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Author Topic: The current status of Ram Controls:  (Read 116035 times)

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saint

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #440 on: August 03, 2011, 01:48:09 pm »
Where/how does this Brett guy fit into the scam? Accomplice or victim?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=102047.msg1080341



Victim as far as I understand from reading KLOV. Had some partnership agreement to make the sit-down cabinets, got short end of stick.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #441 on: August 03, 2011, 04:48:02 pm »
Where/how does this Brett guy fit into the scam? Accomplice or victim?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=102047.msg1080341



Victim as far as I understand from reading KLOV. Had some partnership agreement to make the sit-down cabinets, got short end of stick.

Yeah, Brett is a good guy and got screwed by Ram Controls.  Definitely not part of the problem.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #442 on: August 04, 2011, 05:54:51 pm »
Just spent the afternoon reading through all 12 pages of this thread...good Lord.

Seeing Brett's work shows that the SW cabinets can be made.  Guessing they each take a long time to do though.

Since he's not part of RAM Controls, I wonder if someone else would want to pick up that project...

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #443 on: August 05, 2011, 10:00:45 am »
Just spent the afternoon reading through all 12 pages of this thread...good Lord.

Seeing Brett's work shows that the SW cabinets can be made.  Guessing they each take a long time to do though.

Since he's not part of RAM Controls, I wonder if someone else would want to pick up that project...

 :applaud:

I would say the biggest problem to that would be a source for color XY monitors...

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #444 on: August 05, 2011, 11:21:38 am »
Just spent the afternoon reading through all 12 pages of this thread...good Lord.

Seeing Brett's work shows that the SW cabinets can be made.  Guessing they each take a long time to do though.

Since he's not part of RAM Controls, I wonder if someone else would want to pick up that project...

 :applaud:

I would say the biggest problem to that would be a source for color XY monitors...

Meh, just re-wind the yoke and have someone repo new HV boards:
http://www.jrok.com/xfer/xystuff/

(:

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #445 on: August 05, 2011, 03:30:29 pm »
These guys make vector to vga convertors. Just use a new LCD.
http://www.teamist.com/vectorvga.html

NO MORE!!

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #446 on: August 05, 2011, 03:33:55 pm »
These guys make vector to vga convertors. Just use a new LCD.
http://www.teamist.com/vectorvga.html



I would think that you would know that's hardly the same...

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #447 on: August 06, 2011, 02:53:16 pm »
These guys make vector to vga convertors. Just use a new LCD.
http://www.teamist.com/vectorvga.html
I would think that you would know that's hardly the same...
I wouldn't bet on there ever being a repro of a real one. Not enough demand.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #448 on: August 08, 2011, 01:49:40 am »
Quote
I wouldn't bet on there ever being a repro of a real one. Not enough demand.

 I dont know about that.

 There are hundreds of thousands of vector games out there in the wild.  Even if the game has been gutted.. people who love the things could easily pick up a new vector monitor and power it by a vector-mame equivalent.

 The sales to people to make their own dedicated Tempest alone would probably be quite numerous.  Starwars is also a huge draw. 

 There simply is nothing like a true vector monitor... except possibly a laser projector.   However, from what I understand, is that a good 3 color laser projector is mega expensive.  Much more so than a typical vector monitor.  They are not as fast and fluid as a VM either.  (a lot more flicker)

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #449 on: August 08, 2011, 10:07:58 am »
Quote
I wouldn't bet on there ever being a repro of a real one. Not enough demand.

 I dont know about that.

 There are hundreds of thousands of vector games out there in the wild.  Even if the game has been gutted.. people who love the things could easily pick up a new vector monitor and power it by a vector-mame equivalent.

 The sales to people to make their own dedicated Tempest alone would probably be quite numerous.  Starwars is also a huge draw. 

 There simply is nothing like a true vector monitor... except possibly a laser projector.   However, from what I understand, is that a good 3 color laser projector is mega expensive.  Much more so than a typical vector monitor.  They are not as fast and fluid as a VM either.  (a lot more flicker)

Let me see, do I consider the opinion of Ray, who has owned classic machines and actually sold me the oldest machine in my collection (older than my vectors).

Or do I believe Xiaou2, who has apparently never actually owned a vector.

There simply aren't hundreds of thousands of vector games out in the wild.  A simple look at the build numbers for the games in question, coupled with the number of G08 fires,  would put that silly notion to rest.

