GroovyMAME and SCART TVs? (Answer = Yes! They work well together!)

[Paradroid]

BTW, I don't know if this is physically possible at all but I'd love to see a picture of your 14 CRT TVs collection all together before you get rid of them, it might become handy when my wife complains about my hobby.

HAHA! Yes, I've been thinking of doing that. In fact, I was thinking that with the right software and enough hardware I could make an awesome '80s video wall.

BTW, I think it was 18 at last count...

[apfelanni]

i d like to test a radeon 9200 agp card on a scart tv with composite sync out. ( soldering a fitting cable right now ) . do i have to install powerstrip or netframework + catalyst control center to switch it from separate to composite sync ? or is there a hidden switch somewhere in windows . if so i cant find it . i m using win xp 32 . do i need a resitor in the pin 13 vga to scart pin 20 line to fix the sync ouput level ?

btw. with calamitys driver the additional resolutions in mame are a real benefit compared to the few a 9200 avga offers. nice work and a real alternative to avga and soft 15 k .

ps. if i post a pic of my tv junkyard ur wife will allow anyhing u want ..

[Calamity]

i like to test a radeon 9200 agp card on a scart tv with composite sync out. ( soldering a fitting cable right now ) . do i have to install powerstrip or netframework + catalyst control center to swith it from separate to composite sync ? or is there a hidden switch somewhere in windows . if so i cant find it . i m using win xp 32 . do i need a resitor in the pin 13 vga to scart pin 20 line to fix the sync ouput level ?

In case you haven't seen it, this link is gold:

http://www.geocities.ws/podernixie/htpc/cables-en.html

If your monitor accepts only composite syncs, it is not recommended to connect H and V signals together. If you use an ATI card you can enable composite sync in ATI control panel or WinModelines. Then connect VGA pin 13 to composite sync input (do not connect pin 14). If you still experience problems, you may have to change output polarity from ATI control panel or replacing -hsync -vsync by +hsync +vsync in all modelines within WinModelines.

So you can use Winmodelines to enable composite sync for ATI cards, it's a very light app that doesn't even need to be installed.

Yeah make sure to send pics 

[apfelanni]

one more question ( or maybe two ) :

- how do i get the avga radeon 9200 running with the patched cataylist drivers ? do i need to fresh install them and delete the vga drivers or shall i install them over the avga drivers ? 

- cant find a setting in the modelines prg for switching to " composite sync " . 

[Calamity]

- how do i get the avga radeon 9200 running with the patched cataylist drivers ? do i need to fresh install them and delete the vga drivers or shall i install them over the avga drivers ?  

First uninstall any ATI drivers and run CatUninstaller to make sure the system is clean, then install the patched drivers.

- cant find a setting in the modelines prg for switching to " composite sync " .  

The option appears when it recognizes the ATI registry (you need to run it in the target computer). It's "C-Sync" and has two check boxes "VGA 1" and "VGA 2". Chech the first one, press "Apply changes" and restart, that should do the trick.

[Paradroid]

Been really busy with holidays and socialising. Still haven't found the time to get stuck into testing and comparing all my TVs.

However, I just made it to SCART TV number 20! And it's a really beauty! I was driving to a coffee shop this morning and spied a Blaupunkt on the side of the road. Also, there was a bag of cables and an LG DVD player. You can imagine my delight when, after carrying the damn thing up the stairs, I plugged it in and it worked! Not only that, the image is excellent. I could tell by the OSD that the picture was going to be very sharp and solid. No pics of it operating yet but check out what a score it was!

[jimmy2x2x]

Nice score!

I wish I had the space to collect CRT's I really love them and hate the fact they are vanishing 

[Paradroid]

I'd love to see a picture of your 14 CRT TVs collection all together before you get rid of them, it might become handy when my wife complains about my hobby.

Here you go! As promised, the full line-up! Today is the day. Some (!) TVs are moving out. Please don't think that I have a mental illness. I'm actually a pretty normal person.

[Calamity]

LOVELY! ABSOLUTELY!   

Now we're definitely ready for madmax to come.

BTW congratulations for your new blog, really cool.

[lettuce]

Haha that's ridiculous!! And Im getting greif for having just 3 TVs sitting in the back room!. Can we have an itinerary of what's pictured?

