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Green Giant:

--- Quote from: Mikezilla on February 16, 2012, 02:36:18 pm ---
No, thats the thing. He isnt lame, writers make him lame. The idea, and the comics, are awesome. Are you going based solely on the films? Superman is the quintessential hero. If it wasnt for him, there wouldnt be others. He is the first, and among the best. Aside from Batman, and Captain America, name some heroes before him? Hercules? Cmon.

--- End quote ---
Mandrake the Magician would like to have a word with you.

shmokes:
None of that makes sense at all. You're just making blanket statements. As though by simply using the word "can't" you make it so. You "can't" do this. You "should NEVER" do that. You've offered nothing whatsoever to justify these axioms of yours.

Anyway, both Batman Begins and Dark Knight, but especially Dark Knight, had pretty well developed plots. Batman Begins' plot focused on the emotional trauma and training and characters that led to the development of Batman. That's a pretty compelling story there. It's downright laughable that you are criticizing the route Nolan took in favor of what any writer worth his salt knows is an incredibly lazy way out. It would somehow be better for a character to go away for twenty years and then suddenly return with magical, unexplained abilities. Well, that would be very convenient, yes. It also smacks of Michael Bay.

And hell, take off all the makeup and costumes and Dark Knight would have been a crime drama to make Scorsese proud.

Batman Begins and Dark Knight were both excellent films in their own right. I think if you were being honest with yourself you'd realize that your only complaint is that you are a big fan of the source material.

Mikezilla:

--- Quote from: shmokes on February 16, 2012, 03:01:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: Mikezilla on February 16, 2012, 02:36:18 pm ---
No, thats the thing. He isnt lame, writers make him lame.


--- End quote ---

At risk of being that guy who spoils Santa Clause . . . um . . . Superman isn't a real person. He's fiction, i.e., created by writers. He is what he is written to be. I already cataloged what it is about him that makes him such a boring, two-dimensional character. It's not the movies. It's his stable of powers and lack of serious threats to his safety that make him suck. That he was the first, well, he has historical significance. I'll give him that. But if you are that concerned with the first, perhaps you should give up your iPhone and carry one of these instead:

--- End quote ---

You dont need to patronize me, I know that he is fiction. There is one thing to be created by someone, then to have that property mucked up by some writers. This thread devolved into batman and superman, but what we were talking about were some writers rendition of spiderman. Youre not getting what Im saying. Some writers had their take on batman in 1989, and 1997, that horrible abortion of a movie called Batman and Robin is a prime example of writers ---smurfing--- things up. His stable of powers are awesome. You should read Kingdom Come, then we can come back to this thread. Or Red Sun.

The phone analogy is terrible. They tried to update Superman before, and it failed. See the blue electric costume. You dont need to change the character, why do you think he has been around for so long?

And Howard, regarding the Batman movies... I am a fan of the original Tim Burton Batman, thats MY Batman, but to say that the new ones arent good, its kinda ridiculous. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but cmon. Granted there are things about the new one I dont like, the bat emblem on the costume, the bat mobile etc... But the reasoning as to WHY he IS Batman, is amazing. The whole fear aspect from the first one is gold. I would say Batman Begins, along side Unbreakable, is probably the best comic book movie out there.

Howard_Casto:

--- Quote from: shmokes on February 16, 2012, 05:51:10 pm ---And hell, take off all the makeup and costumes and Dark Knight would have been a crime drama to make Scorsese proud.

Batman Begins and Dark Knight were both excellent films in their own right. I think if you were being honest with yourself you'd realize that your only complaint is that you are a big fan of the source material.

--- End quote ---

And that right there is the problem.  You just admitted with those very words that they are NOT Batman films.  I'm a huge opponent of using a franchise as cheap publicity to promote a miedocre film.  And that is what is going on right here.  There isn't any "treatment" to a property... it is either faithful to the source material or it isn't.  If it isn't then the only reason to use the franchises name is to boost the sales of a story that doesn't have a leg to stand on by itself. 

There's no such thing as a good crime drama btw.... those are for screwed up little boys that somehow found something likeable in villianous monsters like gangsters.  ;)

Le Chuck:

--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on February 16, 2012, 08:06:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: shmokes on February 16, 2012, 05:51:10 pm ---And hell, take off all the makeup and costumes and Dark Knight would have been a crime drama to make Scorsese proud.

Batman Begins and Dark Knight were both excellent films in their own right. I think if you were being honest with yourself you'd realize that your only complaint is that you are a big fan of the source material.

--- End quote ---

And that right there is the problem.  You just admitted with those very words that they are NOT Batman films.  I'm a huge opponent of using a franchise as cheap publicity to promote a miedocre film.  And that is what is going on right here.  There isn't any "treatment" to a property... it is either faithful to the source material or it isn't.  If it isn't then the only reason to use the franchises name is to boost the sales of a story that doesn't have a leg to stand on by itself. 

There's no such thing as a good crime drama btw.... those are for screwed up little boys that somehow found something likeable in villianous monsters like gangsters.  ;)

--- End quote ---

Oh come off it Howard, the exact same thing can be said of the Batman comics, and often has been in form of high praise.  At it's root Batman has always been a crime novel rather than a super hero novel.  We got it that you don't like the films but you don't have to try and gainsay every legitimate opinion and try to pigeon hole us into your twisted world view man.

And I'm going to assume your last line was self depricating humor because if it wasn't you are totaly delusional. 

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