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I think I hate leaf switch sticks.....
ChrisK:
Xiaou, I think the crux of your point is simply that you like older arcade games, or at least the play style of them. That's cool, so do I. I've spent untold hours on old one-and-done arcade games and enjoy them a lot. There are even plenty of console games in that same vein, like Super Mario Brothers on the NES.
But I also like the new stuff. Race Drivin was really cool, but I think if you ask the majority of the population you'd find more people liked Doom more. We can debate which game has better mechanics, controls, graphics, or anything else, but in the end the only thing that people care about is if it's fun for them. And sadly not everyone enjoys driving games.
I REALLY like simulation racing. I'm a car guy, and I've done some racing in real life. Racing sim games (ie: Forza on the 360, iRacing on the PC) let me get my racing thrills for a lower budget ($250 racing wheel and the cost of a game) than a set of race tires. To your preference, any of the racing sims of today are inferior games. But I'll tell you I've spent literally thousands of hours driving racing sims and tuning car suspensions, and I've had a ton of fun doing so. I'll also add, parenthetically, that Race Drivin has a very unrealistic driving model, as you might expect from a game of its era, and while a lot of sim racers I know would discount as a waste of time for that, I found it a lot of fun.
If your really want to slit your wrists, go to a modern casino and look at all the people shoveling money into modern video slots. These are video games distilled, and it's obvious people really enjoy them. I can't help but look at them and think "give me 10 coins per level in Rampage and you've got a deal!"
I guess my point is, everybody like different games. We all might like one genre or era more than another, but they're all equally good, because "good" is purely subjective, and you can't tell anyone what they like most, you can only tell us what you like most.
(FWIW, my current playlist is Super Crate Box on my iCade, Metroid Fusion on my GBA emulator, Skyrim on the PC, Forza 4 on the 360, and NARC on MAME. Man, I hate that last boss in NARC.)
Xiaou2:
Larry speaking about the added control of Robotrons dual sticks, and how that was INTENDED by Eugene, so that difficulty could be ramped up much higher.
Larry on why Difficulty is needed, and the advanced system of gameplay that added to cater towards the higher level players, to keep them coming back for more.
(The creator, who according to Donk, just cut and pasted code down, like a cog, with no passion... talking about the intricacies of advanced gameplay mechanics...)
Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---Xiaou, I think the crux of your point is simply that you like older arcade games, or at least the play style of them. That's cool, so do I. I've spent untold hours on old one-and-done arcade games and enjoy them a lot. There are even plenty of console games in that same vein, like Super Mario Brothers on the NES.
--- End quote ---
I like Good games. Of all kinds.. of any time period. Your whole post is Lost, because you are focusing on the wrong person. Re-read Donks various posts about older games, development, and controllers... and my counters will make sense to you.
Im not in the least bit stubborn or stuck in any time warp. Yes, I AM highly critical... A lot of that comes from mere experience. When you have seen a million movies, you tend to judge them by comparison. Its the same for games.
--- Quote ---But I also like the new stuff. Race Drivin was really cool, but I think if you ask the majority of the population you'd find more people liked Doom more. We can debate which game has better mechanics, controls, graphics, or anything else, but in the end the only thing that people care about is if it's fun for them. And sadly not everyone enjoys driving games.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, but Id love to prove this to you all day long. Go out and get an ancient PC with doom running on it... then grab a sit-down Race Drivin machine. Tell people you are raffling off the chance to win one of the machines. But that they have to check off which prize they would prefer to win on the entry. Id be shocked if ANY of them checked the old pc.
And in an arcade setting, Id also wager the Race Drivin will out-earn an PC running Doom. Doom is the type of thing people lazily do at home. Its nothing special. There was even an FPS Arcade game in the doom style made.. and I never once had seen anyone play it the entire time I was on location. Outrun got more play than that pile FPS.
--- Quote ---I REALLY like simulation racing.
--- End quote ---
Thats nice. I dont really care about real Sims. I do care about fun games. In fact, the old sitdown Out Run is far more fun and challenging, than many modern and or 'realistic' racing games.
--- Quote ---I'll also add, parenthetically, that Race Drivin has a very unrealistic driving model, as you might expect from a game of its era, and while a lot of sim racers I know would discount as a waste of time for that, I found it a lot of fun.
--- End quote ---
Hard to believe that, considering that the math calculations were created from an Engineer who specialized in advanced physics, and racing.
From Wiki:
"Physics
The engine, transmission control, suspension, and tire physics were modeled in conjunction with Doug Milliken[4] who was listed as a test driver in the game credits. In the 1950s his father William Milliken of Milliken Research led a team at Cornell Aeronautical Laboratory in Buffalo NY USA (later Calspan) that converted aircraft equations of motion to equations of motion for the automobile, and became one of the world's leading experts in car modeling.[5]"
--- Quote ---If your really want to slit your wrists, go to a modern casino and look at all the people shoveling money into modern video slots. These are video games distilled, and it's obvious people really enjoy them. I can't help but look at them and think "give me 10 coins per level in Rampage and you've got a deal!"
--- End quote ---
This has Zero to do with anything. Gambling's goal is nothing to do with video games. Its NOT a game distilled. Its just gambling. Its its own entity. You could take away all the screens, all the fancy machines... and the same scores of people would Still be there gambling, without a machine in sight.
--- Quote ---I guess my point is, everybody like different games. We all might like one genre or era more than another, but they're all equally good, because "good" is purely subjective, and you can't tell anyone what they like most, you can only tell us what you like most.
--- End quote ---
My point is that I can have my own Opinion, and express it. I think a certain game isnt good, so I say so. Its the inverse of you saying you like a certain game. We are all entitled to it.
I never asked or forced you to Like what I like.
However, when someone starts spewing things I know are false... such as how we were debating on how different games were created in the past... then yes, Im going to correct someone on those points.
Malenko:
the more I read of Exouche the dumber I get.
Even when he starts to make sense or even when I agree with something he type, his execution is so piss poor and delusional you just stop reading and scroll the the next post, which in this case is him again so you keep scrolling.
Robotron is great, Ive played it on a dedicated machine with leafs, I've played it on a conversion cab with 8way supers, Ive played it on my mame cab with 8way comps. I do about the same on all of them. I like the game.
I like Smash TV more. I dont care about the technical aspects or deeper strategy with robotron, I just have more fun with Smash TV. And no I dont like Total Carnage better than SmashTV
ChrisK:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on February 15, 2012, 01:10:49 am --- Sorry, but Id love to prove this to you all day long. Go out and get an ancient PC with doom running on it... then grab a sit-down Race Drivin machine. Tell people you are raffling off the chance to win one of the machines. But that they have to check off which prize they would prefer to win on the entry. Id be shocked if ANY of them checked the old pc.
--- End quote ---
That's a bit of a straw man, considering Race Drivin is an expensive game cabinet and Doom can run on a 486 (or a number of crappy old cell phones, for that matter). You could also ask people which they'd have at home, and the majority would likely say Doom, citing "my wife would kill me" or "I have no room for Race Drivin" as reasons.
To be completely honest, I'd probably go with Doom, too. I'd LOVE to have a Race Drivin cab, but I don't have the floor space to dedicate to one game. Or rather, I have other higher priorities for that floor space (kids room, garage space, etc).
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on February 15, 2012, 01:10:49 am ---And in an arcade setting, Id also wager the Race Drivin will out-earn an PC running Doom. Doom is the type of thing people lazily do at home. Its nothing special. There was even an FPS Arcade game in the doom style made.. and I never once had seen anyone play it the entire time I was on location. Outrun got more play than that pile FPS.
--- End quote ---
I'm sure. But if you're basing goodness on revenue it's hard to match the $100mil Doom 2 has made (ref Wikipedia).
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on February 15, 2012, 01:10:49 am ---
--- Quote ---I'll also add, parenthetically, that Race Drivin has a very unrealistic driving model, as you might expect from a game of its era, and while a lot of sim racers I know would discount as a waste of time for that, I found it a lot of fun.
--- End quote ---
Hard to believe that, considering that the math calculations were created from an Engineer who specialized in advanced physics, and racing.
From Wiki:
"Physics
The engine, transmission control, suspension, and tire physics were modeled in conjunction with Doug Milliken[4] who was listed as a test driver in the game credits. In the 1950s his father William Milliken of Milliken Research led a team at Cornell Aeronautical Laboratory in Buffalo NY USA (later Calspan) that converted aircraft equations of motion to equations of motion for the automobile, and became one of the world's leading experts in car modeling.[5]"
--- End quote ---
It might be hard to believe, but it's true. Even if Race Drivin was a paragon of accuracy and 10 years ahead of its time, there's the simple matter of computational power. There's a huge list of features of a modern sim like Forza that Race Drivin doesn't model. Tire temperature and wear is obvious, and alone should illustrate how far sims have come. But lest you think I'm blowing smoke, does Race Drivin model sidewall flex? Aerodynamics? Differential lockup? Dampers? Caster? Torque steer? Realistic road surfaces? Lateral vs longitudinal tire grip? I'd be surprised if all four tires have individually-modeled brakes in Race Drivin. Forza does all this stuff at 60 frames per second. For twelve simultaneous cars.
I don't think this one is an argument you can win. Forza or iRacing or even Gran Turismo has a more realistic driving model than Race Drivin, full stop. That's not a value judgment on Race Drivin vs Forza, that's just a fact of the computing power of the time. If you doubt my objectivity, please find someone with a modern sim and a steering wheel setup and try one before you judge.