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Check out this $35 PC!?!?!

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Grasshopper:

--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 24, 2012, 07:22:20 pm ---Sounds like rampant speculation Grasshopper.  I heard the same end of the world speech in regards to Microsoft all the way in 1998.... needless to say you can still install any OS you want on a computer, but why would you want to?  For desktop use windows is the best or at the very least the most widely supported.


--- End quote ---

In your opinion.

If you do a bit of googling you'll find out that my comments on digital signing are a bit more than mere "rampant speculation" (link).

Grasshopper:

--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 24, 2012, 07:22:20 pm ---Ok you've got your 35 dollar ...err scratch that 65 dollar PI
It's going to need:

case  = 5.00
Keyboard = 10.00
Mouse = 8.00
SD card = 20.00
Monitor = 200.00

For a grand total of around 308 bucks... probably more if you factor in shipping costs and the like.

Now you might say "But isn't a traditional pc going to need these things as well?"  Yes, that's certainly true.  The problem is at 300 bucks we are in the ball park of the price of a cheap pc bundle, which would include all of those accessories.  Factor that in with the fact that schools can generally arrange a big discount with pc manufacturers and they can buy a full-fledged pc, which has greater functionality for the same price.  Now it won't be a top of the line pc like we are used to, but it would certainly be better than the Pi's specs. 

Now for rich shcools, that have the extra resources I can see this thing being used, but it's intended purpose of putting pcs in the hands of impoverished children isn't going to happen.  They aren't going to be able to justify what they get for the money.

As SL said, the OLPC is a MUCH BETTER solution to that.  The reason it's obvious... it's a full-fledged pc with all the needed accessories. Unfortunately even it's price is around 220 bucks, which is too expensive for what you get.

--- End quote ---

Except that most of the people who buy a Raspberry Pi will already own a keyboard, mouse, and monitor (or TV).

Howard, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but from your comments I get the impression you've done very little research into what the Raspberry Pi is all about. It's not intended to perform the same function as the OLPC. Not even close. You're comparing apples and oranges. The OLPC was designed to be a general purpose computer that could be used by kids in the third world who couldn't afford to buy a conventional laptop or desktop PC.

By way of contrast, the Raspberry Pi has been designed primarily as a teaching aid to help kids in the UK to learn how to program. It's a very UK-centric project, and it's definitely not intended to replace a conventional desktop PC or laptop. Schools in the UK already have plenty of those, and most kids in the UK already own at least one computer of their own. The trouble is that it's no longer fashionable to teach kids how to program or understand how computers work on anything other than a superficial level. In IT classes kids are mostly just taught how to use Word, Excel, and a Web Browser. They're certainly useful skills but I'm sure you'd agree that there's far more to computing than that.

The Raspberry Pi is an attempt to introduce today's kids to the type of relatively low level, close to the hardware, programming that was an absolute necessity 30 years ago, but which is now becoming something of a dying art.  Now I realise that you can learn to code on any computer and in any language. But if you're using a modern language and OS, then you're sitting on top of multiple layers of hugely complex libraries, drivers etc. and it's just not the same. You're not going to get the same sense of pride and ownership that you get when you coax a relatively simple computer into life by writing code very close to its hardware.

Who knows. Maybe it won't succeed. Maybe kids today just won't get it, as you clearly don't. Maybe they'll just shrug their shoulders and continue tweeting inane nonsense into their iPhones. But I'm cautiously optimistic that it will inspire at least some of them to explore the rich world of computing that exists beyond the Microsoft and Apple hegemony.

ark_ader:

--- Quote ---It's a very UK-centric project, and it's definitely not intended to replace a conventional desktop PC or laptop. Schools in the UK already have plenty of those, and most kids in the UK already own at least one computer of their own.
--- End quote ---

Actually Howard, Grasshopper is right on the money with that one.  Raspi is designed for the UK economy, especially when the model A starts shipping.  The majority of the schools here in the UK have refurbished or recycle computers (heck my college has 10 year old PCs and we are going to pay them £9K a year?) and IT is not really taught in the UK schools.  It is more Microsoft Office based and it is hurting the economy as we have a shortage of skilled workers.  The migrant workers schooled in the EU are in short supply.

