New Spidey Trailer

[shmokes]

For me it's just incredibly stupid to reboot it at this point. \

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

lots of it. simple as that.

It's not as simple as that. Dark Knight did better in the box office than Batman Begins. Spider-man 2 did better than Spider-man 1. Origin stories don't make more money by default. All they had to do is make Spider-man 4 and make it well. Remaking a super good, not even old film is a recipe for making less money, not more. Cos a bunch of people are going to be like, "Oh, they're doing a remake of a movie I just saw a few years ago, only this time it looks like it was cast by the WB. I think I'll pass."

[Bootay]

@Vigo: I like how all the villains were portrayed in the old Adam West series. They were straight out the pages of the books, at least for the tiime. (I have all the old books collected in hardcover).

[Vigo]

I agree. As a kid, I didn't have much of a comic budget. I grabbed about any second hand comic I could get a hold of, which were often from that era. About the biggest difference I could spot in the series was that Batman wasn't packing hostess fruit pies in his utility belt. 

[Dartful Dodger]

The new Spiderman movie looks dark. I'm going to like it.

[hypernova]

I'm wondering how much time will be spent on the history.  Obviously they didn't delve at all into Peter's parents in the last trilogy, other than they were dead.

I hope they don't do another Octopus.  They simply can't.  Not for awhile.  Alfred Molina played that villain to...I'll say it...perfection, IMO.

Trailer looks decent.  Not digging the Peter casting.  I thought the same...it does look like they're catering to the post-Twilight movie girl crowd and hoping males won't realize it.

[nitz]

He got the top three things right:

1.  Gotham City is the star of any Batman film... period... everything else is icing on the cake.

2.  Batman is boring (in the short term at least) and a downer as a whole, so focus on the villians

3.  Realism is IMPOSSIBLE when your arch emenies run around in halloween costumes doing stupid "themed" attacks... so just go with it. 

The funny thing is, I actually agree with you on all these points. And don't get me wrong, I don't hate the movie, I got it on VHS the year it came out and still have it, and watch it maybe every few years or so. But there's something about it that rubs me the wrong way a little, and I find it hard to put into words. The best I can come up with is that it feels like maybe it was trying too hard to not be like the '60s Batman TV series, and maybe they went a tad too heavy on the "darkness" factor. This may very well be true to the comics of the time, but I didn't read them. See, and I actually think the tone of the Nolan Batman movies is perfect, but someone said that it's not like the comics. And I still don't read them. So my view on these things is a bit different perhaps because I'm not comparing it to anything.

[Vigo]

I do know that Adam West hated Tim Burtin's Batman, said it lost the fun....but a big part of it seemed to be that he felt a little jaded that we wasn't invited to be a part of the film.

[Le Chuck]

With Batman it came down to actor choice for me.  Clooney and Kilmer couldn't do brooding the way that Keaton could (or at all).  Keaton brooded better than anybody, and that's the Batman, he is analytical to a fault; however, Keaton couldn't sell it physically without the mask.  That's where Patrick Bateman makes his money, brooding and in some ways as crazed as his nemisi in the films yet he's able to carry the role physically.  And just to go against the grain, huge fan of the new batmobile - finally a realistic ride for the dark knight.  That suped up slick sex cariage looked great but really, the HMMWV is a character unto itself and until Nolan's take it never matched the utilatarian aspect of the modern batman.

As for the new spidey I completely echo the complaint about a redux, but complaining about that is beating a dead horse.  Once we get a look at what they've done we may all change camps.  New franchise at least gives them th opportunity to reinvent the symbiote in all it's needed glory.   

[Gray_Area]

All comics have gone through different themes and styles. Like religion, they had to change or die out.

There is no comparison between Nicholson and Ledger. They both were exactly what was needed.

[shmokes]

That's where Patrick Bateman makes his money, brooding and in some ways as crazed as his nemisi in the films yet he's able to carry the role physically.

