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Author Topic: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)  (Read 30977 times)

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bent98

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Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« on: August 19, 2011, 02:52:21 pm »
What is the fastest 3d preforming PCI-E video card with best compatability for Groovy Mame?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 01:41:37 pm by Calamity »

kalars123

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Re: Best video card
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2011, 12:36:01 am »
I Run a 4890 and it works perfectly though calamity had to modify the drivers to get them to work with it, I'm not sure if he has made that change permanent with the drivers he is distributing now, hopefully he can answer.

iori01

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Re: Best video card
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2011, 08:21:19 am »
Hi Kalars123,

I also have a 4890 but I didn't succesfully install calamity driver.
Can you tell me how did you do it ?

Many thanks.

kalars123

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Re: Best video card
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 12:57:07 am »
here is a link to the modified drives to make the 4890 work. These files were modified by Calamity and not I, I can not provide any support outside of telling you to install them just like his normal driver package.  No warranty is expressed or implied use at your own risk, if you computer becomes self aware and decides to destroy all human's well it's been nice knowing you.

http://www.filesonic.com/file/1763526824

this is hosted on a on filesonic without an account so I would snag them while you can they probably won't last long

Bent98 you may want to change the topic header to say "updated drivers for ATI 4890"

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Re: Best video card
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 08:27:21 am »
Here's a mirror without the waiting:
http://cotmm.org/groovy/crt_emudriver_9.3_1.2_x64.7z (17.9mb)

Also made it available as a .zip also, though it's quite a bit bigger:
http://cotmm.org/groovy/crt_emudriver_9.3_1.2_x64.zip (25.4mb)


Calamity

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 01:46:07 pm »
I've updated the drivers so both versions (32/64 bits) support the HD 4890 card, the most powerful video card that has been succesfully tested for GroovyMAME + CRT_Emudriver in Windows.

http://mario.groovy.org/GroovyMame/WindowsATIDrivers/

The files are:

crt_emudriver_9.3_1.2a_xp32_multisync.rar
crt_emudriver_9.3_1.2a_x64_multisync.rar
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

krick

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2011, 02:42:28 pm »
What, specifically was different about the Radeon HD 4890 that required a driver modification?

Does it affect all the models in the whole Radeon R700 family?...

Radeon HD 4890
Radeon HD 4870
Radeon HD 4860
Radeon HD 4850
Radeon HD 4830
Radeon HD 4770
Radeon HD 4750
Radeon HD 4730
Radeon HD 4670
Radeon HD 4650
Radeon HD 4550
Radeon HD 4350

I have a low-end Radeon HD 4550 based card that is both low-wattage and fanless, which makes it a decent choice for an arcade cabinet, where ventilation is somewhat limited...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819
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Calamity

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2011, 02:46:49 pm »
What, specifically was different about the Radeon HD 4890 that required a driver modification?

Probably the HD 4890 model was not available yet when Catalyst 9.3 was released. However, I just needed to add its hardware PCI ID to the driver's installation files to get it supported.

So the driver's binaries are exactly the same (it won't affect previous models at all).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

krick

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 03:02:30 pm »
I managed to find some fanless Radeon HD 4650 cards on ebay...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=T0Y1D

Apparently, it was a Dell part.
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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 11:06:01 pm »
Are there any issues using the cards newer than the 4350 in regards of low dot clocks?  I seem to recall from my days using soft-15khz that the 4350 was the last card produced to achieve low dot clocks...??

krick

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 01:21:35 am »
Are there any issues using the cards newer than the 4350 in regards of low dot clocks?

Good question.  The way I understood it, the dot clock limit is based on the actual design of the card and the components used, not the specific chip, though could be wrong.

I wonder if there's any way to test the dot clock and start some sort of list of cards (by exact model number) with low dot clocks.
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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2011, 11:09:14 pm »
what card would u guys say is best to use for arcade out of these 2.. if u talking about a fanless one...

MSI R5450
http://www.villman.com/Product-Detail/MSI_R5450_MD1GH
or
ATI Radeon 4350
https://www.evertek.com/viewpart.asp?auto=69990&cpc=NEWARR


krick

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Calamity

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2011, 04:34:56 am »
I don't think the Radeon HD5450 is supported by CRT_EmuDriver...
http://mario.groovy.org/GroovyMame/WindowsATIDrivers/

As krick says the HD5000 family not supported by CRT_EmuDriver (Windows). However, it should work fine under Linux with the GroovyArcade distribution.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2011, 06:21:49 pm »
happy i atleast asked... now i know to stay away from the 5000s... thanks

Calamity

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2011, 12:25:44 pm »
Are there any issues using the cards newer than the 4350 in regards of low dot clocks?  I seem to recall from my days using soft-15khz that the 4350 was the last card produced to achieve low dot clocks...??

