Custom Driving Cabinet - WIP Actual Progress!

[mbasile35]

lol ohhhh, well thanks. Its in hyper hq under wheel seetings in the "wheel" tab the first option is style. To put it on the bottom you choose "pin"

[BadMouth]

 

any progress on this?

I was just tinkering with Dolphin and you are correct about being able to map the buttons using multiple devices.
I'm not sure how I got it in my head that I couldn't.

[mbasile35]

any progress on this?

I was just tinkering with Dolphin and you are correct about being able to map the buttons using multiple devices.
I'm not sure how I got it in my head that I couldn't.

Unfortunately no. I ran into a rough patch after i installed the graphics card where hyperspin wouldnt load every time and a bunch of other annoying little problems. I've also been spending a lot of my time building a chirstmas light controller board and messing around trying to make my own sequences.

Anyway the little work i have been doing is strictly computer stuff. The only thing thats keeping the cab from being done is my fear of making the paint look crappy. Once its painted i have everything i need besides art a marquee and the arvade wheel to get it complete.  Have you had anymore luck with FTS ans max speed in Demul? I tried getting them working but gave up quickly. Also, i still can't get FFB in supermodel. I know the roms i have are current and i know that the option is enabled so i dont know what else it could be.

Thanks for checking on this, you made me want to start getting stuff done now!

Mike

[BadMouth]

Have you had anymore luck with FTS ans max speed in Demul? I tried getting them working but gave up quickly. Also, i still can't get FFB in supermodel. I know the roms i have are current and i know that the option is enabled so i dont know what else it could be.

The atomiswave games run "ok".  I never got the brake pedal working and max speed crashes randomly.
Never did get fullscreen working, but you can adjust the size and position of the window to make it appear fullscreen.

I've considered writing up a more comprehensive tutorial on setting up all the emulators.
Maybe even a game by game setup for some, but it's going to take a LOT of time.
I'm reluctant to because most of them require autohotkey scripts and those can behave differently on different computers and operating systems.
If I decide to go through with it, I'll start with Demul and add a section on the Demul .5.7 WIP.

Not sure what to tell you about Supermodel.  I'd still suspect that your roms are missing the required drive board files.
Read the help section at www.supermodel3.com carefully and search the forum.

[ScottoKong]

Hey mbasile35

Any updates?

Have you started you Logitech hacking to the HAPP motor?
I'm a week or so away for getting stuck into it myself and I'm looking for all the help I can get!

SCott

[mbasile35]

Hey mbasile35

Any updates?

Have you started you Logitech hacking to the HAPP motor?
I'm a week or so away for getting stuck into it myself and I'm looking for all the help I can get!

SCott

Nope nothing really new, unfortunately. Badmouth was nice enough to help me with some software issues, and i haven't even got around to playing with them. As far as the wheel goes, i'm still waiting to get a good deal on a used one and i'm sure once i get that this whole project will start coming together. As of right now, i've spent the last month or so messing around with animated christmas lights. I should be done building my display in a week or so, then %100 of my attention is going back into this cab.


Mike

[mbasile35]

Hey everyone


Now that the holidays are just about over I've gotten back into my project. Thanks to Badmouth i finally have force feedback in Supermodel. I am wondering though, is the ffb in supermodel adjustable? I also still need to get MAME roms and i still can't figure out Demul, but those are my last computer issues, then i'm going to start the wheel hack.

I found the wheel and amp, but as far as the power supply goes, is there a certain wattage power supply i should look for?

Anyways, thats all for now!

Mike

[brad808]

you can add

DirectInputConstForceMax = 100
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputFrictionMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 100

to the supermodel config file to adjust ffb

[mbasile35]

you can add

DirectInputConstForceMax = 100
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputFrictionMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 100

to the supermodel config file to adjust ffb

Thanks brad. Have you (or anyone else) messed with these a lot? I just read in the read me file that you can assign values higher than 100. I dont have a hacked arcade wheel yet so maybe its just my wheel, but the FFB seems really weak even at 100 for each option.