I think Christian Bale sucks bad at batman. He plays the role so two dimensionally, and the voice thing he does for his crime fighting alter-ego is downright laughable. It's the exact same voice I use with my five-year-old daughter when I'm pretending to be a monster. It's just so amateur, IMO. I actually think Christian Bale is a reasonably talented actor, but I think he's badly miscast in Batman. In fact, more like he just does a poor job. Physically he's a fine choice for Batman. His acting is just a problem.

It's an amazing testament to the writing and direction, I think, that the movies have been so good in spite of the crap performance by the lead actor.

[Le Chuck]

That's where Patrick Bateman makes his money, brooding and in some ways as crazed as his nemisi in the films yet he's able to carry the role physically.

I think Christian Bale sucks bad at batman. He plays the role so two dimensionally, and the voice thing he does for his crime fighting alter-ego is downright laughable. It's the exact same voice I use with my five-year-old daughter when I'm pretending to be a monster. It's just so amateur, IMO. I actually think Christian Bale is a reasonably talented actor, but I think he's badly miscast in Batman. In fact, more like he just does a poor job. Physically he's a fine choice for Batman. His acting is just a problem.

It's an amazing testament to the writing and direction, I think, that the movies have been so good in spite of the crap performance by the lead actor.

So it's amazing directing but Bale ruins the character's voice all on his own?  That doesn't make sense.  Yeah the voice is lame but there is a whole set of people who are there to help actors see themselves and collectively dropped the ball, and the fault for that lies not with Bale but with Nolan.  An amazing director would have said, "Ya know Chris, you're coming across pretty retarded, wanna try that again?" or some such other director talk meant to inspire or some ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. 

[shmokes]

Yeah, I can see that. You're right. I guess it's just an otherwise extremely well directed film. It definitely helps that so many of the supporting actors, Michael Cain, Morgan Freeman, all of the villains, have been cast so well.

[ark_ader]

Yeah, I can see that. You're right. I guess it's just an otherwise extremely well directed film. It definitely helps that so many of the supporting actors, Michael Cain, Morgan Freeman, all of the villains, have been cast so well.

I thought batman was supposed to be a psychopath, hellbent on revenge for this slain family.

[Well Fed Games]

the voice thing he does for his crime fighting alter-ego is downright laughable.

[Mikezilla]

The new Spiderman movie looks dark. I'm going to like it.

Spiderman isnt supposed to be dark, thats the problem. This movie is so formulaic it drives me insane. "Hey, Twilight made a ton of money, lets make the lead guy look like that. Hey, The Dark Knight made a ton of money, lets make it dark like that".

They are even making the new Superman movie "dark". Its retarded.

I'm wondering how much time will be spent on the history.  Obviously they didn't delve at all into Peter's parents in the last trilogy, other than they were dead.

I hope they don't do another Octopus.  They simply can't.  Not for awhile.  Alfred Molina played that villain to...I'll say it...perfection, IMO.

Trailer looks decent.  Not digging the Peter casting.  I thought the same...it does look like they're catering to the post-Twilight movie girl crowd and hoping males won't realize it.

The only reason to mention Peter Parkers parents (hopefully) is to do the storyline in the comics where his parents came back, but they were robots programmed by the chameleon. It was one of the things that drove him over the edge, right before the clone came back and ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- everything up. Other than that, they are pointless. The tagline gets me every time. "The untold story. That was told in 2002". Yawn.

[yotsuya]

Spiderman isnt supposed to be dark, thats the problem. This movie is so formulaic it drives me insane. "Hey, Twilight made a ton of money, lets make the lead guy look like that. Hey, The Dark Knight made a ton of money, lets make it dark like that".

They are even making the new Superman movie "dark". Its retarded.

 

Pretend the above is a slow clap that builds to a loud roar.

[Gray_Area]

Spiderman isnt supposed to be dark, thats the problem. This movie is so formulaic it drives me insane. "Hey, Twilight made a ton of money, lets make the lead guy look like that. Hey, The Dark Knight made a ton of money, lets make it dark like that".