VectorVGA has been around for a long time ... hasn't really rung any bells as yet.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #450 on: August 08, 2011, 10:25:18 am »
Cheffo, the unwitting troll...  Ohh yes, I DO in fact own a Vector game.  Asteroids Delxue to be exact.

And in fact, currently, I also have a Sega Turbo, Spy Hunter, Black Knight 2000, Williams Indiana Jones pinball, Willaims Fire pinball.  Sold off the TX-1, and the Ice Cold Beer, and a non-working outrun cause I got sick of getting bad boards labeled as good off of ebay.

 Vectors were Huge in the 80s.  Almost every arcade in the world had at least one, if not several.


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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #451 on: August 08, 2011, 10:58:16 am »
Almost every arcade in the world had at least one, if not several.



Even so, that does not equal "hundreds of thousands of vector games out there in the wild." Being incredibly generous and exaggatory, Lets say there were, oh, 15,000 arcades out the world in the early 80's. And if each of those arcades averaged 5 vector games. That would still equal only 75 thousand vector games. Not to mention the real numbers do not even come close.

Then you take the absolute decimation of cabinets since that time and you would cut even my silly exaggerated numbers down to a third of that.

Your math is bogus, calling Cheffo a troll doesn't change that fact.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #452 on: August 08, 2011, 12:17:33 pm »
Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- is Xiaou ruining another thread!?! I dont believe it!?! (Im labeling my posts with the appropriate tags now. This is obviously sarcasm.)

To say that there are hundreds of thousands of vector games out there is utterly ridiculous. Vigo was being nice when he mentioned those numbers. You are deranged if you think that. Cheffo isnt a troll, he is just putting you in your place, but you refuse to go there. Every. Single. Time.  ::)
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #453 on: August 08, 2011, 12:24:57 pm »
And in fact, currently, I also have a Sega Turbo, Spy Hunter, Black Knight 2000, Williams Indiana Jones pinball, Willaims Fire pinball.  Sold off the TX-1, and the Ice Cold Beer, and a non-working outrun cause I got sick of getting bad boards labeled as good off of ebay.

Those aren't vectors /pun. Hundreds of thousands in the wild? citation needed.

http://www.brentradio.com/ProductionNumbers.htm
Asteroids 47,840
Asteroids(cocktail) 8725
Asteroids (factory Lunar Lander conversion) 200
Asteroids Deluxe 18142
Asteriods Deluxe (cabaret) 1005
Asteroids Deluxe (cocktail) 3252
Battlezone 13022
Battlezone (cabaret) 2000
Red Baron 1500
Red Baron (cockpit) 504
Star Wars (cockpit) 2450
Star Wars (upright) 10245
Tempest (cabaret) 2176
Tempest (cocktail) 1663
Tempest 25112
War of the Worlds 10


That's about 135,000 but doesn't include every vector game, I cant find numbers on games like Omega Race. But it does include the most popular ones. I doubt its an additional 65,000 and even if it did, we'd have to assume every single vector ever made still works and none were destoryed, scrapped, broken, and or lit on fire/left in a barn.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #454 on: August 08, 2011, 12:37:55 pm »
I have one of the 13022 Battlezones...   ;D

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #455 on: August 08, 2011, 01:05:39 pm »
Quote
I wouldn't bet on there ever being a repro of a real one. Not enough demand.

 I dont know about that.

 There are hundreds of thousands of vector games out there in the wild.  

Huh?  Hundreds of thousands?  Orly?

...and then take in to consideration that different manufacturers X/Y monitors don't work with each other (for the most part)... and you can see... it would be a huge losing proposition to "manufacture" new X/Y monitors.  I also think it runs counter to current law as I think CRT monitors under a certain size are now illegal to manufacture in the U.S.


« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 01:09:50 pm by FrizzleFried »
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #456 on: August 08, 2011, 01:07:42 pm »
Space Duel Upright : 11,017
Space Duel Cocktail : 1,019
Black Widow Upright : 1,550
Gravitar : 5,427
Quantum: ~500
Major Havoc dedicated: ~500 to ~600

There is another 20,000 for you.




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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #457 on: August 08, 2011, 01:20:21 pm »
Then there are these:

Space Fury
Star Trek Upright
Star TrekCaptains Chair
Eliminator Upright
Eliminator Cocktail
Eliminator 4-player
Tac/Scan
Zektor

And these:

Armor Attack
Aztarac
Barrier
Cosmic Chasm
Demon
Earth Friend
QB-3
Rip Off
Solar Quest
Space Wars
Speed Freak
Star Castle
StarHawk
Sundance
Tail Gunner
The War of the Worlds
Warrior

So, there probably are hundreds of thousands.