[brad808]

you can add

DirectInputConstForceMax = 100
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputFrictionMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 100

to the supermodel config file to adjust ffb

Thanks brad. Have you (or anyone else) messed with these a lot? I just read in the read me file that you can assign values higher than 100. I dont have a hacked arcade wheel yet so maybe its just my wheel, but the FFB seems really weak even at 100 for each option.

I have messed around with them but the only model 3 game I'm going to be using right now is scud race. The others still have quite a few problems that I'm sure will get sorted out in the next few versions of supermodel. My numbers are all below 100 but i doubt they will work for your system. The type of gears used, power supplies used, donor wheel used, amplifier settings and voltage used are all going to play a part so each person will have to mess around and find correct settings depending on how their system is setup.

I basically set my ffb as strong as i felt i would ever need it on my hardware using the windows device manager where you can test ffb effects. From that point I tuned using a combination of logitech profiler and the emulator settings to get a good feeling effect. In most cases it's lower, but i left myself that headroom in the event i ever need it but it's plenty strong.

With that being said I'm still in the process of setting my games up and only have 5 or 6 that i feel really comfortable with.

[BadMouth]

I have scud race cranked way up.
The default is waaaay too weak.
(still using my old logitech MOMO wheel)

Just copy and paste this at the bottom of your cfg file.

Code: [Select]

[ scuda ]

DirectInputConstForceMax = 400
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 200
DirectInputFrictionMax = 0
I think I have them around 200 in Daytona 2, but I'm not sure.

DirectIpnutFrictionMax doesn't do anything in any of the games
DirectInputSelfCenterMax does nothing in Daytona 2, but affects centering in Scud Race.

DirectInputVibrateMax is the shaking, like when you drive accross grass
DirectInputConstForceMax is what pulls the wheel to one side when you hit the wall or another car.

Also keep in mind that there are ffb strength adjustments in Logitech profiler and under Game Controllers in windows.

[brad808]

I have scud race cranked way up.
The default is waaaay too weak.
(still using my old logitech MOMO wheel)

Just copy and paste this at the bottom of your cfg file.

Code: [Select]

[ scuda ]

DirectInputConstForceMax = 400
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 200
DirectInputFrictionMax = 0
I think I have them around 200 in Daytona 2, but I'm not sure.

DirectIpnutFrictionMax doesn't do anything in any of the games
DirectInputSelfCenterMax does nothing in Daytona 2, but affects centering in Scud Race.

DirectInputVibrateMax is the shaking, like when you drive accross grass
DirectInputConstForceMax is what pulls the wheel to one side when you hit the wall or another car.

Also keep in mind that there are ffb strength adjustments in Logitech profiler and under Game Controllers in windows.

Just keep in mind those are YOUR settings for your wheel. unless he has the same wheel/ power supply those may not work for him. If I load those settings on my arcade wheel, my stock driving force, my driving force pro or either one of those wheels with a slightly different power supply voltage it will be much different on every wheel.


Edit: just for reference and to show how much they can vary my scud race settings are in the 50s. Profiler settings will also have an effect.

[mbasile35]

Thanks for the help guys. I mess around more when I get home. I was also wondering what the model of servo amp you used was. Can I pretty much use anything for brush type motors? Right now I'm lookig at three different AMC amps with the model numbers: 25A2OT-LF2  25A2OT-LF3 and 25A2OV-LF3. Would any of these work?

[mbasile35]

Hey everybody

I've just ordered a FFB wheel assembly off of a Cruis'n USA. Now I'm looking for a servo AMP, a PSU, and pots. As far as the PSU goes, on the HAPP page with the steering assembly, it shows under "people who bought this also bought" a 24volt power supply thats rated for 5 Amps/120 Watts. So i figure something with those specs will suffice. I'm still waiting for a response to the Servo Amp model question, but after i figure that out I'm either going to just buy one, or buy a broken one for way cheaper off of ebay and try to fix it. As far as pots go I'm about as lost as you could get. I have no idea where i could get the pots from. I need 50k for the pedals and 100k for the wheel. Happ has 100k ones for $35 and still I don't know if it has the right sized shaft. Any leads on where to find the right pots? I'm looking to put them in standard HAPP pedals and wheel.