They are even making the new Superman movie "dark". Its retarded.

 

Pretend the above is a slow clap that builds to a loud roar.

Don't fault the makers. Fault the kids today.

Yeah, I can see that. You're right. I guess it's just an otherwise extremely well directed film. It definitely helps that so many of the supporting actors, Michael Cain, Morgan Freeman, all of the villains, have been cast so well.

How old are you two?  The voice isn't supposed to be scary. It's supposed to mask his own. Duhhh. Now, they could've made it smoother in the treble....

And Bale is an awesome actor. The Prestige, anyone?  3:10 to Yuma??  He's also a really cool seeming guy. (I watch the bonus materials.)

[Le Chuck]

How old are you two?  The voice isn't supposed to be scary. It's supposed to mask his own. Duhhh. Now, they could've made it smoother in the treble....

And Bale is an awesome actor. The Prestige, anyone?  3:10 to Yuma??  He's also a really cool seeming guy. (I watch the bonus materials.)

Short comment but a lot to go on there:
I haven't hung out with Christian Bale but am old enough to know that I would not use bonus materials as a judge of character.  I bet that if Al Quaida released a bunch of outtakes and publicity shots it would make bin Laden seem like a real pip, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he's not wasn't <yay CJSOTF>

Not sure if I'm too young or too old based on that comment.  My age is in my profile unlike most others so feel free to form opinions on that but I must advise that doing so will likely garner similar results as using bonus material.

Why would you defend the voice and then immediately criticize it?  It's like you're saying "you guys are wrong but I agree with you"

I did indeed like those two movies and American Psycho is one of my favorite films.  I generally enjoy his performance in everything, including the Nolan's Batman films but have the commonly shared opinion that he missed the mark on the voice.  I also think that shmokes' analogy was spot on.  I use that same voice to "intimidate" my 4 year old.  He loves it.   

[shmokes]

The Prestige was lame. As was Terminator Salvation and plenty of other Bale films (3:10 to Yuma was very good, though). By the way, if you think Bale is a super cool guy in real life you should check out the candid audio clip of him going ape ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on one of the workers who walked into his line of sight during the filming of a scene (wrecking Bales concentration). He doesn't seem that cool to me. But I couldn't care less if he's cool in real life. If I had standards like that I'd find myself sitting through Ben Affleck movies.

Whether Batman's voice was meant to strike fear in the hearts of men or not (hint: it was), it sounded lame either way.

I'm 33.

[Mikezilla]

Spiderman isnt supposed to be dark, thats the problem. This movie is so formulaic it drives me insane. "Hey, Twilight made a ton of money, lets make the lead guy look like that. Hey, The Dark Knight made a ton of money, lets make it dark like that".

They are even making the new Superman movie "dark". Its retarded.

 

Pretend the above is a slow clap that builds to a loud roar.

  

Bale is a decent actor, but his lisp kind of bugs me. I dont know if its a lisp exactly, or if he just has trouble doing an american accent.

His voice in Dark Knight was ridiculous. I hated it. It was perfect in Batman Begins. It was a little gruff, but he could actually speak. In Dark Knight, he was growling so hard, he had to take breaths after every other word. 

Im 29.

[Green Giant]

The Prestige was lame. As was Terminator Salvation and plenty of other Bale films (3:10 to Yuma was very good, though). By the way, if you think Bale is a super cool guy in real life you should check out the candid audio clip of him going ape ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on one of the workers who walked into his line of sight during the filming of a scene (wrecking Bales concentration). He doesn't seem that cool to me. But I couldn't care less if he's cool in real life. If I had standards like that I'd find myself sitting through Ben Affleck movies.

Whether Batman's voice was meant to strike fear in the hearts of men or not (hint: it was), it sounded lame either way.

I'm 33.

I am a fan of Bale, and I don't knock him for his blow ups on set.  He is a character actor.

