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HD prices going up fast

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MonMotha:

--- Quote from: danny_galaga on December 04, 2011, 06:52:53 am ---As an aside, do SSD's have the same limited life span that other memory does, like in USB memory? That is, whether you use it or not, it has a lifespan? If it does, then I'd still prefer a hard drive, since those things last a very long time if not used. My backup is on a portable hard drive that is only used when plugged in to back up for instance. That should last magnitudes longer than my computer...

--- End quote ---

I just noticed that you may have been thinking of a different phenomenon with flash...

All flash has a retention time.  At room temp, it's typically spec'd as 10 years minimum and often manages more like 50-100+ years (obviously this is based on accelerated aging tests, but I do have 10+ year old flash chips that have retained their data just fine).  Higher temp drastically reduces the retention time.  70C may bring it much closer to that 10 years or even bring it a little under, but then again 70C is darned hot.  You can buy 85C rated devices, but you won't find them in consumer electronics.

However, this is just the time it'll retain data.  If you're concerned with "use it or lose it", you can always erase it and write new data, assuming the translation controller in your device can handle that phenomenon (YMMV).  You may lose data after dozens of years, though.  Flash may not be the best medium for archiving data, but archiving computer data has always been a tricky proposition for several reasons (media retention, interface standards, media formats, file formats, etc.).

Nephasth:
Whoa, usually office depot is way over priced. :o

danny_galaga:

--- Quote from: MonMotha on December 04, 2011, 12:16:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: danny_galaga on December 04, 2011, 06:52:53 am ---As an aside, do SSD's have the same limited life span that other memory does, like in USB memory? That is, whether you use it or not, it has a lifespan? If it does, then I'd still prefer a hard drive, since those things last a very long time if not used. My backup is on a portable hard drive that is only used when plugged in to back up for instance. That should last magnitudes longer than my computer...

--- End quote ---

I just noticed that you may have been thinking of a different phenomenon with flash...

All flash has a retention time.  At room temp, it's typically spec'd as 10 years minimum and often manages more like 50-100+ years (obviously this is based on accelerated aging tests, but I do have 10+ year old flash chips that have retained their data just fine).  Higher temp drastically reduces the retention time.  70C may bring it much closer to that 10 years or even bring it a little under, but then again 70C is darned hot.  You can buy 85C rated devices, but you won't find them in consumer electronics.

However, this is just the time it'll retain data.  If you're concerned with "use it or lose it", you can always erase it and write new data, assuming the translation controller in your device can handle that phenomenon (YMMV).  You may lose data after dozens of years, though.  Flash may not be the best medium for archiving data, but archiving computer data has always been a tricky proposition for several reasons (media retention, interface standards, media formats, file formats, etc.).

--- End quote ---

That's more what I was thinking of. Temperature looks to be a biggie. I shoulda realised. I used to live in the tropics, and my Sony camera memory only lasted maybe 5 years, some of that time was when I moved to a sub-tropical climate. Same with my USB thumb drive. So I went from 35C most of the year, to a climate that varied a bit more, from say 12C to 30C, with higher summer time spikes (but only say a week here and there at 38C).

Oh, hang on. Retention time is what I meant, but my camera memory was being re-written often enough. So I guess that just ran out of cycles and reserve. Over time it could hold less and less pics.

But still, for hard drives I guess I'll stick with what I know for now (",)

Nephasth:

--- Quote from: pinballjim on December 04, 2011, 02:10:14 pm ---Check the thread I linked...

--- End quote ---

Oh I did. Problem is, here in BFE, there is only one Office Depot in a 50 mile radius and it's usually slim pickings for anything there. I also entered that product code into officedepot.com, and it comes up as $164.99. Great little score.

MonMotha:

--- Quote from: danny_galaga on December 05, 2011, 04:55:47 am ---That's more what I was thinking of. Temperature looks to be a biggie. I shoulda realised. I used to live in the tropics, and my Sony camera memory only lasted maybe 5 years, some of that time was when I moved to a sub-tropical climate. Same with my USB thumb drive. So I went from 35C most of the year, to a climate that varied a bit more, from say 12C to 30C, with higher summer time spikes (but only say a week here and there at 38C).

--- End quote ---

I talked to a TI rep about a year ago who was talking about certifying some of their MSP430 flash microcontrollers in fire fighting applications.  The spec was 125C.  Apparently everything was fine, but they could only guarantee the integrity of the flash for about 30 minutes.  Apparently temperature is a big deal when it comes to flash retention (also consider that 125C is darned hot).

One thing to consider when thinking about memory card/USB flash drive longevity: do you ever leave them in your car in the summer?  It can get surprisingly hot in a car.  It's possible to exceed the 70C that most consumer-grade components are spec'd for (note: full assemblies often spec'd lower, especially when operating).

I've also had major issues with dodgy flash media.  It appears to be a similar problem to the firmware glitches I mentioned above.  Sudden, catastrophic failure way before one would expect from a simple erase cycle limitation.  In every case I can think of, the failed devices were no-name cheapies.  I don't think I've ever lost a Sandisk card, for example, but I've had a couple "Super Happy Quality Media" cards die on me.

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