or remove games if I think of something else.

The whole point of this is to get into the games and enjoy them, rather than just button mashing for a few minutes and switching games.

I'll probably make one that just says "The Future is Now." and put it on the backside so the holder can be flipped over.
Once the machine is all the way complete, I'll get full move lists for the fighting games printed as I get into them.




BadMouth

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #133 on: October 20, 2013, 11:19:52 pm »
I'm going to "borrow" your serial plate design for MVS-99-6 if you don't mind.  ;)

As for your instruction cards, I'm thinking a mini-LCD above the buttons or a single mini-LCD in the middle top of the control panel that changes when you select a game, similar to LCD marquees.

One close to the original attached as a PNG if it helps.  It should be the correct size at 300dpi.
I also have it as a paint.net file (.pdn) which has layers if that would help.

The PC and video card I'm using are just barely powerful enough to run some of the games I like.
Adding a second monitor chokes it enough to cause slowdown and sound skips in those games.

I've explored the concept before.  I even did a proof of concept with a touchscreen program called touchbuddy where each player could cycle through move lists for characters in a fighting game (have the move list cards as different button state images).
In the end, it was going to be a huge time sink and I'd rather work on other things.  That, and I lose interest after I know something will work.   :P

Yvan256

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/15 Instruction Card WIP
« Reply #134 on: October 20, 2013, 11:32:52 pm »
One close to the original attached as a PNG if it helps.  It should be the correct size at 300dpi.
I also have it as a paint.net file (.pdn) which has layers if that would help.

Thanks, the PNG will suffice as a template. I do not use Windows, so I can not use a .pdn file.


The PC and video card I'm using are just barely powerful enough to run some of the games I like. Adding a second monitor chokes it enough to cause slowdown and sound skips in those games.

I've explored the concept before.  I even did a proof of concept with a touchscreen program called touchbuddy where each player could cycle through move lists for characters in a fighting game (have the move list cards as different button state images). In the end, it was going to be a huge time sink and I'd rather work on other things.  That, and I lose interest after I know something will work.   :P

I was thinking about a tablet installed at the middle top of the control panel that would have all the images in local storage and simply receive a "display controls for game xyz" command from the main PC when selecting a game.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 09:11:10 am by Yvan256 »

BadMouth

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/20 JLF mod products testing
« Reply #135 on: October 28, 2013, 11:35:08 pm »
Threw this together this evening while watching football.....




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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/20 JLF mod products testing
« Reply #136 on: October 29, 2013, 10:47:08 pm »
Nice flyer!

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/20 JLF mod products testing
« Reply #137 on: October 30, 2013, 08:16:24 am »
Nice flyer!

agreed! but *maybe* add/replace in a neogeo game to the bottom?
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BadMouth

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Re: Neo Geo Evolution (EVS-1) - 10/20 JLF mod products testing
« Reply #138 on: October 30, 2013, 09:01:37 am »
Nice flyer!

agreed! but *maybe* add/replace in a neogeo game to the bottom?

Yeah, should have put in one of the Taito Type X SNK Playmore titles.
I don't plan to spend any more time on it (although it would be cool to do all the original ads). 
I thought it would be fun and reminiscent of PixelHugger's flyers.

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - Playing with old NEO GEO advertisements
« Reply #139 on: November 13, 2013, 06:18:37 pm »
It looks like your actuator actually has feedback (the yellow, blue, white wires), meaning you wouldn't have needed limit switches at all because you can tell it via software how far it should go  :P

BadMouth

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - Playing with old NEO GEO advertisements
« Reply #140 on: November 13, 2013, 11:10:51 pm »
It looks like your actuator actually has feedback (the yellow, blue, white wires), meaning you wouldn't have needed limit switches at all because you can tell it via software how far it should go  :P

Yup, has a built in potentiometer.  I didn't put as much into learning the software as I should have.
The original setup with the limit switches was designed to work using the printer port. 
It wasn't until I gave up on getting the printer port working with Vista64, that I switched to the pololu controller. 



I've been making lots of progress on the cab, but it's stuff you'd assume was already done.  :lol
Finally grounded the audio panel and coin door, organized the wiring, switched the fans over to 5v so they're quieter,
crimped some ends on the wires hanging by the coin switches and hooked those up, fixed a lot of small software issues, etc.
Got a LOT of loose ends tied up.

What follows is more random stuff that progress has haphazardly been made on, but hey...it's progress.

I hadn't originally planned for this cab to be connected to the internet, but got into Steam and changed my mind.  To avoid having to mess with any extra wiring outside the cab, I installed a powerline adapter that transmits the signal through the electric cord.  It didn't work so well when plugged into the power strip, so I installed a splitter before the power strip.  Seemed to be working good at first, but then got flaky.  It turned out to be a software issue caused by me disabling services, but before I figured that out, I made this nifty Ethernet port (I don't like the looks of the neutrik ones):

Started with a panel mount extension:


Grinded the sides off of it:


Until it fit in a cut up power inlet from an old PC:


JB welded in place from the back, then topped off with liquid electrical tape in front.  This turned out to be a mistake.  I thought the liquid tape would pool and make a shiny black surface.  It kinda did, but not as smooth as I thought it would be.  It would have looked much better if I'd filled with bondo and spray painted.  Since it's on the back, I don't care enough to redo it. Still need to pick up some mounting screws.

(used a black sharpie to touch up the edges of the cut area.  Apparently I slipped.  I did not notice any of this before looking at the pic.  Guess I should run the paint roller over that area)

Been setting up HLSL separately for each resolution.  I'm finding that the theoretical best settings for the really low resolution games look like crap on a monitor this big.
Using pics of the real games on original hardware for reference, the results are pretty awesome:

My method is to find a section of the screen where the lines are easily counted and then make sure HLSL has the correct number of lines, then get the size and darkness of them to match.
I wish the curved edges of the pincushioned image were smoother and the corners were more rounded, so I might try to make a .lay overlay that has the look I want.

CP art is evolving:

The idea is something between the original NEO GEO and modern candy cabs.
Pixelhugger is doing the art.  Part of the deal when he agreed to take the job was that I realized that he didn't have much spare time to work on it, so it will be done whenever it is done.
The part that says evolution will probably be different by the time it's done.  Maybe NEO GEO in the bump out area, and evolution stretched across the whole bottom...

Need to work on next:
Make HLSL settings for a few more resolutions.
Redesign exit button art and print on sheet along with serial plate.
Set up Joychoose and pololu controller for 4/8 way switching.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 01:24:29 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - Playing with old NEO GEO advertisements
« Reply #141 on: November 19, 2013, 02:09:35 pm »
Awesome project.
The artwork is amazing.

BadMouth

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - Playing with old NEO GEO advertisements
« Reply #142 on: November 21, 2013, 08:29:32 pm »
Finally got around to wrapping the 4/8 way switching up.
Ran into an issue caused by recent changes in the joystick descriptions in mame.xml, but was able to manually correct it.
More info on that here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,117692.0.html

pcbs not mounted, some twist and taping going on.  It will be mounted properly when I make a new cp top.  Waiting to have artwork as a template before making it.


Never did do a vid of the screen rotation triggered by the front end, so shot a short one:


Still need to fine tune the splash screen.  Especially for emulators other than MAME.

The to-do list is getting pretty short as long as I don't let the feature creep back in.....yet.  ;D

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - 4/8 way switching completed
« Reply #143 on: November 22, 2013, 09:03:05 pm »
Great work Badmouth!
I like the usb in the old power entry idea. Will have to remember that one.
Looks like your joystick switch has worked out good too.

BadMouth

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - I don't ever want to finish!
« Reply #144 on: January 13, 2014, 10:59:29 pm »
Well, the end of the year came and went and the cab still isn't done.  :lol
Still waiting on the artwork design, but there are other things that need done too.

I didn't like the cheap mylar tweeters, so have been on the lookout for some silk dome ones with a compatible mounting plate.
.....how about the exact same mounting plate.   ;D


Got these installed and they accomplished everything I'd hoped.  The mylar ones were very directional so they sounded completely different when playing seated vs standing.
The silk domes are smoother and not nearly as directional.

I really like having Steam games on this cab, but they are getting more and more difficult to set up controls for unless you're using xbox 360 controllers.
There are workarounds in most cases, but the last few I did were a serious PITA, so I've decided to switch to pad hacks.
Injustice:Gods Among Us was the one that put me over the edge.  Gonna add some sports games after I get these in.
Picked up NBA2K14 cheap and have Madden '08 with updated rosters.  Not sure how big of a difference not having analog controls will make.
They play ok with a d-pad, so should play ok with a standard joystick.

I picked up a pair of Mad Catz street fighter x tekken fight pads.  These are a good bit smaller than the old SSFIV fight pads.
I like them much better, they remind me more of Sega Genesis controllers.


More compact, common ground and the solder points look pretty easy.



Hopefully I'll have enough time tomorrow evening to get both of them done.


Oh and if you missed it in the everything else subforum, the cab has had a faint burning smell which has gotten worse recently.
Turned out to be this:


Unsure of the exact cause, but it was probably the cable.  It was an old random pc power cable that was laying around.
I ordered a new 14 gauge one with a 15A rating and a new power inlet.  If you smell a faint burning smell, don't wait to track it down!

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - I never want to finish
« Reply #145 on: January 13, 2014, 11:27:57 pm »
I know it sounds silly, but how much amperage are you pulling through that single cable?   That's one of the single of pulling more than a cable can handle...  the connection points are where the most resistance is...  and resistance = heat. 

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - I never want to finish
« Reply #146 on: January 14, 2014, 03:22:44 am »
Glad you caught that before it got any worse, BadMouth.   :o

A strong possibility is that the scorched power-cable hot contact was worn, slightly bent open, dirty, or corroded.

Any of those conditions could result in a high-resistance connection.

The high-resistance connection will dissipate some of the power passing thru as heat.

The heat will cause the metal to expand slightly and/or corrode faster, which leads to a higher-resistance connection.

The vicious circle continues until the connection causes an electrical fire.

This is why you always want clean, corrosion-free, mechanically-solid and low-resistance (<2 ohms) power connections.


Scott

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - I don't ever want to finish!
« Reply #147 on: January 14, 2014, 08:52:43 am »
Oh and if you missed it in the everything else subforum, the cab has had a faint burning smell which has gotten worse recently.
Turned out to be this:


Unsure of the exact cause, but it was probably the cable.  It was an old random pc power cable that was laying around.
I ordered a new 14 gauge one with a 15A rating and a new power inlet.  If you smell a faint burning smell, don't wait to track it down!
Dude that freaks me out. That is the same way I was going to hook mine up. I even have an old PC cord that is sitting and ready to be plugged in. I'm glad you posted this here.
My past arcade builds - Click to enlarge and get a closer look

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - I don't ever want to finish!
« Reply #148 on: January 14, 2014, 09:28:11 am »
Dude that freaks me out. That is the same way I was going to hook mine up. I even have an old PC cord that is sitting and ready to be plugged in. I'm glad you posted this here.

That's how I do my cabinets too. There's nothing wrong with doing it like this assuming nothing is faulty, and the socket/plug/cable can handle the current draw.

Glad it got noticed before something caught fire...

BadMouth

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - I want to finish
« Reply #149 on: July 03, 2014, 10:09:12 am »
Quote
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

sigh.

No pics, but hey it's an update. (maybe I'll add a pic of the hacked fightpads when I get home....as if nobody has seen one before)
Maybe it will push me to wrap this thing up.

Here's some rambling:

Pixelhugger finished the Marquee and main part of the CP.  I'm still waiting on the back part, but will probably go ahead and get the stuff I have printed so the final CP top can be made and controls mounted for the final time.

I'm in the process of remapping everything in my cab to the hacked xbox360 fightpads.
This is primarily for better compatibility with newer Steam games.
The keyboard encoder is still in there with a single button connected for ESC.

After getting about halfway through, I must say that keyboard encoders probably are still the best choice for most people.

When I hacked the fightpads, I hot glued the switch in the d-pad position.
Well, it turns out that Limbo and Locolomito's games only use the left analog stick.
So I pick out the hot glue, change the output to LS, and start remapping again.
Everything works fine until I get to Makaron.  It can't use analog sticks for digital directions. 
Even if I switch back to the D-pad (which I probably will), it can't use the triggers for digital inputs either and my sixth button is RT.
That messes up Marvel Vs Capcom 2.  My computer falls short of running some important games full speed in Demul, so I'm stuck with Makaron.
So it's the autohotkey scripts or xpadder workaround, where no workaround was required before.

Things aren't perfect in Steam land either.  As said earlier, the d-pad didn't work in Limbo.
Two of my games (castle crashers and NBA2k14) require the left trigger. 
I only put 7 buttons on the cab, so I don't have an LT button.
Castle Crashers requires LT for block and can't be remapped if using an xbox360 controller.  ::)

While I hate the default MAME keys for the first four buttons, the keyboard encoder still enjoys the most compatibility with the widest variety of emulators.
The x360kb workaround that allows you to use a keyboard for steam is actually superior to an original controller for the games that don't allow you to remap the controls.

I won't be switching back though.  I like the modern, high definition widescreen fighting games too much.
I can finally play Injustice on my cab without using any workarounds and the buttons displayed onscreen match my button labels.
The Steam games with simpler control schemes are pretty much plug and play.  No time spent testing various workarounds trying to find one that works.
There are also a lot of games on Steam that have issues with the control scheme for multiple local players.  Both can't use the same keyboard, or only one can use a dinput controller.  The only thing that just works every time is xbox360 controllers. 
 
On the flipside though, I'm having to go back and apply workarounds to older emulators that worked just fine with the keyboard encoder.
It's just trading one set of workarounds for another.  If not running newer PC games, I'd stick with the old tried and true keyboard encoder.

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - artwork in, marquee finished
« Reply #150 on: July 21, 2014, 09:11:46 pm »
A little progress! 

The artwork arrived today.  It was printed by Lucian045: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,134866.0.html




I was tired, but had to at least get the marquee in this evening.
It's hard to accurately capture how the marquee looks in person.  It doesn't look as washed out as it does in the pics.
That said, I may try lowering the voltage to the LEDs to dim them a little.

It had a little light bleed on the edges despite having a layer of thin white foam tape on the inside edges of the CP box.
I rolled a little butyl rubber from a sound deadener mat into a long thin strand and pushed it into the corner between the plexi and side panels.  It got rid of the light bleed, but took a lot of finessing with the edge of a credit card to get looking nice and uniform.




Even looks good when not lit.


I'm hoping to be able to make time to do the CP next week, even if I have to miss work to get it done.   ;D
After that, I'd like to make an emblem for the center of the speaker shroud and maybe large ones for the sides of the cab.

current state:
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 09:15:27 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - artwork in, marquee finished
« Reply #151 on: July 21, 2014, 11:14:25 pm »
That's looking really good man. Sorry about all the problems you're having with the controls.

So ultimately...if you want to play the widest range of games, you'd suggest using a keyboard encoder instead of a pair of xbox controllers?

My setup would be similar to yours, but I wouldn't be playing all of the steam games. Just the fighters like SFIV, KOF13 & MK9. Everything else I'd just use a controller on my regular desktop.

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - artwork in, marquee finished
« Reply #152 on: July 22, 2014, 02:31:12 pm »
That's looking really good man. Sorry about all the problems you're having with the controls.

So ultimately...if you want to play the widest range of games, you'd suggest using a keyboard encoder instead of a pair of xbox controllers?

My setup would be similar to yours, but I wouldn't be playing all of the steam games. Just the fighters like SFIV, KOF13 & MK9. Everything else I'd just use a controller on my regular desktop.

Eh, setting up the controls hasn't been horrible.  I just ran into more need for workarounds than expected.


If you're going to run a wide variety of emulators including consoles and aren't worried about modern steam games, then a keyboard encoder not using the MAME defaults for the first four buttons (CTRL,ALT,etc) will provide the most compatibility with the fewest workarounds.  In addition to the issue of those keys being used in hotkey combinations (which can be disabled), some emulators just don't support them.

I was running a Key Wiz and had enough extra inputs to just not use the ones that post the MAME defaults (the other pins I used posted v b n m).  The Key Wiz has been great, but it doesn't store any alternate mappings.  They must be uploaded to it by the uploader software every time you start the computer.  The uploader software has given people headaches on some PCs and even if it works, it makes the bootup process more complicated than it needs to be.
The I-Pac from Ultimarc can be reprogrammed to post different keys and will retain the settings in the device itself.  It has two less inputs, but if there are four on the key wiz you don't want to use anyway then you're actually gaining two pins.

Most people use gamepads with emulators so there are workarounds out there for just about everything, but it's nice to just have the device work directly and not have to mess with anything else.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 02:57:19 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1)
« Reply #153 on: July 27, 2014, 12:36:53 pm »
Had some plans cancelled yesterday so used the time to inch forward on the cab.

Of the few builds I've done, none of them ever had CP art.  I didn't realize how much of a pain alignment was going to be.
My artwork was printed with extra black around all edges, so I had no edge to use as a reference point.
For the back part, I had the center button as a nice reference point, so I drilled a hole and put a nail through it, then passed that through a hole punched in the button drilling mark on the artwork.  From there I drew some lines on the panel to make sure the center button and two outside buttons were all on the same plane.  Then I marked the other button locations with a hammer an nail.



The main CP was done the same way, but since no center point was available I just marked centers on edge of the panel & artwork, then aligned and taped them together.  I wasn't good about taking pics.  Just wanted to make progress.  I got everything centered, then made sure the top buttons on both sides were on the same plane and at the right distance from the back, then punched the template with a hammer and small nail.

To make sure that my button spacing didn't shift when drilling the holes, I started with a tiny drill bit, followed by a larger one, followed by the hole saw.  I don't know if anyone else does their button holes this way, but I like to drill halfway from one side, then finish from the other.  It makes for a clean edge on both sides.  It also makes the plug easier to remove from the hole saw since it will already be halfway sticking out of the hole saw.


Dunno what happened here, but the location of this button was off.  My artwork is right.  All the buttons around it are right.
I must have mistook some other mark on the wood for the right spot when drilling the pilot hole.  I didn't want to start over, so I glued in a plug and redrilled it.  getting the location right without having the center points of the other holes as a reference anymore took a little work.





Holes in acrylic were cut with a dremel, router attachment, & drywall bit.  The drywall bit is just a solid cylinder at the end, so it can trace whatever is underneath.  (starting holes were predrilled with a regular bit).  I had a brain fart when buying the acrylic and thought I needed a 32" piece for the CP.  I was excited that they happened to have a 32" piece available.  Unfortunately on the way home, I remembered that although the cab is 32", the CP is 34".  :banghead:  Back to the home improvement store today I guess.


Instead of routing out 3/4" material I cut the button holes out of 1/4" and access areas out of 1/2", then glued them together.
I got a bit lazy with the recess area, but it won't be seen and I really just wanted to push forward.
I still had to route out the areas for the sanwa joystick s-plates since they needed to be an odd depth.
The vertical strip across the back is for rigidity since the back edge doesn't rest on anything.


I sprayed some primer/leveler on the front edge of the back panel that will be exposed, but it's nowhere near smooth enough.
Gonna have to use some filler.



The plexi on the back part doesn't go all the way back, so it can prop up the moves lists.  I'll use the wrong size plexi that was bought yesterday to make a taller holder for modern horizontal fighting games.  (corners of CP will be rounded when it is finished)





« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 12:49:08 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - some CP progress
« Reply #154 on: July 29, 2014, 12:02:13 am »
I've screwed up so many CP corners with jigsaws it's not funny.  The blade always bends and then I clean it up with a random orbital sander which ends up rounding the top edges so they dip below the top edge of the t-molding.  This time I did it right and rounded the corners with a router and template.



In my last post I thought I had screwed up the placement on the D button on player 2 because it didn't match player 1.
Well, this evening came the realization that I had screwed up the D button of Player 1, then proceeded to change player 2 to match it!   :cry:



The CP and plexi were already cut so I decided that unless I messed up the plexi or the CP somehow, I was going to accept it for the sake of moving forward.  The placement isn't any more or less comfortable, but it does run off the button area on the artwork.

Applying the CP art went amazingly well.  I ended up with one little spot where a speck of something got trapped under it.  (the pic looks like there are two, but only the top one is actually there).  I used a tack cloth before starting, but something must have fallen off the backing as I was working with it.  Otherwise, the CP art went down and aligned flawlessly.  For all the things that could have gone wrong, I'm very happy to only have this tiny little imperfection.  This stuff does where out the x-acto blades very quickly though.  Make sure you have a few extra before starting.



Location of the D button on the artwork not perfect, but not horrendous.


Looking all glossy under plexi.   ;D


I didn't apply the artwork to the back portion of the CP yet because it may need modified for the T-molding of the main CP to clear when it slides.  I'll figure that out after applying the t-molding tomorrow.

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - some CP progress
« Reply #155 on: July 29, 2014, 01:50:05 am »
Dude that is looking seriously awesome! Great work so far. Keep it up!   :cheers:

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - some CP progress
« Reply #156 on: July 31, 2014, 12:11:33 pm »
This looks incredible, I'm really impressed.  I'm also pleased to see someone else using the 4-3 button layout instead of the 3-3-1, which is what drew me to this thread.  BadMouth, I'm curious about one thing.

You mentioned that you ultimately set your buttons up as:
Code: [Select]
1 2 3 7
4 5 6

Had you considered linking D and X to the same button?  So that it would be:
Code: [Select]
1 2 3 4
4 5 6

In my experience, this requires no custom input mapping for either Capcom or Neo Geo games.  If you considered this and decided against it, what were your reasons?  What advantage does keeping them separate provide?  Thanks very much.