If you want Christian Bale to play Batman, well don't steal on the set because he WILL run you down, break your arm, and then flee into the shadows. 

If you want a happy go lucky actor on the set get Tom Cruise, but then you will just have Tom Cruise as a secret agent, Tom Cruise is a future cop, Tom Cruise is a race car driver, Tom Cruise fly's planes.....sort of, Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise.

I love character acting far more than being yourself cause you can really connect with the character.  Sometimes the other end is good, but you have to like the guy.  Hence why mission impossible flopped so bad after Cruise went crazy.

Anyways, it's not like Bale went Russel Crowe crazy.


And 28.

[HaRuMaN]

Watch Bale in the Machinist.  Good movie...

[shmokes]

I'm not against Bale. He's done some good stuff. Frankly, Tom Cruise is pretty good too, and god knows I wouldn't have much interest in a personal relationship with that nutjob. Tom Cruise has done some out-of-the-box stuff. He was great in Collateral. Magnolia too (though I didn't really like the film). And his role in Tropic Thunder, Jesus Christ, I didn't even know it was him for most of the movie. The movie was nearly unwatchable, but there were a couple of amazing performances in it. And at least when he is just phoning in a performance as Tom Cruise, he's not bad. He has good timing, charisma, presence. He's not bad at all. He's just a scientologist which makes you want to dislike him. And he did have quite a string of the same formulaic movie over and over again, just in a different setting each time.

[SNAAKE]

Watch Bale in the Machinist.  Good movie...

for a while I thought some else played that thin guy role

like damn..how do you make dramatic changes like that..

[HaRuMaN]

From IMDB:

The producers of the film claim that Christian Bale dropped from about 173 pounds in weight down to about 110 pounds in weight to make this film. They also claim that Bale actually wanted to drop down to 100 pounds, but that they would not let him go below 120 out of fear that his health could be in too much danger if he did. His diet consisted of one can of tuna and an apple per day. His 63-pound weight loss is said to be a record for any actor for a movie role. He regained the weight in time for his role in Batman Begins.

[Green Giant]

Watch Bale in the Machinist.  Good movie...

for a while I thought some else played that thin guy role

like damn..how do you make dramatic changes like that..

To be honest I think I was more impressed with the fact he then spent 6 months going from that skeleton body to the 230 pound Batman body.  A 100 lb weight gain is one thing, but when half of that gain is pure ripped muscles.....impressive.

[Green Giant]

I'm not against Bale. He's done some good stuff. Frankly, Tom Cruise is pretty good too, and god knows I wouldn't have much interest in a personal relationship with that nutjob. Tom Cruise has done some out-of-the-box stuff. He was great in Collateral. Magnolia too (though I didn't really like the film). And his role in Tropic Thunder, Jesus Christ, I didn't even know it was him for most of the movie. The movie was nearly unwatchable, but there were a couple of amazing performances in it. And at least when he is just phoning in a performance as Tom Cruise, he's not bad. He has good timing, charisma, presence. He's not bad at all. He's just a scientologist which makes you want to dislike him. And he did have quite a string of the same formulaic movie over and over again, just in a different setting each time.

I am not saying I don't like Tom Cruise movies, but even in Collateral I never thought of him as a ruthless killer, just mean Tom Cruise.  

I can only thing of Tropic Thunder and Interview with a Vampire where Cruise really took on his characters.




I like be-yourself actors after all, but that usually is cause I like the actor.  I have always loved Clint Eastwood movies.  I just have more respect for the crazy character actors like Bale.

[Howard_Casto]

Here I'll sum it up:

Bale isn't a bad actor and shouldn't be blamed for the lame-ness that has been the last two Batman films.  The casting director that ever thought he would make a good Batman should.

For that matter a list of people that should be fired for their participation in the batman disasters:

The location manager....  it's Gotham City, not downtown LA!

The vehicle designer.....  The batmobile shouldn't look like a reject from a G.I. Joe playset.... motorcyles should be narrow enough that you can actually straddle them.