[BadMouth]

Thanks for the help guys. I mess around more when I get home. I was also wondering what the model of servo amp you used was. Can I pretty much use anything for brush type motors? Right now I'm lookig at three different AMC amps with the model numbers: 25A2OT-LF2  25A2OT-LF3 and 25A2OV-LF3. Would any of these work?

I'll check the model number on mine when I get home, but 
Mine is 30A8T
pretty much any one for brush type motors should work.
The 25A that the part number begins with means that it can handle 25 amps of current.
I know mine starts with 15A 30A (apparently I don't know).  There are links in the driving cab thread to Mark Shaker's and TheSharkFactor's builds.
I'm pretty sure Mark gives the part # and you can see thesharkfactor's in the pictures.
You might be better off with a higher amp one.

I just bought the 15A 30A one because it was what I came accross (I think I paid $40).
There might be better ones out there.
It's probably a case where not enough people have done it for there to be a standard one that everyone uses.

I wouldn't be in any hurry.  I've only tested mine a few times to make sure it was working.  
It isn't in the cab yet and I havent played very many full games on it.
Let Brad808 work out all the kinks, then follow his lead.  

[brad808]

Hey everybody

I've just ordered a FFB wheel assembly off of a Cruis'n USA. Now I'm looking for a servo AMP, a PSU, and pots. As far as the PSU goes, on the HAPP page with the steering assembly, it shows under "people who bought this also bought" a 24volt power supply thats rated for 5 Amps/120 Watts. So i figure something with those specs will suffice. I'm still waiting for a response to the Servo Amp model question, but after i figure that out I'm either going to just buy one, or buy a broken one for way cheaper off of ebay and try to fix it. As far as pots go I'm about as lost as you could get. I have no idea where i could get the pots from. I need 50k for the pedals and 100k for the wheel. Happ has 100k ones for $35 and still I don't know if it has the right sized shaft. Any leads on where to find the right pots? I'm looking to put them in standard HAPP pedals and wheel.

I sent you the link for the servo amp I bought but if for some reason your able to find the other ones cheaper then they should work. Like badmouth said the first numbers are the amp rating. I bought a 6.5 amp power supply based on other peoples research and recommendation stating that the most the happ motor would draw is 6amps. Again not my research I just bought what I was told... and it works. With that being said the servo amps with 12a,15a,25a,30a etc will all work. The 20 after the 25a is going to be the maximum voltage rating on a scale 1:10. The letters after that the T, V whatever are all different revision numbers of the same amp. So in the case of  25A2OT it is 25amps (more then enough), 200volts dc max (more then enough), and revision T. I wouldn't bother buying a broken one and trying to fix it because I purchased mine (30a8t) for around $50 shipped to my door from the states to canada. Wouldn't be worth dinking around fixing a broken one for that price I wouldn't imagine.

I picked up my pots from a "local" (an hours drive away ) electronics supply store. I was having a hard time finding pots with the flatted shaft so I picked up some plastic pots and used a dremmel to create the flat myself. I would have liked to get some nice heavy duty pots with a flatted shaft that would last forever instead of the plastic shaft but the ones I got seem to be working fine and if it ain't broke I ain't gonna fix it. Just make sure you look for linear pots and not "audio taper" pots as it will make a huge difference.

@badmouth: Hey wait a minute I was supposed to be following you 

[BadMouth]

.....crap, thought I sent that as a PM. 

For the pots, I used $3 ones from Radio Shack.  Like Brad808 said, make sure you get linear taper.
They probably aren't rated for as many duty cycles as the arcade ones, but they're easy to get and cheap.

The shafts are standard 1/4".  The body of them is a little smaller than the arcade ones.
The only issue that I had was that because they are smaller, the tab that keeps them from rotating is a little closer to the center.
As a result, I had to lengthen the slot that holds those tabs on the arcade pedals to make them fit.
It only took a few minutes with a dremel.

I really need to get back to work on mine.  I had a few weeks where I couldn't work on anything and have been lazy ever since.