So out of all those you still haven't found a good substitute for Mame?

[Calamity]

Hi Paradroid,

Before you give away your Loewes, there's a possibility I'd like to test for R-Type like games (256 lines). Maybe if they accept lower hfreq of 15.2 KHz we can get those modes fit the screen:

monitor_specs0 15200-16200....

[Paradroid]

Before you give away your Loewes

Thanks! Will definitely test. I've gave 2 Loewes to a charity shop on Friday, sold my best CT1170 for $50 on Saturday (guy came to pickup another Loewe and I told him how good that CT1170 was so he left with 2 TVs ). However, I kept the Contur 1470 because it still can't be beat for the 224 line games. The E3000 chassis is that good (image quality wise)!

I'll get back to this after we deal with the other thread I just started.

[Paradroid]

Have a quick look at my blog. Finally, we have R-Type on a Loewe! Looks pretty cool but the victory doesn't feel as sweet as it would have 3 months ago since I'm an analog chassis guy now.

[Calamity]

Well, good to know! That's useful information anyway. I know that particular Loewe Profil 29" because it was in the bar right down here, I'm pretty sure cause I lunch there everyday. It was replaced by a plasticine-picture LCD just a few months ago.

[Paradroid]

I know analogue controlled Sonys are all the rage these days but take a moment to check out a Loewe E3000 chassis in it's prime: The almighty Calida 5072.

I already sold this beauty on to a fellow enthusiast (console gamer) who was searching for this particular model number. Before I packed it up, I tried my absolute best to get this sucker to show 256 lines without having to drop down in the the >52 Hz PAL zone. I spent a good half hour in Arcade_OSD and just could not get it to happen. The top and/or bottom lines were always missing. I have to conclude that it's just not possible with these TVs. I'd love someone to prove me wrong because the image quality is outstanding...

[Calamity]

So today I was reading the wikipedia and stumbled upon this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL

Many 1990s onwards VCR players sold in Europe can play back NTSC tapes/discs. When operating in this mode most of them do not output a true (625/25) PAL signal, but rather a hybrid consisting of the original NTSC line standard (525/30), but with colour converted to PAL 4.43 MHz - this is known as "PAL 60" (also "quasi-PAL" or "pseudo PAL") with "60" standing for 60 Hz (for 525/30), instead of 50 Hz (for 625/25). Some video game consoles also output a signal in this mode. Most newer television sets can display such a signal correctly, but some will only do so (if at all) in black and white and/or with flickering/foldover at the bottom of the picture, or picture rolling (however, many old TV sets can display the picture properly by means of adjusting the V-Hold and V-Height knobs — assuming they have them). Some TV tuner cards or video capture cards will support this mode (although software/driver modification can be required and the manufacturers' specs may be unclear). A "PAL 60" signal is similar to an NTSC (525/30) signal, but with the usual PAL chrominance subcarrier at 4.43 MHz (instead of 3.58 as with NTSC and South American PAL variants) and with the PAL-specific phase alternation of the red colour difference signal between the lines.

I'm just thinking that managing this PAL 60 mode might be the reason why these relatively new CRT TVs have problems with 256-line modes, and why in general they tend to mess with vertical centering by themselves, could it be they're trying to compensate for the PAL 60 foldover??

Now, probably you have already tried EVERYTHING, but I remind my Loewe had options to select the SCART's input standard, usually set to AUTO but you could also force it to NTSC, PAL, etc. So, does switching between these standards have any effect on the picture height when in a game?

[Paradroid]

Hey Calamity. Thanks for the info and your persistence!

I don't currently have an E3000 in the house at the moment. They've all been sold, recycled our trashed. I'm pretty confident that I exhausted all the options. You're right in that the Loewe has per channel options for the NTSC/PAL standards it used. However, none of these settings would allow 240 or 256 lines no matter what I tried in Arcade_OSD. The only way was to force PAL mode by going below 52 Hz.

The reason that I persisted so long with those Loewe E3000 is because of the exceptional image quality. My search now is for an analogue controlled chassis with the same quality. Sometime I'll document the behaviour of these digital type chassis when resizing the image. Changing the height also affects the E/W, pincushion and width. More like squashing an orange (if you can picture that) compared with the neat effect of adjusting height on an analogue chassis (where ONLY the height changes).