The writers....  Yeah let's make Ra's train Batman and take away all of his mystique and supernatural abilites...  while we're at it, let's do that whole "squeeze too many villians" bit like they did in the later batman films... that turned out real well.  Oh and don't forget we've got to make the Joker into a crime lord, because he just isn't dark enough already.   

The makeup effects guys....  Hmm lets see... scarecrow didn't look scary, the joker looked like a trauma patient, two-face was a over-cgied mess ect...



Basically both films lacked any redeeming value what-so-ever except for the fact that they were better than Batman and Robin... which is like saying you like getting raped in the face because it doesn't hurt as much as getting raped in the butt.  The astounding thing is that many people LIKED those films and much worse, think they are better than the original batman films, which let's face it, are masterpieces.  They have better production values certainly, but that's all they have. 

As for this whole "dark" trend:

Spiderman is a special case.  Rami and the principal actors said they wouldn't do a 4th spiderman due to the fact that the third one wasn't all the great and it had wrapped up the story rather nicely.  In other words they had artistic integrity.  The studios essentially said "screw you guys, we're making more films anyway"  and HAD to reboot the franchise because all the villains were dead.  Spiderman has had some "dark" times over the years, but we aren't talking about a "dark" treatment anyway, rather a (ugh...) "sexy" one.  Spiderman has been dark, but he's never been sexy.... he's a quirky, nerdy type of guy.  That's why we love him!  He should never be portrayed as "slick" or alluring in any way. 

As for superman... I just don't know what you can do with superman.  Christopher Reed IS Clark Kent and now that he is gone, you just can't do anyomore superman films until you find a suitable replacement.  The last guy really looked the part, but there was something missing.  He was also stuck in a terrible movie.  They basically ripped off the original superman film almost shot by shot and then the few things that the DID change, were just awful.  Supes can't hve a baby... that's like Jesus having a baby... the faithful just won't stand for it  and holdng a mountain of Kryptonite would surely kill him. 

They are trying to make supes more relevant in our jaded society by making him darker but that never works.  I think they just need to shelf him for now.  When someone comes up with a truely masterful story they should bring him out, but not until.

[shmokes]

Tim Burton's second Batman film wasn't very good, Howard. It was a damned sight better than what followed, but only the first one was an actually great film. And both of Nolan's films were excellent. I'm judging them solely on their merits as films. I've never read the comics so I can't comment on faithfulness to the source. But judging them exclusively on their merits as films has its advantages. Sometimes, and this is probably especially true when it comes to comics, sometimes the source material is stupid.

[Le Chuck]

As for superman... I just don't know what you can do with superman.  Christopher Reed IS Clark Kent and now that he is gone, you just can't do anyomore superman films until you find a suitable replacement.  The last guy really looked the part, but there was something missing.  He was also stuck in a terrible movie.  They basically ripped off the original superman film almost shot by shot and then the few things that the DID change, were just awful.  Supes can't hve a baby... that's like Jesus having a baby... the faithful just won't stand for it  and holdng a mountain of Kryptonite would surely kill him.  

They are trying to make supes more relevant in our jaded society by making him darker but that never works.  I think they just need to shelf him for now.  When someone comes up with a truely masterful story they should bring him out, but not until.

Check out Smallville.  Tom Welling looks the part and that series did a lot of off canon stuff but really captured the feeling and direction of the Superman comics.  The series blended a lot of the different story lines and universes fairly seamlessly and I would stand in line to see a movie with Tom Welling as the Big Blue Boyscout.  I know people poo-poo the WB (and for good reason) but they really got me hooked with Smallville.  Oh, and best Superman costume since Reeve slipped it on.

A disagree with your opinion on Nolan's Batman but I can see how some of the diehard community would feel that way.  I enjoy the current treatment very much and can't wait to check out the coming film.  