[mbasile35]

Alright cool, thanks for all of the info. I just bought the servo amp and the 24volt power supply. Now i just have to wait to get everything and then i'll be back into the "hard" part of this project.

[mbasile35]

Hey everybody

Well i finally got the Cruis'n control panel today and already i have a problem. The motor on this assembly is  90 volt DC as opposed to the 24 volt one i assumed i was getting. Every happ force feedback wheel i've seen has had the 24 volt motor, and in fact i'd never even heard of a 90 volt motor on these until last week. So now i can either get my hands on just the 24 volt motor or try an find a 90 volt psu. My questions are: are the motors interchangeable? it looks like pretty much the same thing as the 24 volt motors i've seen...and will my servo amp be able to handle 90 volts dc? Has anyone else dealt with the 90 volt motor?

[brad808]

I'm using 90v dc MAX motor

Sent from my Desire HD

[BadMouth]

You don't want to put 90v to that thing.  It will break your thumbs. 

Like Brad808 said, it's just 90v MAX.
Doesn't mean you have to use 90v.

I think mine is 36v, but I'm only running 24v to it.

[mbasile35]

Ahhh i see. thanks for clearing that up guys. i was a little worried for a second there!

Anyways a little update:  as i mentioned my force feedback assembly came in the mail today, i also i got the servo amp over the weekend and i started dismantling the logitech wheel. I've been busy finishing up the pedal restoration and i'm about to start cleaning up the wheel and shifter i got and i'm also going to be finishing the wheel hack probably this weekend. I've also been doing a little finish work on the cab before i try and paint the thing, i've got a cool idea for the dash board that i'me excited to try but nervous at the same time as i don't want to mess anything up. I know its been waaay too long since i've shown any real progress but little by little it's coming along. I'll get some pics up soon, hopefully by the weekend.

[mbasile35]

Okay so I've been working today on the wheel hack. I got the pots calibrated and the wiring for the amp and motor done but the motor just pulls to the left or right. Also when i went to put everything away i noticed the big resistor on the main pcb was super hot. should i be worried about this? I'm using the driving force ex by the  way. Anyway does anyone have any ideas on the left or right pull? It's not like the gradual pull that I've read it about its just as soon as you move the wheel it slams into the stop. I got things to do tonight so I can't mess with it anymore. Hopefully tomorrow.

[ScottoKong]

G'day

Sounds like you need to reverse the wires going to the HAPP motor - some call this uncentering?!?!

Not sure about the HOT component - I haven't been touching anything!

Scott

[mbasile35]

Yup that, solved that. But now its "centering violently" just going back and forth. Instead of trying to explain i took a video. I played daytona and it seemed like the force feedback wasn't doing anything, and as you can see in the video when i press buttons to test effects it doesn't really change.

[BadMouth]

Only got time for a quick reply.....

Does it stop when you grab hold of it?  Most of us have experienced that, but the wheel wasn't moving that violently.
Are you using the original logitech power adapter or a 12v one? (we are using 12v ones)
Check Brad808's thread for the dip switch settings he used on the servo amp.

I'll try to think of other causes.

[wizkid32]

One word:  Awesome!!!!!!!!

[gbeef]

Yeah i was experiencing the exact same thing with the wheel. If you figure this out let me know... its been driving me insane.

[brad808]

Before I say what the problem was with my rattle (which might be the same for you) can you just confirm that you have all your wires hooked up correctly. It's hard to tell in the video but it almost looks like your motor outputs from your logitech pcb are going to the wrong pins on the amc. They should be going into - ref in and + ref in (pins 4 and 5) directly beside each other.

[brad808]

Assuming all your wires are hooked up correctly and your amc is setup correctly, the problem looks very similar to what I’m able to reproduce by turning up my “centering feedback” and my “spring feedback”. Some pretty interesting things happen when you put a voltmeter on the motor outputs of the amc and look at the results as you change settings regarding the different feedback parameters in logitech profiler/ windows game controller menus.

With my setup (might be slightly different from yours due to power supplies) I’m able to produce the “rattle” by sending a centering feedback signal that is slightly higher then 3V at full lock from the logitech motor outputs to the amc inputs.

