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Why the LCD TV hate?
nitz:
--- Quote from: Paul Olson on November 20, 2011, 02:40:28 am ---It doesn't require a compile, but it would definitely require a lot of work. Ideally, it would turn into a project to modify the lay files that are included in the artwork files. It just requires that a new view is added to the lay file, and of course new images if needed. It would be great if they could be added to the official artwork files, but I don't know how that team would feel about it. It is a lot of work since this is per game, but I imagine the popular games would be the ones that are most likely to get done.
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Good to know. I found that page when I was looking for info on it and then assumed you needed to compile.
--- Quote from: Jack Burton on November 20, 2011, 04:19:16 am ---HLSL is still just another kind of filter and does reproduce the image from a CRT.
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I'm assuming from the context you meant "does not reproduce the image from a CRT". ;) I know that of course, my point isn't that LCDs are as good as CRTs for old arcade games - they're not and never will be. My point is that I can get close enough (IMO) with an LCD now that seeking out and then messing with an arcade monitor isn't worth it to me. I can't bring myself to pay to get a heavy piece of old equipment shipped to me, not really knowing what shape it's in or long it'll last when there is a reasonable alternative. And I feel I would have to go arcade monitor instead of TV. A TV is not really the same as an arcade monitor anyway, so heck, I can get something that's not quite the same as an arcade monitor with an LCD, and at least I can use HLSL to tweak it to how I want it to look.
--- Quote from: Jack Burton on November 20, 2011, 04:35:57 am ---
If all that matters to you is the gameplay then you're going to want to pay attention to your monitors and your video modes.
You used space invaders as an example. That's a shmup. Those types of games are notorious for requiring pixel perfect spacing at the highest levels of play.
Well, let's say you fired up MAME in whatever random resolution your desktop is configured for and switched to full screen.
Now your screen has been scaled, and then probably blurred. It's likely the scaling was not an exact duplicate, and now extra pixels have been added to the image that were not previously there. Those extra pixels don't really exist. They're just part of the image you see, but aren't being considered by the game's programming.
So that single pixel move you have to make to squeeze through the bullet pattern on the final boss of a game like Do Don Pachi is now actually divided between the real pixel and the new "fake" one and blurred, making completion of the level nearly impossible.
Sure, you can 2x, 3x, 4x etc scaling, but those may not fit the screen right either. The game's resolution might not be a multiple of 4:3. Some old games like SFII did this. In this case you will have to squeeze it or stretch it anamorphically via software or your LCD monitor controls, and that adds scaling.
Unless you have a CRT. A CRT monitor can "automagically" stretch a non 4:3 res into full screen without scaling the image. It can also sync to multiple refresh rates, something even more important than pixel spacing.
Anybody who uses an LCD monitor is going to be locked into a single refresh rate among a variety of arcade games that used different ones. The solution to that is to use V-sync and triple buffering, or simply play your games at the wrong speed. But if you use V-sync then you get that damn input delay again.
So, yeah, gameplay can't be so easily divorced from video software or hardware.
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I'm know all of that is absolutely true. And those things bug me a bit to some degree, but they can be mitigated somewhat by messing around in software. And I'm the kind of guy who would rather mess around in the software side of things than mess around with trying to interface to, maintain, and repair old pieces of tech.
I totally understand people's need for the CRTs. It just seems like too much trouble for too little benefit to me.
:cheers:
ed12:
welp as i first posted
we all know crt's are going the way of the dodo bird..that's a given
happ has 27-29" on for $365.00 pentrec chassic
trimode
that aside i went to our local rehab and philip's 27-29" flat screen crt
$55.00..so my point was is if your into it
sure there is a ton of way's to keep the GOOD_OL_FEEL..
but how much is your time effort worth ?
if it is your's and this is a side line then i totaly get it
if it is to go back in the feild then no way .. <lcd-olny>..
in home crt if u can stock em,in field no way
do the math 25 game's of any age
=25 crt's of dif size's..thats alot of real state just to keep the feel
ed
ahofle:
--- Quote from: nitz on November 21, 2011, 09:28:41 pm ---I'm know all of that is absolutely true. And those things bug me a bit to some degree, but they can be mitigated somewhat by messing around in software. And I'm the kind of guy who would rather mess around in the software side of things than mess around with trying to interface to, maintain, and repair old pieces of tech.
I totally understand people's need for the CRTs. It just seems like too much trouble for too little benefit to me.
:cheers:
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--- Quote from: ed12 on November 21, 2011, 11:36:12 pm ---sure there is a ton of way's to keep the GOOD_OL_FEEL..
but how much is your time effort worth ?
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I think people overestimate the difficulty of using an arcade monitor. I'll bet people spend more time fiddling with software effects than it takes to get an arcade monitor running. With software like Groovymame and CRT_EmuDriver, I would argue it's now less work to use an arcade monitor (it chooses the correct and exact resolution AND refresh for you). I can't stand screen tearing and running games at the correct resolution completely eliminates this. That's a pretty big benefit.
Jack Burton:
--- Quote from: nitz on November 21, 2011, 09:28:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: Jack Burton on November 20, 2011, 04:19:16 am ---HLSL is still just another kind of filter and does reproduce the image from a CRT.
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I'm assuming from the context you meant "does not reproduce the image from a CRT". ;)
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right.
--- Quote from: ahofle on November 22, 2011, 01:38:44 am ---
I think people overestimate the difficulty of using an arcade monitor. I'll bet people spend more time fiddling with software effects than it takes to get an arcade monitor running. With software like Groovymame and CRT_EmuDriver, I would argue it's now less work to use an arcade monitor (it chooses the correct and exact resolution AND refresh for you). I can't stand screen tearing and running games at the correct resolution completely eliminates this. That's a pretty big benefit.
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Indeed. Really, if you can track down a professional video monitor like a Sony PVM or some such all you really need is a pc with a video card capable of outputting 15khz and a VGA cable. Sometimes you might need to find a VGA>BNC cable. No decasing, no breakout cables, no scary voltages, no spending hundreds of dollars. Sure, they're not -really- arcade monitors, but they're miles and miles closer to a true arcade-purposed CGA monitor than any LCD.
ZeroPoint:
--- Quote from: lettuce on November 20, 2011, 09:42:55 am ---Speaking of HLSL, anyone got a good setup for Vertical games? Whilst im happy with my settings for horizontal games when im playing vertical game it just doesnt look right, unless i got into video options (tab) and rotate the display 90 degress
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Like this ? : http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=113151.0