Just Sayin.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #458 on: August 08, 2011, 02:24:21 pm »
Then there are these:

Space Fury
Star Trek Upright
Star TrekCaptains Chair
Eliminator Upright
Eliminator Cocktail
Eliminator 4-player
Tac/Scan
Zektor

And these:

Armor Attack
Aztarac
Barrier
Cosmic Chasm
Demon
Earth Friend
QB-3
Rip Off
Solar Quest
Space Wars
Speed Freak
Star Castle
StarHawk
Sundance
Tail Gunner
The War of the Worlds
Warrior

So, there probably are hundreds of thousands.

Just Sayin.


Even with them all... and every one working... I'd be surprised if the number hit 200K which would be the point where it becomes "hundreds" of thousands.

... and what would you'r best guess be as to the percentage of Vector games still in operation?   Maybe 20% of the total number... maybe?  If that... and then there is the thing about the incompatibility between the different manufacturers... between color/b&w... etc... etc... etc...
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #459 on: August 08, 2011, 02:35:07 pm »

Even with them all... and every one working... I'd be surprised if the number hit 200K which would be the point where it becomes "hundreds" of thousands.

... and what would you'r best guess be as to the percentage of Vector games still in operation?   Maybe 20% of the total number... maybe?  If that... and then there is the thing about the incompatibility between the different manufacturers... between color/b&w... etc... etc... etc...


Probably less than 20%. I would say that the above titles would possibly add 30000 to the total number of vectors. With Star Castle at 14,000 and Space Wars at 10,000 confirmed and an additional 20,000 that possibly sold. (how exactly does that happen anyway).

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #460 on: August 08, 2011, 02:49:21 pm »
I also think it runs counter to current law as I think CRT monitors under a certain size are now illegal to manufacture in the U.S.

Wot?  Source??

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #461 on: August 08, 2011, 02:52:53 pm »
Yikes. All I am saying is the probability of anyone going through the trouble of making such a repro (even though it did come very close to happening some years ago) is very very low due to the complexities of making it and then recouping the investment. We're talking about large, heavy and to some extent fragile devices that will be expensive if run in low numbers; Expensive to ship to customers; Expensive to provide customer support. New CRT tubes are rare now and have to be imported from asia.

Anyone doing such a repro project would have to be rich and ready to lose money on the effort. Maybe this hobby has such a person, but I doubt it.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #462 on: August 08, 2011, 03:14:14 pm »
I also think it runs counter to current law as I think CRT monitors under a certain size are now illegal to manufacture in the U.S.

Wot?  Source??

A quick google search found nothing but I put about 5 minutes in to it.  2-3 years ago W/G and others stopped manufacturing CRT monitors and I had read the reason was because regulations forbid CRT monitors under a certain size (25" I think it may be) from being manufactured in the states.  That is why all new 19" CRT's you get these days are from Korea, etc...

Perhaps Ken Layton or someone else more familiar will chime in.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #463 on: August 08, 2011, 03:22:58 pm »
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/showthread.php/1073-My-homemade-laser-show-X-Y-scanner-%28pictures%29

This is probably the closest to the original method of display that you'll be able to get, for vector monitor replacement. The prices for Red/Blue/Green laser diodes are dropping.. Someone could probably spec out a standard list of parts and sell it as a kit and generate output for it directly from mame (create the XY output as three discreet stereo waveforms (one pair per color) using something like a USB soundcard (there are USB soundcards that have 6 channel output for under $25)).

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #464 on: August 08, 2011, 03:51:03 pm »
I also think it runs counter to current law as I think CRT monitors under a certain size are now illegal to manufacture in the U.S.

Wot?  Source??

I think that Frizz may actually be referring to the 25" limitation that worked the other way ... hence the emergence of the 24.8" CRT monitor.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #465 on: August 08, 2011, 03:57:44 pm »
Even with them all... and every one working... I'd be surprised if the number hit 200K which would be the point where it becomes "hundreds" of thousands.

... and what would you'r best guess be as to the percentage of Vector games still in operation?   Maybe 20% of the total number... maybe?  If that... and then there is the thing about the incompatibility between the different manufacturers... between color/b&w... etc... etc... etc...

Exactly right ...

I have no doubt that there were hundreds of thousands of vector games on location.

If I choose my personal experience as a barometer (and I am willing to bet that I have seen more live vector cabs than most), then we are looking at less than a 10% survival rate.