When the centering/spring voltage from the motor outputs on the logitech are BELOW 3V and I take my voltmeter and measure the motor outputs on the amc and slowly move the wheel to full lock I will see my voltmeter move in a linear fasion from 0V at center to 24V at full lock.

When the centering/spring voltage from the motor outputs on the logitech wheel are ABOVE 3V and I take my voltmeter and measure the motor outputs on the amc I will see 0V at center and then it will reach 24V about 10% of the way to full lock (hold on tight). I believe this is the primary cause of the “rattle”
What appears to be happening is the motor suddenly gets shot 24V which sends the wheel flying past its center point so it tries to correct itself and the same thing happens.    

This may be why you aren’t seeing any ffb effects when you use blown tire, wooden bridge etc  because the wheel is basically being feed a bunch of 24V signals (max) from the amc.
This is the exact reason why I took the playstation out of my cabinet because the majority of games don’t allow you to control individual ffb parameters. They simply have an “overall” type ffb control, either more or less, and unfortunately not something I could easily automate while switching games (that I’ve figured out yet anyways). The beauty of logitech profiler is it allows you to change each of the parameters. In other words games that have a centering or spring feedback that will equal a voltage larger then 3V from the logitech at full lock will have the option to turn down that individual parameter while still being able to maintain a strong “effects” feedback for car hits things like that.

Again the actual voltage that YOUR wheel goes crazy might be a little bit different then the voltage that MY wheel goes crazy. I'm not sure what the exact differences are between the driving force and the driving force ex are but I would assume minimal. Power supply voltages will definitely play a large part though. The point is there was a very exact voltage where my wheel would go from a nice steady 0V to 24V at full lock and then up the voltage and now my wheel goes 0V to 24V about 10-20% of the way to full lock (creates rattle). Figure out where it is on yours and you should be golden.

Now to start trouble shooting this:
1)    Go through check all your wires
2)   Make sure the amc is setup correctly, My dip switches are 1,3,5 to the left all others to the right (I'm able to replicate my ffb effects using different dip switch options but this is where I'm at now). Loop gain pot all the way to the left. My refernce in was adjusted using a voltmeter to equal 24V at full lock from the amc motor outputs. Adjust the offset using the voltmeter if you see one side reads 23.5 at full lock and the other side reads 24V at full lock. Make sure they both read 24V equally.  

edit: you don't have to have it reach 24V at full lock you could use say 20V or 18V etc to lower the strength. To be honest I can't remember if mine is at the full 24V or if it is slightly less.

3)   Turn centering feedback and spring all the way to 0% and see if you have ffb effects. If so slowly turn up centering until you find it's peak. (wiggle the wheel a bit to get it started to see if it will take off and rattle, just pull it left or right a bit and let go.)

Hope it helps you figure it out


As a side note to everything here I'm not entirely convinced that using a 12V power supply is necessary if the hack is only being done on a computer (where you have access to ffb control logitech profiler/ windows manager etc). From what I can tell the Voltage leaving the logitech motor outputs is directly related to the percentage of ffb effects parameters. The important thing is that the amc can't handle any reference in above 15V. So basically if you used the stock logitech power supply (24V) but had the ffb sliders turned down low enough the actual signal leaving the logitech motor outputs can still be below 15V and would be acceptable for the amc reference in. But if you have a spare 12V dc power supply laying around then it would be safe to use knowing that you will never send the amc a signal above 15V vs the stock power supply that has the potential (if you arent careful) to send 24V and damage the amc.

[mbasile35]

Sorry for the delay guys, started a new job last week and the long hours are catching up to me. Anyway thanks for all of the replies, i'll be messing with my setup shortly.

Only got time for a quick reply.....

Does it stop when you grab hold of it?  Most of us have experienced that, but the wheel wasn't moving that violently.
Are you using the original logitech power adapter or a 12v one? (we are using 12v ones)
Check Brad808's thread for the dip switch settings he used on the servo amp.

I'll try to think of other causes.