I do have a Loewe C9003 in a box waiting for a new power switch. That'll be interesting to test as it's an earlier model (still digital).

Thanks again!

[Paradroid]

Ok, ok...

So, my girlfriend was out tonight (rock and roll dancing class) and I decided it was about time I fired up this Loewe C9003 chassis I've had sitting around for a while now. This chassis was pulled from a Contur 770. Looked the same as a CT1170 except the plastic casing is grey instead of black. Anyway, the TV cost me $1 but when I got it home I found the power switch was broken. I could push it in and hold it to get power but the TV would turn itself off. Tonight I desoldered an identical switch from a Grundig I found on the street a couple weeks ago. Real pain to do this without a desoldering station... Anyway, I soldered the donor switch in, hooked the chassis up to a Philips A66EAK tube I had laying about and fired it up (while standing back in case the sparks started to fly).

Amazingly, the TV came to life and stayed on. Picture was very clear with excellent focus (Loewes are great like this). OSD menu system looks pretty retro compared with the later chassis types and the picture is completely free from digital artefacts. Fired up Street Fighter 2 and it looked lovely.

Then, for the real test... R-Type.

Guess what? After a little tweak of the Service Menu (V-size only) all the lines where there! Crazy. After all the frustrating Loewes I've tried it was pretty cool to see R-Type showing correctly on a Loewe TV.

Despite the lovely picture, I'll probably stick with my analogues. Service Menus are just too annoying in comparison. However, this is still a pretty cool discovery and certainly adds more weight to the general argument that "older is better" when it comes to CRTs (and LCDs it seems) for use with GroovyMAME.

I'll document this on my blog and list the other models with the C9003 chassis. From what I saw tonight, it would make a great choice for someone looking to run GroovyMAME on a SCART TV.

[Lomaxx]

Is there some way to describe how digital artifacts in this context look like? I only can think of anything like when watching DVB-streams while having a bad connection or compression-artifacts in digital-movies/-pictures, but I guess these differ.

[lettuce]

Nice find!

I now have a total of 3 (21", 25" & 28") AE-1 chassis Sony TVs! So ill be doing the pot mod that Paradroid has done at some point.

Speaking of which, do you have the service manual for the AE-1 chassis Paradroid which as the ratings for the pots??

[Paradroid]

I now have a total of 3 (21", 25" & 28") AE-1 chassis Sony TVs!

Far out man! How'd you find all them?! I've been looking everywhere here and haven't seen any sign of another AE-1. I still need to make the time to play with the one I have and discover it's potential... might just be the ultimate, that one. I'm interested to know the models so I can put them on the spreadsheet I've started.

Is there some way to describe how digital artifacts in this context look like?

Yes. Hard to capture with a camera though, I've found. The effect is often subtle and the natural blur effect of the camera tends to hide it.

I were to try and describe the effects of a Loewe or Grundig 100 Hz model, I'd say the biggest problem is colour bleed and edge distortion. Some colours and colour combinations are far worse than others. For example, red against black looks terrible (opening text to Street Fighter III). Also, in Rainbow Islands, on a 100 Hz Loewe, the rainbows look completely distorted. Almost like the graphics ROMs have been corrupted.

On some of the digital chassis 50/60 Hz models, the processing is more subtle but you definitely notice a difference between them and, say, the ancient Sony AE-1 chassis Lettuce mentioned. It's as if the image is artificially sharp or something. I don't know... easy to see, hard to describe.

Anyway, these are some of the reasons that I continue to search. It's fascinating to observe the differences. It's a pretty cheap hobby when you're chasing SCART TVs. Of course, if I were buying actual arcade chassis this kind of fussiness would get expense real quick.

[Paradroid]

Just for the record, here's a photo of the Loewe C9003 chassis showing 256 lines. I tried to go 288 as well but the screen just rolled (even though the image looked complete).

[lettuce]

So by their very nature what are Scart TVs capable of, just a 15khz display or are the 24khz?? As I know the snes console did resolutions like 256x224 up to 512x478 which are both 15khz & 24khz resolutions aren't they? But then also the first Xbox did resolutions as high as 640x480 and 800x600 and I'm sure these are 31khz signals?. So are TVs multisync compatable then??

