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Walking Dead: Season 2
Howard_Casto:
--- Quote from: Green Giant on March 07, 2012, 03:18:14 pm ---
I feel like he still has some moral tendencies even though he was taking part in the execution. Although it was Rick about to kill him until the little brat walked in.
There are different shades of morality as well. There is Dale's maintain everything from past life. There is Shane's kill anyone who gets in the way of me surviving no matter how little they may or may not impede me. There is Rick's I can do anything so long a I justify it as protecting my family.
And then there is Daryl's do what I can to ensure other's survive morality. I feel as though his is a more realistic view of the world without abandoning all humanity. I loved Dale's speech but I also hated his lack of offering a workable alternative. Why did he not say lock the boy up for one month and then drop him off in a remote location 50-75 miles away?
--- End quote ---
That isn't what I was talking about. Look closely at those reaction shots to Dale's screaming in the last episode. Daryl was standing over the kid about to gut him just before the scream. Even though the group had decided to keep him Daryl was going to kill him anyway. Thankfully he hasn't done anything unforgivable yet, but he is in a real bad place right now. I think you just weren't paying close enough attention to catch it.
There are NOT different shades of morality. Dale's perspective is moral. Shane's is selfish survivalism, no morals involved. Rick's is selectively moral... that isn't true morality. It is true that people can have different morals, but the thing here is that everbody in the group essentially has the same moral values, it's just Shane and to a lesser degree Rick are selectively ignoring them... that's called being immoral. ;)
You can't abandon "some" humanity.... once you start doing that you are automatically acting inhumaine.
CheffoJeffo:
Gentlemen, you speak as if morality is absolute ... and, in that, you are both wrong.
Green Giant:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 07, 2012, 05:23:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Green Giant on March 07, 2012, 03:18:14 pm ---
I feel like he still has some moral tendencies even though he was taking part in the execution. Although it was Rick about to kill him until the little brat walked in.
There are different shades of morality as well. There is Dale's maintain everything from past life. There is Shane's kill anyone who gets in the way of me surviving no matter how little they may or may not impede me. There is Rick's I can do anything so long a I justify it as protecting my family.
And then there is Daryl's do what I can to ensure other's survive morality. I feel as though his is a more realistic view of the world without abandoning all humanity. I loved Dale's speech but I also hated his lack of offering a workable alternative. Why did he not say lock the boy up for one month and then drop him off in a remote location 50-75 miles away?
--- End quote ---
That isn't what I was talking about. Look closely at those reaction shots to Dale's screaming in the last episode. Daryl was standing over the kid about to gut him just before the scream. Even though the group had decided to keep him Daryl was going to kill him anyway. Thankfully he hasn't done anything unforgivable yet, but he is in a real bad place right now. I think you just weren't paying close enough attention to catch it.
There are NOT different shades of morality. Dale's perspective is moral. Shane's is selfish survivalism, no morals involved. Rick's is selectively moral... that isn't true morality. It is true that people can have different morals, but the thing here is that everbody in the group essentially has the same moral values, it's just Shane and to a lesser degree Rick are selectively ignoring them... that's called being immoral. ;)
You can't abandon "some" humanity.... once you start doing that you are automatically acting inhumaine.
--- End quote ---
I am gonna have to watch that one again.
But I disagree that the world is black or white. Dale's perspective was moral and stupid. His view was as extreme as Shane's just on the opposite spectrum. Intentionally endangering your own group is immoral as it leads to deaths.
The big problem is that the group is well.....stupid. The logical and moral solution would have been to detain him until you are confident his group has abandoned him. Then take him to a location so far away he will not feel obligated to return. Also ensure you treat him humanely to ensure he does not want to seek out revenge.
In society there must be punishment for crime. The moral view is to turn the other cheek when in reality that can never work. But I suppose if you are anti-capital punishment then you might think Dale's view is the only option.
Howard_Casto:
You are confusing morality with religion.... they have NOTHING to do with each other.
The moral thing to do isn't to turn the other cheek, that's the christian thing to do... big difference. ;)
Captial punishment is immoral because intentionally killing another person is unacceptable regardless of the situation. We are to interdependant of a species, life is very prescious and we are far too stupid and petty to decide who gets to live and who gets to die. I never have gotten the concept myself... it's even stupid from a logical perspective. When you do something that bad your rights as a citizen are revoked... you are essentially slave labor at that point... people shouldn't want to kill such an individual, they should put them to work. Then their miserable life will make a contribution to society, weather they like it or not.
Dale's viewpoint isn't immoral or stupid at all, if you are a truely moral person. Some people think it's ok to ignore your beliefs if it's for the sake of survival. I'll be frank.. I'd rather die being the person I strive to be than to live with the guilt and shame of doing something unforgiveable. I would also rather see a group of people going down the murderous path put out of their misery before they degrade into a collection of monsters. So the very slight potentional risk of them doing the moral thing versus doing the "smart" thing is well worth it. Unfortantely, a great portion of society is weak... they don't have the same convictions.
Ragardless, nothing Dale EVER suggested put the group in danger, intentionally or not. People are making decisions right now based on the fear of what could happen... not on facts or evidence, just fearful speculation. Someone's instincts no matter how accurate, is not grounds for killing someone. Remember, we are seeing the story from the view of a third party.... we have privy to insight that they don't have.
I will happily agree that they are all stupid though. I really wish that one of these days a show/comic/whatever came out where the protagonists were given at least an above average level of intelligence. It seems like all heroes are dummies.
CheffoJeffo:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 08, 2012, 02:24:29 am ---It seems like all heroes are dummies.
--- End quote ---
That's so the writers can get the majority of viewers to identify with them.
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