Yup it stops when you grab on, but continues to move when you let go...like if you were to stop it on center it wouldn't sit there until nudged like you'd think because its already center...if that makes sense. Using the logitech 24v supply..whoops! Guess i should have read everyone's threads a little better

Assuming all your wires are hooked up correctly and your amc is setup correctly, the problem looks very similar to what I’m able to reproduce by turning up my “centering feedback” and my “spring feedback”. Some pretty interesting things happen when you put a voltmeter on the motor outputs of the amc and look at the results as you change settings regarding the different feedback parameters in logitech profiler/ windows game controller menus.

With my setup (might be slightly different from yours due to power supplies) I’m able to produce the “rattle” by sending a centering feedback signal that is slightly higher then 3V at full lock from the logitech motor outputs to the amc inputs.

When the centering/spring voltage from the motor outputs on the logitech are BELOW 3V and I take my voltmeter and measure the motor outputs on the amc and slowly move the wheel to full lock I will see my voltmeter move in a linear fasion from 0V at center to 24V at full lock.

When the centering/spring voltage from the motor outputs on the logitech wheel are ABOVE 3V and I take my voltmeter and measure the motor outputs on the amc I will see 0V at center and then it will reach 24V about 10% of the way to full lock (hold on tight). I believe this is the primary cause of the “rattle”
What appears to be happening is the motor suddenly gets shot 24V which sends the wheel flying past its center point so it tries to correct itself and the same thing happens.   

This may be why you aren’t seeing any ffb effects when you use blown tire, wooden bridge etc  because the wheel is basically being feed a bunch of 24V signals (max) from the amc.
This is the exact reason why I took the playstation out of my cabinet because the majority of games don’t allow you to control individual ffb parameters. They simply have an “overall” type ffb control, either more or less, and unfortunately not something I could easily automate while switching games (that I’ve figured out yet anyways). The beauty of logitech profiler is it allows you to change each of the parameters. In other words games that have a centering or spring feedback that will equal a voltage larger then 3V from the logitech at full lock will have the option to turn down that individual parameter while still being able to maintain a strong “effects” feedback for car hits things like that.

Again the actual voltage that YOUR wheel goes crazy might be a little bit different then the voltage that MY wheel goes crazy. I'm not sure what the exact differences are between the driving force and the driving force ex are but I would assume minimal. Power supply voltages will definitely play a large part though. The point is there was a very exact voltage where my wheel would go from a nice steady 0V to 24V at full lock and then up the voltage and now my wheel goes 0V to 24V about 10-20% of the way to full lock (creates rattle). Figure out where it is on yours and you should be golden.

Now to start trouble shooting this:
1)    Go through check all your wires
2)   Make sure the amc is setup correctly, My dip switches are 1,3,5 to the left all others to the right (I'm able to replicate my ffb effects using different dip switch options but this is where I'm at now). Loop gain pot all the way to the left. My refernce in was adjusted using a voltmeter to equal 24V at full lock from the amc motor outputs. Adjust the offset using the voltmeter if you see one side reads 23.5 at full lock and the other side reads 24V at full lock. Make sure they both read 24V equally. 

edit: you don't have to have it reach 24V at full lock you could use say 20V or 18V etc to lower the strength. To be honest I can't remember if mine is at the full 24V or if it is slightly less.

3)   Turn centering feedback and spring all the way to 0% and see if you have ffb effects. If so slowly turn up centering until you find it's peak. (wiggle the wheel a bit to get it started to see if it will take off and rattle, just pull it left or right a bit and let go.)

Hope it helps you figure it out


As a side note to everything here I'm not entirely convinced that using a 12V power supply is necessary if the hack is only being done on a computer (where you have access to ffb control logitech profiler/ windows manager etc). From what I can tell the Voltage leaving the logitech motor outputs is directly related to the percentage of ffb effects parameters. The important thing is that the amc can't handle any reference in above 15V. So basically if you used the stock logitech power supply (24V) but had the ffb sliders turned down low enough the actual signal leaving the logitech motor outputs can still be below 15V and would be acceptable for the amc reference in. But if you have a spare 12V dc power supply laying around then it would be safe to use knowing that you will never send the amc a signal above 15V vs the stock power supply that has the potential (if you arent careful) to send 24V and damage the amc.

