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I think I hate leaf switch sticks.....
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DaveMMR:
I think my involvement in this thread got carried away a bit; I only intended to jump in with a quick additional example about how specialized controllers were scrapped for the the conventional "off-the-shelf" parts. Whether the reasons were good or bad, no one could say unless they were a fly on the wall. And to say "it may have made even more money" is wild speculation - just like many of my arguments.

I can see that maybe during the golden age, more time and money went into cabinet and control designs. But someone has to write the checks and I'm sure there were compromises made.  If these classics always had the best controller, why do we have this?

That all being said, the "whatever-they-had-lying-around" sticks back in the old days were typically well-made and designed for heavy abuse. That's why we still remember them as "the perfect stick for XYZ". 







Xiaou2:

--- Quote ---If these classics always had the best controller, why do we have this?
--- End quote ---

 The gameplay Hacks you listed, have nothing to do with anything.   There are people that Assume that Timepilot and Gyruss "Should" have used a spinner, due to the way the game looks... and the advantage that a spinner can provide.

 However, thats probably not the case at all.

 Part of the challenge of Gyruss, is being patient.  If you try to risk moving too far too quickly... you might not make it.  It results in a lot of 'that was close' moments.

 In Time Pilot, it barely makes any sense.  Have you ever spun a bi-plane in a complete 360 for 20 seconds?  With a spinner, you could do that... and it would look stupid, as well as being unacceptably unrealistic.   Furthermore, it would require gameplay that was about 10 times more difficult and fast.  The games PCB hardware probably wasnt even capable of it... even IF a designer wanted to do that.

 Because it takes time for thrust to work, just like a car takes time to accelerate to speed (not instant full speed),  theres no real advantage in using a spinner.   Its extra cost, with no real player gameplay benefit.

 In Tempest, its acceptable.. because the entire game is abstract.

 Pong was way back in the day... and it used analog controllers...  and look at all the Sprint driving versions, and games with optical wheels (giant spinners)..  well before Time Pilot or Gyruss.   You really think they couldnt get away with a small optical controller?  Especially in the Hayday of unique controller methods?  Sorry... but its foolish think to think that.

 Take a scroll thru all the cabinets of 82/83... and you will quickly see a ton of cabs with crazy controller schemes.  Including the ever legendary Discs of Tron Environmental cab.


And finally, a quote from Wikipedia about the designers inspiration:
"The free-roaming style of gameplay used in Time Pilot was influenced by Namco's Bosconian"

 Bosconian was not a spinner game, nor was it fast.


 Im not saying that there are not any games in which the designer was forced to use a cheaper controller solution.  Im saying that its not those games.   Its funny, cause the designer of TP, was doing it in secret because they wanted him to make a driving game instead. Driving games use wheels typically... and he could have easily disguised his creation as a driving game - using the same optical controller.

 And even if it all were true... which its not...  Even IF a designer wanted to make a game a certain way, the direction and effort of game balance was still based on the controller that was chosen.  They didnt program the entire game with a spinner... and then swap out the controller with a joystick.  That would have been suicide... as it took a ton of time tweaking the games balance, difficulty, and formulas... and all that would have had to have been re-done... adding Months to the release date.
Xiaou2:

--- Quote ---"whatever-they-had-lying-around" sticks
--- End quote ---

 The sticks they had around, were designed, tested, and created for a reason.  Its not like they magically were poofed into thin air by the joystick fairy.


--- Quote ---That's why we still remember them as "the perfect stick for XYZ".
--- End quote ---

No. They were perfect for the games, because the games were designed with those controller from the Start of development.  The game was fine tuned to perfection with them.

Of course, maybe Gauntlet's leaf controllers may have been less accurate than a Wico leaf.  However, did Wico leafs exists at time time?  Were they more or less durable than the Atari versions?  This kind of argument is almost pointless however, because as Ive said... Gauntlet is one of those kinds of games that isnt critical in controlability.  The only worry for that kind of game IS lasting reliability.  Robotron on the other hand... requires very precise control... and thus, the Wico leafs were chosen.  If the original designers only had some cheaper controllers that didnt work so well... they would have had to slow down the game and reduce its intensity. (slower projectiles and less enemies)
 
DaveMMR:
Okay you're right. Everything was perfect.  ;)  

To be blunt, I didn't even really care that much. The games were fun and I wasn't standing there wondering, "I bet they could have made this better."  I'm not looking to rewrite history here.

RandyT:

I think the thing everyone needs to keep in mind is that when this stuff hit the streets, it was seriously new technology.  This wasn't the arcades in their twilight, and at that later time, I'm sure cost cutting and sacrifices were made o' plenty. 

But when you look at the games introduced in the "hay day" of arcades, these companies needed to hit the ground running, with their best foot forward.  They were showcases, not only of new tech, but of what that particular company could do with it.  It's a difficult concept to grasp in the modern day, where we can barely imagine putting very expensive controllers on a game that nowadays can be played on a cell phone, or seemingly not much different than the free "flash" games one can download from the internet.  But these machines were the best of the best.  Skimping on the controls was simply not an option, but if there was a wild controller they couldn't bring together before a deadline, sure, they probably "punted".  That isn't to say, however, that they didn't make darned sure that what they did settle upon was extensively play tested and the game tweaked to suit it.  This is why you remember the gameplay with a specific controller.  It was how the manufacturer meant it to be played.

It was a very different time, and one you probably would have had to experience first-hand to truly understand.
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