[Calamity]

So by their very nature what are Scart TVs capable of, just a 15khz display or are the 24khz?? As I know the snes console did resolutions like 256x224 up to 512x478 which are both 15khz & 24khz resolutions aren't they? But then also the first Xbox did resolutions as high as 640x480 and 800x600 and I'm sure these are 31khz signals?. So are TVs multisync compatable then??

If SNES did 512x478 it must have been interlaced for sure. TVs are 15.7 KHz only, although some of them can tolerate up to 16 KHz or more.

[lettuce]

So by their very nature what are Scart TVs capable of, just a 15khz display or are the 24khz?? As I know the snes console did resolutions like 256x224 up to 512x478 which are both 15khz & 24khz resolutions aren't they? But then also the first Xbox did resolutions as high as 640x480 and 800x600 and I'm sure these are 31khz signals?. So are TVs multisync compatable then??

If SNES did 512x478 it must have been interlaced for sure. TVs are 15.7 KHz only, although some of them can tolerate up to 16 KHz or more.

Yeah thats what i thought. Using Groovymame as an example, take the game Rampage which is a 24khz game how come that is able to be displayed on a CRT Scart TV, does groovymame not output it at 24khz or something??

[Calamity]

Hi lettuce,

Actually Midway MCR-III games used an interlaced display, so they run at 30 Hz (60Hz interlaced - 15 KHz).

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1889184

A sample of 24 Khz resolution is 512x384@60Hz, like the one used by ssprint. What GroovyMAME would do with this resolution depends on your monitor setup in mame.ini. If you select a plain CGA monitor, GroovyMAME will 'virtualize' this resolution to 640x480@60i.

[lettuce]

Hi lettuce,

Actually Midway MCR-III games used an interlaced display, so they run at 30 Hz (60Hz interlaced - 15 KHz).

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1889184

A sample of 24 Khz resolution is 512x384@60Hz, like the one used by ssprint. What GroovyMAME would do with this resolution depends on your monitor setup in mame.ini. If you select a plain CGA monitor, GroovyMAME will 'virtualize' this resolution to 640x480@60i.

So what would it do if you were using a multisync monitor (CGA/EGA/VGA)?

[Calamity]

Well then of course it will use a 24kHz (EGA) modeline for 512x384@60.

[Mopsta]

Just wanted to chime in and thank you guys for how helpful this thread has been for me.

Started using soft15khz about 2 years ago with a metz tv in my cab - it ended up having issues which were beyond the scope of my abilities to fix. Decided recently to start looking for another scart tv and discovered calamitys drivers and groovymame - great work.

After reading paradroids blog (fellow aussie, so found it very helpful) I managed to get my hands on two Loewes -

Profil    3470 - e3001 phillips blackline s tube
Contur  770

The image quality on the Profil was outstanding so the tube and chassis are now happily mounted in cab.  However it has some geometry issues which I am trying to resolve through the service menu (carefully). Im using the nokia calibration software and having a hard time getting my head around which values in the service menu effect what - any advice for a novice like myself? Or is type of stuff best left to a proffesional.

Also experiencing missing lines in some games like dkong, raiden, frogger , mk etc. Ive checked the overscan (V-amp) and the lines are definately missing. Should I be opening these resolutions in arcade_osd and tweaking the values to try and correct this? Once you save any changes in arcade_osd do you need to run vmmaker again?

Paradroid - I noticed in another thread you planned on experimenting a bit with c64 emulation and scart TVs, have you had any success with perfect PAL sync, since the c64 has a horizontal refresh of 50.12hz Ive never managed to get smooth scrolling with emulators like Winvice.  I managed to use arcade_osd to get a refresh rate extremely close with my loewe which is definately a big improvement but still drops frames here and there. Getting perfect c64 emulation on my cab is one of my ultimate goals!   

Anyway thanks heaps guys and keep up the good work!

[Abubu]

Hello,

Awesome post, a lot of useful informations here.
Big kudos to Calamity and Paradroid (awesome blog!!)

Best regards.

[Paradroid]

Just wanted to chime in and thank you guys for how helpful this thread has been for me.