This device and its sister will revolutionize the academic institutions, and allow children of all ages and backgrounds the ability to learn programming.  I would have preferred that Microsoft just donated Xbox 360s to the schools for the XNA development (this is currently available and successful) as the kids would be more enthused to code for their favorite console (yea), as the PS3 turned off Linux capability (boo).

Besides the UK economy is doing pretty good right now, and there is cash available for this $25 solution, my college is keen on getting these Pi's out to the students.  The $50 Indian Tablet, even though has an upgraded core pales in comparison.   The UK was the leader of software development, and we have more consoles, and buy more games so it seems like an excellent idea to regain the title .  ;D

Howard_Casto:
I know it's intended implementation but I guess I didn't word that too well. Sorry about that.  It's meant to be a cheap development platform for financially challenged schools yes?.... my statement still stands.
*edit*
Maybe even that is worded too badly..... a "financially challenged" school translates to virtually any school at has budget concerns... aka virtually all of them.  ;)

You are thinking like you are at home.  Yeah we can chuck out a spare monitor kbd and mouse and we probably have a spare monitor lying around, but you just can't do that in a computer lab.  You aren't going to have these things just lying around because you are in a school.... they are going to be used.  If you are suggesting that all 30+ students reach around to the back of a pc, unhook their equiptment to use with the pi and then hook it back up properly when done... well good luck with that.  ;)  And by requiring all of those add-ons for it to work you've essentially tethered it to the school when I thought the whole point was that kids could take it home and work on their programming assignments as well.  That's why I meantioned the OLPC... at least it's a complete package.

When a school decides to setup a lab unless it's a very well off school, money is the bottom line, my point is for what you are paying for a typical pi workstation you could setup a pc workstation, which is far more flexible and give you can still do low-level programming on a pc.  I do get the intent, but I don't think the problem in regards to lack of low-level programming is a hardware one, it's a teaching one.  The classes simply need to be offered.

Here's the delimma.  Let's say you are a school and you want to teach such a course.  Does it make more sense to hook all that equipment to a cheap, single purpose pcb or to spend roughly the same amount on a cheap pc bundle, which could be used for other computer classes and/or use existing computer labs and just supply the kids with a cheap avr like a teensy or arduino?

Howard_Casto:

--- Quote from: ark_ader on March 25, 2012, 03:32:04 pm ---   The UK was the leader of software development, and we have more consoles, and buy more games so it seems like an excellent idea to regain the title .  ;D

--- End quote ---

Any relevant point you had was negated by that statement.  I don't mean to pick on you but I would like to know what world you live in where you think that the UK buys more games than the US, or Japan, or heck even South America.  You guys are one step away from being Australia in terms of game sales.  I would also like to know how you think that the UK is a leader in software development when Google, IBM, NOA and Microsoft are based in the US and Sony, Nintendo and NEC and basically everybody else are based in Japan.  The only big, influential UK developer I can think of is Rare, and you know how that turned out.  I actually think M$ bought Rare just to keep them from making games for Nintendo... all they seem to work on now are the cruddy xbox live avatars.

The UK has had plenty of great development studios over the years, but they have mostly been small, independant affairs.  I can't think of any time in the history of computing when the UK was considered to be a leader in software development.  At many points they were very competative, but leaders... not particularly.

Now if you had said France.... yeah UbiSoft is a powerhouse to be sure, but even then their largest branch is in Canada... you know, because all the consumers and programmers are in North America.  ;)


Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight.. sorry, but when I see something like that all the other words you've typed fade into the background.

I'm wondering how this topic got so far of the rails actually.  I keep trying to steer the conversation back to what we are going to do with the Pi and every couple of days somebody wanders in.. ignores my posts and the other on-topic ones and starts drawing the conversation back to it's relevancy... of course I'm going to respond if I don't agree with it, but I think the debate is getting rather pointless.  I sorry I voiced my opinion and it differed from the peanut gallery, I didn't expect everybody and their borther to come out of the woodwork and try to make some point against mine.  But then again, this is the internet, I should have known better. ;)  If people want to talk about potential usage for the device I'm here, otherwise I'm done with this thread.

The above paragraph is going to come out sounding angry..... I'm not at all, I wish I could articulate my feelings a little better.  I'm just a little frustrated how any conversation degrades away from relevancy anymore.  And yes I realize that the above statment about uk developers is exactly the sort of thing that I'm complaining about, so maybe it can't be helped.

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