Good question.  The way I understood it, the dot clock limit is based on the actual design of the card and the components used, not the specific chip, though could be wrong.

I wonder if there's any way to test the dot clock and start some sort of list of cards (by exact model number) with low dot clocks.

According to the experience with Linux (and the patches done by bitbytebit), the dotclock lower limit seems to be software related. There's probably no physical limitation of the hardware that prevents it from getting lower dotclocks. But drivers limit achievable dotclocks between some upper and lower limits they get from the videocard's rom (not always).

A dotclock is a frequency value. When you request a given dotclock to the driver, it needs to program the PLL dividers, in order to convert the videocard's master clock frequency (i.e. 400 MHz) into the frequency (dotclock) we are requesting. It's an arithmetic problem. Drivers contain specific algorithms to achieve that, which depend on the chipset. So some chipsets may work better with some values than others. The problem here is that not all achievable dotclocks are stable, so picking the right algorithm is critical as this is a common source of troubles for driver developers it seems.

Now, for older ATI cards I've tested (R 9250, R X300), even if they're BIOS sets a limit for their lower dotclocks (which required a specific patch in GroovyArcade), that value seems to be happily ignored by Windows drivers, which admit nearly any imaginable dotclock for these cards.

The problems started with later models of the X family, and for the whole HD 2000 and HD 3000 families. For those cards, Windows drivers seem to use a dotclock's lower limit of around 7 MHz. That makes them not the best choice for emulation, as they will refuse to work with resolutions lower than 384x or 400x, unless you set huge porches to artificially increase the dotclocks required. Fortunately we can still use these cards by creating modes with double width, so Mame will scale the frame and the result will be perfect. But anyway, it's better to pick one card that can natively do really low resolutions, as there are more emulators other than MAME that may not be so smart.

Fortunately, HD 4000 family can, again, do any low dotclock, as it was the case of older cards. We don't have patched drivers for anything above HD 4000, and probably won't, so one card of this family is the best choice if you wan't to have a full working 15 KHz card while still have a relatively modern (or not so ancient at least) card.

Probably that 7 MHz limit of the other cards could be unlocked by patching the Catalyst video drivers, but that could (or could not) be a collosal task, and after all you can get a more modern card from the HD 4000 for a few dollars.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

strontium

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2011, 01:47:20 pm »
Just so you know, I recently brought a HD 4350 after reading this post as I wanted a little more grunt on my PC. Unfortunately I could not get the card to work  :banghead:, the drivers installed the card was detected but I could not get a sync through my J-Pac. So in my opinion the 4350 does not work. I put my ATI 1300 pro back in my cabinet and it just worked no problems.

Really a shame as now I have to send the card back etc.... It would be really nice to have a definative list of cards that work with calamity drivers (because when they work they really are the best option over others aka soft15khz and arcadevga.

gabe

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2011, 02:06:28 pm »
Just so you know, I recently brought a HD 4350 after reading this post as I wanted a little more grunt on my PC. Unfortunately I could not get the card to work  :banghead:, the drivers installed the card was detected but I could not get a sync through my J-Pac. So in my opinion the 4350 does not work. I put my ATI 1300 pro back in my cabinet and it just worked no problems.

Really a shame as now I have to send the card back etc.... It would be really nice to have a definative list of cards that work with calamity drivers (because when they work they really are the best option over others aka soft15khz and arcadevga.
Specifically, what 4350 did you get?

There is at least one "4350" made by MSI that was not a true 4350. It used the ATI mobility chipset, and if I recall, it was actually based on an HD5xxx design. This was noted by another member here, and is also noted in the comments at NewEgg, where it was recently on sale:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127544

MSI made another TRUE 4350, which does indeed work, as it is actually built to ATI's specs. This model is currently available at TigerDirect:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5083793&SRCCODE=WEBLET03SHIP&cm_mmc=Email-_-WebletMain-_-WEBLET03SHIP-_-03ship

EDIT: Here is the post in which DaBone outlines the differences:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=111052.msg1179680#msg1179680
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 02:09:56 pm by gabe »

Calamity

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2011, 02:07:08 pm »
Just so you know, I recently brought a HD 4350 after reading this post as I wanted a little more grunt on my PC. Unfortunately I could not get the card to work  :banghead:, the drivers installed the card was detected but I could not get a sync through my J-Pac. So in my opinion the 4350 does not work. I put my ATI 1300 pro back in my cabinet and it just worked no problems.