Subtract from that the folks who wouldn't go for the VectorVGA (which is most, since Vector VGA has been around for years) and you end up with a number that is pretty damned small.

Not a new product and, while Xiaou2 may think otherwise, the market ended up being smaller than even the creator expected.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #466 on: August 08, 2011, 04:08:24 pm »
calling Cheffo a troll doesn't change that fact.

But it is entertaining ...  ;D
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #467 on: August 08, 2011, 04:12:33 pm »
Anyone doing such a repro project would have to want to be rich and ready to scam anybody on the effort. This hobby already has one of those and this thread is about him.

Fixt that for you
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #468 on: August 08, 2011, 04:52:11 pm »
Anyone doing such a repro project would have to want to be rich and ready to scam anybody on the effort. This hobby already has one of those and this thread is about him.

Fixt that for you

That was my first thought.  Anyone heard from Dan/Jim/Errol lately? They have been mighty quiet here and on KLOV.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #469 on: August 08, 2011, 05:20:26 pm »
I suspect he/they are still lurking, but probably not logged in.  They must be trying to figure out their next move.   :dizzy:

I did think it was interesting that Dan outed himself like that on the KLOV thread though.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #470 on: August 08, 2011, 09:20:08 pm »
So as, said, a LOT of vector games were made.  How many are still operational, and salvageable?  Who knows.   It seems that driver boards tended to fail more than the actual monitors themselves.

 Vectormame has been in existence for some time.  However, the biggest problems besides getting the funds together... was the fact that the Zector hardware needed to power the monitors was ran in limited runs few and far between.  Couple that with the idea of trying to pick up a used vector CRT in unknown and not so easily (if not impossible) for most to test (without the zektor available).. means poor acceptance / sales.

 And thats not even counting the fact that the software itself was not updated.


 And of course, then you have to consider that even if "X" amount of vectors were produced... does not mean that many More people would want their own.  If 1 Vector arcade machine was played by 500 individual people in the area, and only 2 of those previous players wanted to make their own replica cabinet today.. that could theoretically produce over 200,000 vector devices. (considering every vector game having the same level of interest)

 Realistically?  Not sure.  But there are a lot of classic fans, as well as collectors, who just cant accept the dismal results of a typical pc monitor.

 Didnt know about the MFG size changes, however, almost anything you want to actually make money on today has to be MFG in another country.  Especially if it has any level of complexity.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #471 on: August 08, 2011, 09:27:02 pm »
Vectormame has been in existence for some time. 

Man, it would suck to confuse VectorVGA and VectorMAME ...  ::)
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #472 on: August 09, 2011, 01:38:18 pm »
Vectormame has been in existence for some time. 

Man, it would suck to confuse VectorVGA and VectorMAME ...  ::)

 :lol
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #473 on: August 09, 2011, 07:20:37 pm »
Baby step... baby steps... little tiny baby steps... thats right... now big steps... 1... 2... 3... 4!

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #474 on: August 10, 2011, 05:41:34 am »
Baby step... baby steps... little tiny baby steps... thats right... now big steps... 1... 2... 3... 4!


great, now all I'm going to hear all day is dj lance telling me how awesome everything is.

talking about ram controls with my friends .... is... AWESOME...

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #475 on: August 10, 2011, 12:23:39 pm »
Meh, just re-wind the yoke and have someone repo new HV boards:
http://www.jrok.com/xfer/xystuff/

(:


That's just crazy talk!

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #476 on: August 10, 2011, 04:16:44 pm »
Meh, just re-wind the yoke and have someone repo new HV boards:
http://www.jrok.com/xfer/xystuff/

(:


That's just crazy talk!

no dude, that's the FUTURE!

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #477 on: August 11, 2011, 02:14:21 am »
Baby step... baby steps... little tiny baby steps... thats right... now big steps... 1... 2... 3... 4!


great, now all I'm going to hear all day is dj lance telling me how awesome everything is.

talking about ram controls with my friends .... is... AWESOME...


Wow, you guys are just hitting me where I'm currently living. Those songs haunt my nightmares.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #478 on: August 11, 2011, 05:19:03 pm »
 :laugh2:

Oh yeah...

There's a party in my tummy... so yummy! so yummy!


Hahaha... at least it's not "I love you... you love me!"

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #479 on: August 11, 2011, 05:21:35 pm »
I have a feeling I'm very glad I have no clue what you guys are rambling on about atm.   :cheers: