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Raising Awareness of Japanese Parts and Button Layouts

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eds1275:

When my hands aren't getting ready to strip bark from trees and are relaxed, coming at an arcade machine at a roughly 45 degree angle, my relaxed fingers form a fairly straight line. Resting lightly on the buttons. I must be some sorta freak.

Howard_Casto:


--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on March 17, 2012, 11:56:19 am ---
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 17, 2012, 07:44:17 am ---You give me a happs joystick and I'll hold my own at street fighter II, because I've been playing on that joystick for 20 years.  You give me a sanwa stick and it's so touchy that I'll be accidentally hitting directions that I didn't mean to.  The same goes for buttons.

--- End quote ---

I never said there was zero transition period. 


--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 17, 2012, 07:44:17 am ---American controls are bigger they have bigger throws, japanese controls are smaller and have smaller throws.

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Different Japanese sticks have a whole range of engage distances and throw distances to suit different preferences and genres.  American controls are not necessarily bigger than Japanese ones, this is factually incorrect.


--- Quote from: rCadeGaming on March 17, 2012, 02:56:31 am ---In my hand I have the most common Japanese button, a Sanwa 30mm button.  In the other hand I have a Happ Competition.  The overall diameter of these is almost exactly the same, and the plunger on the Sanwa is bigger.

You can get extended shafts, bigger ball tops, and bat tops for Japanese sticks and make them just as big.  Why do they have to be huge anyway?

--- End quote ---

and again, it is not difficult to swap out springs and microswitches to alter the stiffness and "clickiness" to you liking.


--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 17, 2012, 07:44:17 am ---As I said before, one isn't superior to the other, they are simply different.

Both are equally precise, so long as we are talking about mechanical switches.

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In terms of technical accuracy, one certainly can be more precise than the other.  Different microswitches themselves can more accurate and responsive, and there is a lot going on between your hand and the switch.  The smoothness of the pivot, the amount of slop in the pivot, the amount of slop in the actuator, and other factors, all have an effect on whether on not the switches will smoothly and reliably engage at a consistent throw distance.

Regardless of user familiarity, different joysticks certainly do have different limits of how accurate they can ultimately be, and so do buttons.


--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 17, 2012, 07:44:17 am ---Of course the ultimate irony is that most arcade games these days are developed on the pc/console rigs and the developers code them while using gamepads.  So the best joystick for your modern arcade fighter is a gamepad.  ;)

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This is wrong on so many levels, let's not even get into joystick versus gamepad in this thread.

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1.  Why would I want to transition?  What I am using now works perfectly so to learn a new stick would simply waste time.

2.  Convex buttons don't count in terms of happ controls.... those are heracy on an american cab.  They never made it into the arcades.  Yes you are correct japanese sticks do come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, but the guts underneath are always smaller and the shafts are punier.  Also only one or two styles are actually used.  I mean if we are going to talk about the sticks thate are out there vs the ones that are actually popular and used on arcade machines it's going to be a complicated discussion.

3.  Again, yes, I could tweak the heck out of some sticks and buttons, or I could just buy the ones that already work flawlessly and not have to do a thing.

4.  They are all equally accurate because they are digital switches, there is off and on.  You are confused by the fact that with some switches you have to press harder, ect.... that's personal preference..... so long as a switch throws when it's pressed and releases when it doesn't then it is working perfectly.  Of course there are lower quality sticks and switches on either side, but we aren't talking about those we are talking about what people actually use.  


The example I would use is light switches in your home.  There are the "fat" switches with the huge plastic surface that you can bump and the 50+ year old blade switches. They have a physically different control to turn on/off lights but internally they are almost identical.  But do you know what the real difference between the two is?  About 8 bucks.  I can get the old swtiches for around 65 cents while the "better" ones are 8 to 9 dollars.  The both function the same and serve their purpose perfectly.


See the problem with your argument is that you are somehow claiming that there is a reason to switch when there isn't one.  Japanese sticks can certainly look nicer, but that's really the only thing they've got going for them.  In every other category they are on equal footing with the tride and true american sticks.

If you want to use japanese controls then by all means do so, but saying that they are "better" in any way is the silliest thing I've ever heard.  They are different... different = different and nothing else.  

Btw BadMouth is correct in his assesment.  A keyboard is a prime example of what we are all talking about.  The majority of the people on this planet perfer straight keys on a keyboard.  Some people fell into that "ergonomic" keyboard craze back in the day and they sware by those saying they are more ergonomic and somehow increase performance.  Studies have shown since their release that this is not the case and infact using ergonomic keyboards are just as likey to cause carpal tunnel as straight keybaords.  Doctors only reccomend you switch if you are having symptoms and that is just so that your hands are moving in a different way, it has nothing to do with the layout.  If you are using a ergonomic keyboard and start having problems they actually reccomend you to switch to a straight one!

In other words ergonomics are a scam in regards to many things, including button layouts.

Yenome:


--- Quote from: Nephasth on March 17, 2012, 02:47:16 pm ---I have a 7 button curved layout (not Japanese style though), I use my thumb for the lower left button (run) in MK3. I use my index finger on that button for Neo Geo games.



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Seeing this picture is what made me think of using the 7th button for run and using the middle buttons for block. someone else had said something bout it in a diff thread as well. tho I love how his buttons color changes based on the game.

Ond:


--- Quote from: eds1275 on March 17, 2012, 09:31:01 pm ---...................my relaxed fingers form a fairly straight line. Resting lightly on the buttons. I must be some sorta freak.

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Nope, you're a guitar player!  You can make them fingers do whatever you want.  ;D

vanrose72:


--- Quote from: Ond on March 18, 2012, 04:22:29 am ---
--- Quote from: eds1275 on March 17, 2012, 09:31:01 pm ---...................my relaxed fingers form a fairly straight line. Resting lightly on the buttons. I must be some sorta freak.

--- End quote ---

Nope, you're a guitar player!  You can make them fingers do whatever you want.  ;D

--- End quote ---

My buttons are in a straight line, too.



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