Really a shame as now I have to send the card back etc.... It would be really nice to have a definative list of cards that work with calamity drivers (because when they work they really are the best option over others aka soft15khz and arcadevga.

Hi strontium,

The HD 4350 DOES work, that's sure. It's not so great in performance for 3D games (SF IV won't run at 60Hz with vsync), but the card works and it's the one I used for testing patched drivers indeed.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

krick

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2011, 02:20:31 pm »
The HD 4350 should work.  It's in the list of supported cards on the driver page...

http://mario.groovy.org/GroovyMame/WindowsATIDrivers/

If it wasn't working, then something else might be wrong.

You might want to try running the ATI Catalyst Uninstaller utility before installing the new drivers...

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1275

There might also be a problem with which port on the card you were using.  Did you try both ports?

What desktop resolution were you running?

Was the image on your monitor rolling?  Maybe you just need to fiddle with the vertical hold settings on the monitor.

I'm sure Calamity might have some more ideas.
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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2011, 07:11:45 pm »
ok guys thanks for the quick responses, I may as well say this straight away you were all right and I was lets say a bit quick out the blocks in saying it did not work. It was not easy to get going I had to use the ATI uninstaller and it did not help having my BIOS set to boot to the onboard first (done for a reason to hide the boot screens) Any way long story short after reading what you guys said and some trial and error I have in deed got the card working. Basically sorry and thanks ha ha  :-[

Any ways off point a little, here is a question for the community. I have replaced my 1300 pro with this 4350 in the hope of it really speeding things up but I have to say my initial thoughts are that it has not made a huge difference. I know that MAME does not use 3D acceleration but I was kinda hoping to see huge improvements in Gradius V on the PS2 emulator and dreamcast games.

Maybe it's early days and I'm just a bit fried from trying to get this working tonight so will assess again tomorrow with a clear head, but would you guys think that the 4350 is a major step up in power over the 1300 pro.

Thanks again

Strontium

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2011, 05:33:23 am »
Hi strontium,

You may find this interesting:

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

Actually, X1300 PRO and HD4350 have very similar benchmarks it seems.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2011, 09:11:21 am »
But for MAME (if your only using MAME) do you really need a 4 series HD ATI card??, MAME is all about CPU power not GPU isnt it?? Calamity if you had to say one ATI to get just for MAME use and the best compatabiltiy for GroovyMAME would would you select??

Ive been looking at the ATI x600 256MB......



its dead small which is ideal for the project im thinking of, micro mobo, integrated CPU so really small out lay to plug into a CRT TV is scored on ebay for 5 all connected up via SCART lead
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 09:14:43 am by lettuce »

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2011, 10:02:28 am »
Yes the X600 should work fine, it does with Soft-15Khz:

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?7925-Getestete-Grafikkarten&p=81413&viewfull=1#post81413

You don't need a fancy card for MAME unless you're going to use HLSL (not the case), R 9250 and R X300 are perfect and use the VGA as their primary output, opposite to HD 4000 family, and support Catalyst 6.5 (200 video modes with hacked drivers).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

lettuce

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2011, 11:02:36 am »
Cheers Calamity, any ideas on the HD3000 cards?, im looking at a mini itx motherbord that has a HD3000 integrated into it?

EDIT looking at the HD3200 integrated card on this mobo........http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?7925-Getestete-Grafikkarten&p=89760&viewfull=1#post89760

Looks like the minimum Pixel-Clock is 7.12MHz and need a custom modeline...what sort of effect would this have in regards to GroovyMAME?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 11:10:21 am by lettuce »

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2011, 11:10:15 am »
Cheers Calamity, any ideas on the HD3000 cards?, im looking at a mini itx motherbord that has a HD3000 integrated into it?

Keep away of HD2000 and HD3000 families, they work but can't do low pixel clocks (you wouldn't need to scale 320x resolutions)
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2011, 11:14:33 am »
Ok, ill still with either X300 or X600 then

So any cards after the HD 2000 series have some resolutions that wont work like under 320x240 for example? So in that instance what is the best performance card to try and get that have all resoultions available to it
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 11:16:49 am by lettuce »

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2011, 11:52:41 am »
Just bought a XFX Radeon 4550 HD yesterday, but the video on my CGA monitor is scrambled. Do I need a EDID?