Glad you got something out of it! This thread turned into a bit of an epic... I certainly learnt a lot from it!

Profil    3470 - e3001 phillips blackline s tube
Contur  770

Cool. So, you've got an E3001 and C9003 chassis, correct? In my experience, the E3001 has less geometry issues than the E3000 (which develops a trapezium effect when the refresh rate moves away from 60 Hz). I assume the Profil has an ESF type Philips tube? These are flatter than the EAK tubes. The C9003 is probably coupled with an older type tube. You can get that thing looking awesome by hooking it up to a newer Philips tube (I tried this myself).

The image quality on the Profil was outstanding so the tube and chassis are now happily mounted in cab.

Those Loewes are pretty nice, hey?

However it has some geometry issues which I am trying to resolve through the service menu (carefully).

Got some pics? I can probably tell you if it's something that can be corrected. Some old chassis can't be adjusted to "perfect". I assume this is to do with the age of certain components. For example, I went through three Loewe CT1170s. Two could produce pretty much perfect geometry but the other had an issue with the width (couldn't be expanded all the way).

Im using the nokia calibration software and having a hard time getting my head around which values in the service menu effect what - any advice for a novice like myself?

Tell me the specifics and I'll try to help. There are a lot of options for colour calibration and some stuff do with "H blanking" on the E3001. Those options won't help your geometry though.

Or is type of stuff best left to a proffesional.

I think a lot of professionals have the attitude of "you can watch the news on it, right? Well? What are you complaining about then?" I could be wrong though. I think enthusiasts like us are more likely to spend the time searching for "perfect" rather than "good enough". Actual repairs are different to adjusting and tweaking, of course.

I'll get back to your other questions tomorrow... Until then, where about are you located? I'm in Melbourne. You're welcome to stop by and check out all my junk if you're in the area. Cheers!

[Paradroid]

Also experiencing missing lines in some games like dkong, raiden, frogger , mk etc. Ive checked the overscan (V-amp) and the lines are definately missing.

You'll know from the beginning of this thread that I struggled with getting more than 224 vertical lines to show on a Loewe. No amount of tweaking in Arcade_OSD solved the problem. The only way was to force PAL mode by lowering the refresh rate dramatically.

The C9003 chassis will do 256 lines but not the E3000 or E3001. Later models (Q2400 and such) have the same issue. Check with your Contur 770 and see if it has the same problem...

I noticed in another thread you planned on experimenting a bit with c64 emulation and scart TVs, have you had any success with perfect PAL sync, since the c64 has a horizontal refresh of 50.12hz Ive never managed to get smooth scrolling with emulators like Winvice.

Hmm. I've only touched on the C64 stuff briefly. I had a couple games of (you guessed it ) Paradoid using WinVice. I didn't notice the sync issues because Paradroid was never smooth to start with. Looked amazing on a 26 inch screen though! I never had such a huge telly for my C64 when I was a kid.

What would be awesome is if we all chipped in and bought Calamity's wife a weekend away to some kind of health spa (or the opposite, her choice ) so he could stay home and work out how to apply his modeline engine to MESS. That'd open up the world of native CRT modes to a whole range of systems...

I'll be the first to pledge AUD $100 towards that weekend retreat.

[Mopsta]

Cool. So, you've got an E3001 and C9003 chassis, correct? In my experience, the E3001 has less geometry issues than the E3000 (which develops a trapezium effect when the refresh rate moves away from 60 Hz). I assume the Profil has an ESF type Philips tube? These are flatter than the EAK tubes. The C9003 is probably coupled with an older type tube. You can get that thing looking awesome by hooking it up to a newer Philips tube (I tried this myself).

I haven't spent much time with the contur as when i turned it on the picture was shifted downwards about 3cm and squashed - I'm assuming the v-amp and v-position just need to be adjusted but it didn't come with a remote. When I get a chance I will try access the service menu with the profil remote and have a bit of a play with it. But yeah, have the e3001 chassis in the Profil, I had a friend help me mount it in the cab and we were amazed at how easy the Loewes are to pull apart. Pretty much had it all out and neatly mounted in under an hour. The metz on the other hand was a massive pain in the butt - which is mainly the reason why it's taken me such a long time to get motivated and replace it.  So glad I did now , I can totally understand why you have a collection  It makes me cringe to think of how many good CRT's have been destroyed, feel like I need to save them all!

Got some pics? I can probably tell you if it's something that can be corrected. Some old chassis can't be adjusted to "perfect". I assume this is to do with the age of certain components. For example, I went through three Loewe CT1170s. Two could produce pretty much perfect geometry but the other had an issue with the width (couldn't be expanded all the way).

That would be awesome!  I will post some pics and more detail about what values I have been playing with a bit later on tonight (will be a bit busy for the next few hours). I had some success with it last night and managed to get fairly straight horizontal edges but the whole picture is skewed from top to bottom, It doesn't seem like there is anyway to correct this?

Tell me the specifics and I'll try to help. There are a lot of options for colour calibration and some stuff do with "H blanking" on the E3001. Those options won't help your geometry though.

I've adjusted Hblank start/stop so it's just a few lines outside the horizontal edges of the test pattern, I'm assuming this is correct?

I'll get back to your other questions tomorrow... Until then, where about are you located? I'm in Melbourne. You're welcome to stop by and check out all my junk if you're in the area. Cheers!

I'm on the Gold Coast but if I lived down that way I would definitely stop in say gday  Likewise, if your ever up this way for whatever reason let me know - your welcome to visit and check out my 'lab' 

Click for large view

As for Winvice, I'm using Uridium and Turrican as my test games as they both should have silky smooth scrolling. If you ever get a chance can you give them a whirl and let me know how they run on your setup. 

I will test the 256 line games on the contur and report back, Is there a quick and dirty way to get around this limitation in the meantime? [EDIT - Just re-read your post and realised you said there was absolutely no way! Damn what a shame] I also have a about 5 different ATI cards, do different cards offer more flexibility with resolutions.

I will post a follow up later on with some pics of the Profil geometry, thanks so much for the response!

[Mopsta]

I'll be the first to pledge AUD $100 towards that weekend retreat.

Sounds good to me! How much do we need to come up with! 

[Tusten]

I have been following the various MAME-scart treads with great interest, and I have to admit I have become a scart scavenger.Very addictive.

I have found 25" (59cm) tubes to be ideal for my cabinets. However, they are a bit difficult to come by, and the chassis they are paired with often are less then ideal and have digital artifacts (especially dot crawl).

Based on advice in thise threads I have collected some TV sets with Philips A59EAK... tubes. However, I am currently looking for chassis upgrades i.e. analog chassis or older chassis with less artifacts. I wonder if it is possible to swap chassis from larger TV sets with e.g. A66EAK to my A59EAK tubes (many Grundigs and Philips have the same chassis for different tube sizes). To my understanding this should be OK as long av the yokes have similar readings.

Anyone having experience or advice in this regard?

[Paradroid]

Based on advice in thise threads I have collected some TV sets with Philips A59EAK... tubes.

Hmm... A59EAK... don't think I've come across that size before. Recently, I found a Bang & Olufsen MX 4002 on the road side. That had a Philips tube in it. Forget the size. I try to blog most stuff but I keep getting in a situation where it's the weekend I just have to get rid of some stuff and forget to take photos. I think maybe it was a A51EAK?

Anyway, I have two older Grundig CUC 6300 chassis TVs here. Both are 51cm... still not what you're after! Shame... I could have posted you one!

I would recommend looking through the service manuals for Grundig and Philips. Certainly, the Grundig SMs have notes on which components need to be changed in order accommodate different sized tubes. I would certainly recommend an older Grundig chassis. The 4/5/6xxx series analogue chassis have all been excellent for GroovyMAME. Basically fire up GroovyMAME, adjust the vertical size pot when switching resolutions and every thing is close to perfect.

[Paradroid]

I'm on the Gold Coast but if I lived down that way I would definitely stop in say gday  Likewise, if your ever up this way for whatever reason let me know - your welcome to visit and check out my 'lab' 

Thanks man! I haven't been up that way for years now. I love the warm weather... plus, I have have great memories of the awesome arcades (and Grundys!) on the Gold Coast back in the late '80s and early '90s.

Your "lab" looks really fun! I wish I had that much space! No room for doing cab stuff here... Also, you've got a Battlestation II!!! How cool are they?! I gutted mine and put the innards of some USB gamepads in there. Works great! I actually picked it up in a Cash Converters on the Sunshine Coast for $25 back in 2000.

Let's see some pics of your E3001 problems and I'll let you know what I think is possible... If your cab was loaded with an EAK tube instead of the ESF I would have offered to send you the guts of a Siemens I have here (Grundig CUC 6360 chassis from memory...) that is far more compatible than the Loewes (but with a small sacrifice in image focus and stability).

[Calamity]

What would be awesome is if we all chipped in and bought Calamity's wife a weekend away to some kind of health spa (or the opposite, her choice ) so he could stay home and work out how to apply his modeline engine to MESS. That'd open up the world of native CRT modes to a whole range of systems...

Ahaha 

Yes that would definitely help but might end up with me getting drunk the very first night. By the way I am not that familiar with MESS and I remind I read it was a somewhat promising project but required too much resources compared to specific emulators, so it was in a too early stage as to consider it a valid substitute for the myriad of emulators out there. But this was long ago so probably it's not true anymore, does any one have some experience with it? I believe it shouldn't be too hard to adapt the modeline engine.

[Tusten]

Hmm... A59EAK... don't think I've come across that size before. Recently, I found a Bang & Olufsen MX 4002 on the road side. That had a Philips tube in it. Forget the size. I try to blog most stuff but I keep getting in a situation where it's the weekend I just have to get rid of some stuff and forget to take photos. I think maybe it was a A51EAK?

I can confirm that the B&O MX4002 have A51EAK. I have two units, but the B&O chassis were disappointing for GroovyMAME use. Would like to swap chassis if I find a good match. The B&Os looks terrific though.

Anyway, I have two older Grundig CUC 6300 chassis TVs here. Both are 51cm... still not what you're after! Shame... I could have posted you one!

I live in Norway, so guess it is the same dilemma as you and Apfelannie have been discussing

I would recommend looking through the service manuals for Grundig and Philips. Certainly, the Grundig SMs have notes on which components need to be changed in order accommodate different sized tubes. I would certainly recommend an older Grundig chassis. The 4/5/6xxx series analogue chassis have all been excellent for GroovyMAME. Basically fire up GroovyMAME, adjust the vertical size pot when switching resolutions and every thing is close to perfect.

Actually, part of the reason for posting the topic is that I recently picked up a Grundig with cuc 4410 chassis and A66EAK tube. Several of the chassis that you and Apfelannie have been recommending are much easier to find with larger tubes. A list of components to change would be perfect. Guess I have to do some research on the service manuals. However, not having a background in electronics makes them difficult to understand
 

[apfelanni]

philips a59eak...x01and a66eak..x01 have the same yoke and are 100 % compatible . they work with loewe , grundig , metz , blaupunkt and even with some sharp tv chassis . its the most common eu 50-60 hertz tube of the last 25 years i guess. 25 inch to 28 inch may have a manufacturer ratio of 1:10 , so the smaller ones are spread a little thin . the 28 inch are ok , but i prefer the 25 and 21/20 inch class for lowres gaming . these kind of tubes also work well with hantarex polostar multisync chassis 15-38 khz and valvo ( philips ) 93-10 , 93-11 .

i have to remind u : forget about the 100 hertz brothers . maybe a lot of people try to mame a 100 hertz tv .. its a pita .. the 100 hertz chassis suck ass .. i only consider em in vga mode , when all the picure enhancers are bypassed / disabled . all scart attempts with 100 hertz tvs presented an artifical more lcd like picture. the pictrue may not be that bad , but i has nothing in common woth old style arcade gaming .

.. anyone in euroland shouldnt have a prob finding a fitting philips , grundig , sony or whatever for arcade replacement ....  i m still surprised how many eu brands made it down to australia .. thought the market would have been more dominated by asian brands , like the us market. grundig manuals are available anywhere .. most philips on philips.com .. metz took most manuals of their homepage , coz they wonna sell flatscreens and dont wonna support any more old crts.  

here are some useful docs and links : https://rapidshare.com/files/3565851615/chassis.rar