Thanks brad for that awesome post...lots of good info! Anyway i'm not too sure whats goin on in my picture there but i'm definitely wired to pins 4 and 5 on the amc. I'm gonna have to look around for 12v wall supply but in the mean time maybe i'll try to lower the sliders like you suggested.



One new problem i have is that in the midst of moving my setup around from my desk and out of the way and such i broke a leg and pad for the wheel pot off of the main pcb. If you were to hold the driving force ex pcb with the silk screen letters facing up its the leg all the way on the right that's broken. there seems to be a VERY small via that i may try to solder to but do any of you guys who're using the driving force ex have any other plans? I got a really good deal on ebay for my wheel so it won't be so bad if i have to buy a new one...just finding one will be a pain.


Anyway thanks again for everything guys, i'll report back with my findings..then again who knows what i can do with that broken pin...

Mike

[gbeef]

Why can you use the stock 24V vs 12V? is there too much signal? Do you have a suggested 12V supply out there/

[BadMouth]

Managed to find enough time to do a little testing with the driving force ex pcb this evening.

My wheel doesn't shake like that by itself, but if I move it to the side and let go, it will do the same thing yours is doing.
If I grab hold of it, it stops though.
If I reduce the centering feedback to 10%, it will stop doing that.  I played Daytona and the centering force that the game applies takes over and works fine.  Still had no wobble in the menu.
BUT, if the car sits still on the track, I get the wobble.  
It goes away when the game ends and goes back to the menu.

It did the same thing whether using 12v or 24v, although the resistor you mentioned getting hot only got slightly warm with the 12v adapter.

Not really a solution, but that's all I had time for this evening.
I'm probably sticking with the MOMO in my cab, but I'd like to figure this out.

[brad808]

Managed to find enough time to do a little testing with the driving force ex pcb this evening.

My wheel doesn't shake like that by itself, but if I move it to the side and let go, it will do the same thing yours is doing.
If I grab hold of it, it stops though.
If I reduce the centering feedback to 10%, it will stop doing that.  I played Daytona and the centering force that the game applies takes over and works fine.  Still had no wobble in the menu.
BUT, if the car sits still on the track, I get the wobble.  
It goes away when the game ends and goes back to the menu.

It did the same thing whether using 12v or 24v, although the resistor you mentioned getting hot only got slightly warm with the 12v adapter.

Not really a solution, but that's all I had time for this evening.
I'm probably sticking with the MOMO in my cab, but I'd like to figure this out.

If you have centering feedback AND spring feedback turned down to 10% and you still get wobble on the track when you are stopped try messing around with the ffb parameters in the emulator ini.

The M2 games were all very different for me so each game is in its own folder with its own emulator.exe file and its own ini so you can change the following on a per game basis.
;FE_CENTERING Effect (Spring centering effect)
;FE_CLUTCH Effect (Friction, wheel turn hardness)
;FE_LEFT,FE_RIGHT (Constant force in a direction)
;FE_UNCENTERING (Sine force, wave the wheel, rumble)

I just checked and confirmered that my wheel does not have the "rattle" when stopped on the track... but I remember it did at one point and those would be the parameters I messed with.



I'm not sure what the default settings are but for daytona these are mine right now and they seem to be working really good. You will definitely have to tweak them for your system a little bit but it might be a good starting place. I have good ffb, good resistance, centering etc. (logitech profiler centering and spring both at 12% on my system)

;FORCE EFFECTS PARAMETERS
;FE_CENTERING Effect (Spring centering effect)
FE_CENTERING_Gain=0.5      ;Global gain
FE_CENTERING_Coefficient=10000   ;0-10000
FE_CENTERING_Saturation=10000   ;0-10000
FE_CENTERING_Deadband=1000   ;10%

;FE_CLUTCH Effect (Friction, wheel turn hardness)
FE_CLUTCH_Gain=0.0      ;Global gain
FE_CLUTCH_Coefficient=10000   ;0-10000

;FE_LEFT,FE_RIGHT (Constant force in a direction)
FE_LEFT_Gain=1.0      ;Global gain
FE_LEFT_Magnitude=10000      ;0-10000
FE_RIGHT_Gain=1.0      ;Global gain
FE_RIGHT_Magnitude=10000   ;0-10000


;FE_UNCENTERING (Sine force, wave the wheel, rumble)
FE_UNCENTERING_Gain=1.0      ;Global gain
FE_UNCENTERING_Magnitude=10000   ;0-10000
FE_UNCENTERING_Offset=-200
FE_UNCENTERING_Phase=0
FE_UNCENTERING_Period=56000




It may be the "wheel turn hardness" because I notice that is at zero but play around and one of those should fix it.