<Edit:  I did a quick search for "does Howard like Smallville?" and came up with this so disregard please as I think I have the jist of your stance.  I personally think one can be a Supe fanboy and a Smallville fanboy and happily walk the line between the two.  Just like Johnny Cash.>  

[Bootay]

I liked the Nolan Batman films. I think the first Burton film was more true to the comic, but the Nolan films were still good. I hated the Batmobile in the Nolan films, but other than that, they were good. As a comic fan it's hard to not compare the movies to the comics, but I do try and think of the movies as an alternate universe because I know there will be differences..some for the worst and some for the best. I don't know....

Plus there are some things that just don't translate well from comic to film. As a comic fan it is hard for me not to get irritated when they make things wildly different though.

But I personally think that MOST comic films have been true enough to get the main idea across and be at least half way enjoyable. (MOST=any comic movie to come out after the first X-Men, because let's face it, Aside from the first Burton Batman film...no one even tried to make good films out of comic characters.)

[dre-w]

I remember reading online somewhere when the reboot was first announced that the reason for it was something about a script was thrown out, another one made, toby didn't like it/didn't want to do it, and sony had a certain amount of time to do something with spiderman or else they'd lose the rights.. So they went with a reboot

[Green Giant]

I am thankful I don't real alot of comics or books.  It really lets me enjoy movies as movies without getting cynical when something isn't how you feel it should be.

Personally I love the first 2 80s-90s Batman movies, and I also love the new Batman movies.  Maybe my age allowed me to really love both of them.  I was 5 when I saw the first Batman, and I think the more theatrical feel appealed more to me back then.


The only comic I have read in the last decade would have to be The Dark Knight Returns which my buddy told me I had to read last year.  I don't know about you guys but I would love to see that story brought to the big screen.

[Mikezilla]

I remember reading online somewhere when the reboot was first announced that the reason for it was something about a script was thrown out, another one made, toby didn't like it/didn't want to do it, and sony had a certain amount of time to do something with spiderman or else they'd lose the rights.. So they went with a reboot

Yeah thats partially because of it, and also the choice of villains Raimi wanted to do, the studio (mainly Avi Arad) thought the villains were stupid. I personally dont like the idea of a reboot, for a ton of reasons, but the main one is that its a WASTE OF TIME. Fine, dont do the movies with Raimi and Tobey, like shmokes said, its not about the actor playing Spiderman, its about Peter Parker. Who cares if another actor plays him. Everyone knows how spiderman got his powers, and besides, this whole generation saw the Raimi movies. They arent going to change THAT much stuff, except for the web shooters. I would have rather made them stick with the organic ones and not waste time telling another origin story, then change em and do that all over again. Its retarded. 

As for superman... I just don't know what you can do with superman.  Christopher Reed IS Clark Kent and now that he is gone, you just can't do anyomore superman films until you find a suitable replacement.  The last guy really looked the part, but there was something missing.  He was also stuck in a terrible movie.  They basically ripped off the original superman film almost shot by shot and then the few things that the DID change, were just awful.  Supes can't hve a baby... that's like Jesus having a baby... the faithful just won't stand for it  and holdng a mountain of Kryptonite would surely kill him.

Superman is a great character, thats the thing, what CANT you do with superman? Hollywood is just too afraid to make a movie where the villains are either unknown, or too grandiose, especially after the Green Lantern debacle. Now they think they cant do anything cosmic, because Green Lantern failed. Cmon, Superman vs Braniac, or Doomsday? Someone that can go toe to toe with Supes? Tell me you wouldnt see a death of superman movie. Superman can do amazing things, we just havent seen someone write a story that showcases his abilities. I personally liked the Bryan Singer Superman, but there were too many undertones that dont jive with the character. He was trying to make Superman feel like an outcast, because the director is gay. I get it, but do that with another character, dont do that with superman. And the costume was retarded. The S was too small, and his boots were a joke. The red color was all wrong, and his cape shouldnt be leather. His cape should be a bright vibrant red, and wave like a flag. Leave the leather to Batman.