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - some CP progress
« Reply #157 on: July 31, 2014, 01:07:23 pm »
You mentioned that you ultimately set your buttons up as:
Code: [Select]
1 2 3 7
4 5 6

Had you considered linking D and X to the same button?  So that it would be:
Code: [Select]
1 2 3 4
4 5 6

In my experience, this requires no custom input mapping for either Capcom or Neo Geo games.  If you considered this and decided against it, what were your reasons?  What advantage does keeping them separate provide?  Thanks very much.

Hadn't considered that, but you're right it wouldn't require remapping either Capcom or Neo Geo games in MAME.  I don't see any reason not to do the default mappings that way.  :cheers:
For Neo Geo games I actually did map both D and X to button #4 in game.  I discovered that I like using my thumb for the fourth Neo Geo button instead.
I wouldn't actually wire the buttons together though because of PC/Steam games.  Although you can get by with 6 buttons for the fighting games currently available, the 7th one does come in handy.  I use D for "tag" consistently throughout games that allow you to switch characters while fighting.

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - some CP progress
« Reply #158 on: August 01, 2014, 11:54:17 am »
Had a rough evening yesterday and developed a "screw it, just get it together no matter how half-assed" attitude.
I was in a rush, trying to get done before I had to start mowing the yard in time to finish before dark. 
(ended up finishing with some daylight to spare, but in the rain)

All issues were the result of a lack of planning, but when I try to plan out everything I never seem to make it out of the planning stage.

The biggest issue was that the area I routed out for the plastic JLF bodies wasn't deep enough.  So I took to it with a dremel and cylinder shaped grinding stone.  It worked, but somehow got sawdust between the artwork and plexi so I had to remove all the buttons, clean everything and reassemble.  Next, it was discovered that the connectors on the end of the Spark CE PCBs would also need an area routed out, so the process was repeated again.  This is stuff I should have tested before applying the artwork.  I tested the mounting plates a half dozen times, but never with the joystick body in them.  I had an oversized area routed out for the bodies, so I thought I was good.  The depth being wrong never crossed my mind.

I was planning on having to rout a curve into the edge of the back CP to get the separate CPs as close together as possible, but it didn't cross my mind that I might also have to cut the curve into the side panel of the cab.  I didn't want to do that, so just ended up with a slightly larger gap between them equal to the thickness of the t-molding.  Another route would have been to square off the back corners of the CP and just have the t-molding stop at the back of the sides.  I thought that would look odd though.


Nothing pretty here.  I waited until just before applying the artwork to give in and go with a piano hinge.  I wanted to do a completely removable, dowel aligned, lift out setup.  Never seemed to find the time to work it out.  In my mind, I thought wider piano hinges with two staggered rows of mounting holes were readily available.  The selection at the local hardware stores would prove otherwise.  To make matters worse, the hinge needed to extend past the edge of the sides, which stuck out farther than the board the hinge is mounted to.  this put the mounting holes close to the edge of the piece of MDF they would be screwed into.  I drilled new holes closer to the edge.  I don't feel very warm and fuzzy about this mounting method, but it feels solid for now.  We'll see after a few months of play.  I plan to fill in the extra t-molding slot and paint the back edge, but I wanted it playable again first!

The wiring will look better once I throw on some zip ties.  It would look a lot better if cut to length, but I'm not going to bother with it.
All the pcbs are screwed down to the bottom of the CP.

For all the things that were screwed up and feel half-assed, the end result when closed looks pretty finished.  :)


back to playable!  :lol
(not sure why my cell phone camera pics have looked so crappy lately)


Still to do:

> fix controls for all Taito Type X games since switching to xbox360 pcbs (versions I have only supports a controller for player 1  :-\ )
> design a logo for center of speaker shroud (may also end up on side)
> design a "The Future is Now." banner for the moves list holder that matches the rest of the cab artwork
> clean up transitions when launching/exiting some emulators
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 12:08:48 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - looking near finished anyway
« Reply #159 on: September 29, 2014, 02:10:05 pm »
Great work bud. I've been lurking these forums for a while, but am just starting to read through all builds that I can find. Especially the automated ones.

I love the motor system, as well as the audio design. I'll second or third the fact that I'm going to swipe that air vent idea however.

Can't wait to see the few details trimmed up, and maybe a reveal vid.

Thanks,
-Dave