Edit: Looks like default is 1.0. I have my hardness at 0 and I'm still stiff 

[mbasile35]

Hey guys

did a little more messing around with my setup and I'm a lot closer to where i want to be. for starters i was able to fix the driving force ex pcb by soldering the wire from the pot onto the TP1 pad. The input to the computer is a little bit "shaky" on screen if that makes sense, but its not too bad and it could be the pot for all i know.

I also took your guys' advice and switched to a 12 volt adapter. I metered the AMC inputs with all FFB effects down to 5% and it still maxed out at 20 volts. after switching the adapters and turning the effects back up to 100% i got much better results. The motor still wobbles but much less violently. Again, rather than trying to explain everything i took a video, this time messing around with the wheel in daytona's attract mode and then a race in daytona. One weird thing i noticed was that when you put stress on the motor (holding it all the way left or right for example) it makes an odd sound...sorta of beep but not really. Anyway you can ehar the sound in the video, especially at the end when the camera gets close to the motor.



thanks again for all the help. hopefully i can get this thing working even better soon!

[brad808]

Have you tried turning your reference input gain potentiometer on the amc all the way down and slowly turning it up?

Sent from my Desire HD

[brad808]

If one of you guys doing this hack want to do an experiment I have an idea that might be worth a shot regarding the rattle.

#### warning just an idea/ experiment/ test ####

1) Hook the logitech pcb to the 100k steering pot and remove the logitech motor outputs from the amc.

2) calibrate the wheel in logitech profiler

3) using a 12v power supply on the logitech pcb measure the voltage at center, full lock left and full lock right.

4) physically move the potentiometer to the point that the calibration will definitely be different.

5) recalibrate the wheel in logitech profiler.

6) remeasure the voltage at center and both sides full lock.

Ideally those voltages should both match. I'm curious though (haven't tested myself just brainstorming) if the ffb voltage isn't changing when we recalibrate our wheels. If that is the case then our pots would have to be installed at exactly center, not slightly off and recalibrated to center in software (which works fine for steering, but maybe not ffb).


I wouldn't imagine this is the case but it would be nice to rule out as a possibility

Sent from my Desire HD

[BadMouth]

The input to the computer is a little bit "shaky" on screen if that makes sense, but its not too bad and it could be the pot for all i know.

Most likely just the connection.  Mine did that when I had everything patched together with alligator clips.

[BadMouth]

Some more thoughts to go with brad808's brainstorming....

1.  I had the same issue with the MOMO hack when I first hooked it up, so I don't think this issue involves the potentiometer.

2.  The wobbling can also be corrected by turning down the gain on the servo amp, but then all the ffb effects are weak.
     But what happens if we turn down the gain until the wobbling stops, then run a higher voltage to the motor?
     I have a big old adjustable lab power supply that I can try it with, but I don't remember how high it goes.
     (could help with playstation use if it actually works).

3.  It would be nice to isolate whether this is a problem with the servo amp,
     or if the wheel just has so much momentum that goes past center.
     (my wheel is detachable.  I can try it with no wheel present)
     I suspect it's a signal thing, or some kind of delay introduced by the AMC, or the happ motor being slow.

4.  I still don't understand what most of the DIP switches on the servo amp do.  

I might get to leave work at a reasonable hour tonight.  If so, I'll do some testing.

  

[gbeef]

I tried turning down the gain also. FFB is null ill have to try the centering see what happends.
And the DIP`s i have no clue either Brad what are your settings on

Ill need to find a 12V see if that works.