[Vigo]

 

Superman is the one superhero all of America, and pretty much most of the rest of the world has been familiar with for decades. My Grandpa read superman. Don't change the Sup'.

 

[shmokes]

He's sort of lame, though. That's a problem you have to get around.

[Mikezilla]

Superman is the one superhero all of America, and pretty much most of the rest of the world has been familiar with for decades. My Grandpa read superman. Don't change the Sup'.

 

 

He's sort of lame, though. That's a problem you have to get around.

No, thats the thing. He isnt lame, writers make him lame. The idea, and the comics, are awesome. Are you going based solely on the films? Superman is the quintessential hero. If it wasnt for him, there wouldnt be others. He is the first, and among the best. Aside from Batman, and Captain America, name some heroes before him? Hercules? Cmon. Yes, I agree, he wasnt been up to snuff with the other heroes based on film, but thats an unfair assumption. Aside from the remake, Superman movies were part of the time they were created. Im not excited about this new one either, because they are just rehashing what was the most successful Superman movie, the second one. It goes back to the formulaic stance Hollywood has on making movies. I would make a Superman movie for the ages, thats what George Lucas should do with all his money. Dont make a hokey movie about black figher pilots, give me 100 million bucks to make a Superman movie. It would be glorious! 

[shmokes]

No, thats the thing. He isnt lame, writers make him lame.

At risk of being that guy who spoils Santa Clause . . . um . . . Superman isn't a real person. He's fiction, i.e., created by writers. He is what he is written to be. I already cataloged what it is about him that makes him such a boring, two-dimensional character. It's not the movies. It's his stable of powers and lack of serious threats to his safety that make him suck. That he was the first, well, he has historical significance. I'll give him that. But if you are that concerned with the first, perhaps you should give up your iPhone and carry one of these instead:

[Le Chuck]

No, thats the thing. He isnt lame, writers make him lame.

At risk of being that guy who spoils Santa Clause . . . um . . . Superman isn't a real person. He's fiction, i.e., created by writers. He is what he is written to be. I already cataloged what it is about him that makes him such a boring, two-dimensional character. It's not the movies. It's his stable of powers and lack of serious threats to his safety that make him suck. That he was the first, well, he has historical significance. I'll give him that. But if you are that concerned with the first, perhaps you should give up your iPhone and carry one of these instead:

When I read comics I imagine myself to be the protagonist and there is only one superhero that I (from the time I was a lil' crumb-snatcher to this very moment) have dreamed of being... and it isn't one of the wonder twins.  Sup' has had some great story lines and some duds.  I don't have to think that Supe is in mortal danger to enjoy the narrative but because I am mortal I find myself transferring this trait to him because I can't relate emotionally to a god... even if I want to be one secretly.  Now if you'll excuse me I have to go iron my tights.   

[Howard_Casto]

Tim Burton's second Batman film wasn't very good, Howard. It was a damned sight better than what followed, but only the first one was an actually great film. And both of Nolan's films were excellent. I'm judging them solely on their merits as films. I've never read the comics so I can't comment on faithfulness to the source. But judging them exclusively on their merits as films has its advantages. Sometimes, and this is probably especially true when it comes to comics, sometimes the source material is stupid.

Burton's second film was BETTER than the first.  Mind you they took some extreme liberties with the penguin, one's that I really don't agree with, BUT there was a genuine story to tell... it isn't like these modern super hero movies where the "story" is that there is this guy that turns into a villian and the good guy beats the crap out of him... the end.  The sub-plot with catwoman and cobblepott's dead parents ploy were very well written and you simply don't see that in the modern batman films. 

They even went so far as to explain, in detail, how batman got his training in BB.  The disaster that was Ra  aside, you should NEVER explain Batman's training... you can delve into bits of it, but the fact that he "went away" for 20 years and comes back as some sort of demi-god is part of his mystique.  It's kind of like wolverine.... you can tell a story about how wolverine fought alonside the cap in WWII, but you can't explain his origins... that makes him lame.