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2011, 12:28:00 pm »
Ok, ill still with either X300 or X600 then

So any cards after the HD 2000 series have some resolutions that wont work like under 320x240 for example? So in that instance what is the best performance card to try and get that have all resoultions available to it

R 7xxx, 9xxx, X300, X600 work fine

HD 2000, HD 3000, X1xxx low pixel clock problems.

HD 4000 work fine, HD 4890 most powerful supported card so far
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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2011, 12:55:16 am »
Sounds like HD 4250 (880G) motherboards might be good.  Anyone try one out?

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2011, 08:06:58 pm »
I have the Gigabyte AMD 790GPT motherboard with ATI Radeon HD 3300 Graphics and 128MB DDR3 SidePort memory.  I just tried it for you and I can confirm it will load Hyperspin, intro video, wheel art, etc.  It will not play any games in MAME, Atari, Sega, NES or SNES.   Just as a reference point.

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2011, 11:24:58 pm »

You don't need a fancy card for MAME unless you're going to use HLSL (not the case), R 9250 and R X300 are perfect and use the VGA as their primary output, opposite to HD 4000 family, and support Catalyst 6.5 (200 video modes with hacked drivers).


According to Wikipedia, the "Radeon X600 XT" is in the same family as the X300 but has more memory and is quite a bit faster...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_Graphics_Processing_Units#PCI-E_.28X3xx.2C_X5xx.2C_X6xx.2C_X1xxx_series.29



You can get them on Ebay starting at $10.  Not sure if the Dell versions will work with standard ATI drivers though.  Dell used to be kind of bad about that sort of thing back in the day.  Not sure about now.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 09:15:20 am by krick »
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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2011, 04:21:08 am »
Sorry Krick, I was trying to quote your post and edited it by mistake, deleting the first part, could you please rewrite it?

I've tested some X300 cards shipped with Dell machines and they work fine with standard ATI drivers. I was surprised as had read some issues on that regard.

X600 (and probably others from the X family) should work fine. We tested the X1950 Pro and it can't do low dotclocks, so at some point in the middle they changed something.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2011, 08:00:18 am »
I managed to find some fanless Radeon HD 4650 cards on ebay...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=T0Y1D

Apparently, it was a Dell part.

Has anyone tested this card? It's a dell and I want to make sure it will work with the hacked drivers

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2011, 01:50:55 pm »
Has anyone tested this card? It's a dell and I want to make sure it will work with the hacked drivers

Sorry, I haven't tried that one, though I'd bet it should work, even if adding its PCI ID was required.

However, I just wanted to take the opportunity and advise against the HD4000 AGP models. We recently found in the italian forum that these cards are not officialy supported by AMD and trying to install the drivers is totally worthless.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2012, 07:52:47 am »
Shameless bump...but I have listed an ATI 4850 512mb DDR3 (HIS factory overclocked) in the buy/sale section.  This is a great card for the windows/groovymame+Hyperspin crowd.

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2012, 01:26:26 pm »
Shameless bump...but I have listed an ATI 4850 512mb DDR3 (HIS factory overclocked) in the buy/sale section.  This is a great card for the windows/groovymame+Hyperspin crowd.

Dammit I wish you had posted this yesterday...I just bought a crappy 4650 last night for $40 shipped on ebay just for groovymame because my onboard 6000 series won't work.  :angry:

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2012, 01:42:02 am »
Shameless bump...but I have listed an ATI 4850 512mb DDR3 (HIS factory overclocked) in the buy/sale section.  This is a great card for the windows/groovymame+Hyperspin crowd.

Dammit I wish you had posted this yesterday...I just bought a crappy 4650 last night for $40 shipped on ebay just for groovymame because my onboard 6000 series won't work.  :angry:

Sorry....the card I was waiting on finally showed up on ebay & I bought a fanless 4670 because I don't need that strong of video card for linux groovymame.  I won't tell how much I paid....but you'd say dammit again.   :banghead:

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2012, 01:16:50 pm »
Is the ATI Radeon HD 4890 still the "fastest" card for Groovymame?  I am currently using an ATI 4650 which is fine for mame, but I'd like to start getting better performance with demul, nulldc etc.  And I am wondering because no one seems to have any ATI Radeon HD 4890's in stock and it looks like its been discontinued. 

Thanks.

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Re: Best video card (Radeon HD 4890)
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2012, 05:07:22 pm »
Yes, the HD 4890 is the fastest card for GroovyMAME I'm afraid. I'd never use such a monster inside a cabinet anyway. By now, and until someone figures out a way to 'unlock' modern cards in a usable way, we're stuck to the HD 4xxx family.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi