The current status of Ram Controls:

[leapinlew]

EDIT: But then you're back to the whole "supporting a company who screwed the community" thing we've been discussing this whole thread.

I agree with you however, I don't think there is much that can be done about this Friz. People still buy gas from BP, people still buy music discs from Sony, etc. etc. What you want is some united front of arcade builders/users who will stand up to Dan/Dave until he makes everything right. You might as well try to train an army of cats.

[scofthe7seas]

We technically have no reason to distrust a person who has been proven to be different from the one that robbed you.

FYI:  Dave has previously appeared on the forums as "the new guy at Ram Controls", closed off a couple minor past orders, and then took in many new orders that he never fulfilled.  At first it looked just like Dan looks now.  I'm not saying Dan is really Dave, or Dan is anything other than what he says he is, but we have a legit reason to be skeptical.  We're all in "wait and see" mode for a reason.  We've been in this place before.

Having said that, if Steph says that Dan is not Dave, that is good enough for me.

People have spoken to both individuals and have confirmed that they are not the same person. Having stated that, I am  not going to say it is impossible for him to be a partner of Dave’s (though I don’t believe it at all.) I mean, come on, if Cheffo isn’t vehemently against something that has to be a sign! He’s one of the first to shoot down some BS with a fifty caliber machine gun and he actually seems to be pretty neutral on the subject, and honestly, that impresses me.
Also, Chad; aren’t you actually already receiving something from Dan? Has it arrived yet?
I'm not pointing this whole post at you, Chad. You actually seem one of the lesser skeptics. We should wait and see, but if I needed something he sells I would be willing to test the waters a bit based on what I’ve seen and I'm a tightwad.
As I said before, if there WERE some kind of partnership with Dave, I don’t think it would be going like this. The gig would be up INSTANTLY if something seemed legitimately suspicious. How far did Dave get with his last scheme? This level of distrust isn’t going to go away in volume for a while and I think even down the line people are going to complain instantly if ANYTHING goes awry. It really wouldn’t be worth it to be a scheme of some kind. Unless Dan/Dave is a super idiot and thinks he’s got mad-crazy sheep wool pulling skills. This wool is woven pretty tight this time around. (Again, no hotdog/trampoline..) I just don’t think another person is going to buy into a stupid scheme like that.
As for him going to KLOV, I still don’t think he should do this yet. His ass is red raw even coming here and has spent a significant amount of time trying to help and defend himself. It’s going to be worse there, and he will have to balance defending himself in both places, stretching himself even thinner. I wouldn’t go there until some significant event of trust is established here.

[CheffoJeffo]

I mean, come on, if Cheffo isn’t vehemently against something that has to be a sign! He’s one of the first to shoot down some BS with a fifty caliber machine gun and he actually seems to be pretty neutral on the subject, and honestly, that impresses me.

Make no mistake -- I'm vehemently against all of you -- just ask Xiaou2!

 

[ChadTower]

The gig would be up INSTANTLY if something seemed legitimately suspicious.

This whole crowd looks suspicious.  It's all dudes in here except for these bitches.

[dan_ram]

Two more packages going out today..

One for a recent order and one for someone owed. I am making progress..

Dan

[Donkey_Kong]

Or, uh, you just pay him with a credit card and zap with a chargeback if you don't have your parts in 10 business days?

 

You make it sound so easy. I've never had to do that. Is that difficult to do? Is any one credit card easier than the others?

What about using paypal vs regular credit card?

[bheineck]

You've never had to file a chargeback but you're dispensing purchasing advice?  
Dude.  Seriously.

Hmmmmmm......Who do I trust more with buying advice. The one who had good enough buying sense to not have to process a charge back or the one who has had to? Now let me think.     On the flip side I do know who to go to for processing a chargeback advice. 

[Vigo]

You've never had to file a chargeback but you're dispensing purchasing advice? 
Dude.  Seriously.

Hmmmmmm......Who do I trust more with buying advice. The one who had good enough buying sense to not have to process a charge back or the one who has had to? Now let me think.     On the flip side I do know who to go to for processing a chargeback advice. 

Hey, I have enough buying sense to never have had to process a chargeback. My financial advice: Invest everything in flamingo shoes.

[bheineck]

Hey, I have enough buying sense to never have had to process a chargeback. My financial advice: Invest everything in flamingo shoes.

  Buying advice not investing advice. They are related, but quite different in my eyes. I only trust myself for investing advice. 

[Vigo]

Hey, I have enough buying sense to never have had to process a chargeback. My financial advice: Invest everything in flamingo shoes.

  Buying advice not investing advice. They are related, but quite different in my eyes. I only trust myself for investing advice. 

Yep, I know. My point was just to trust yourself first and foremost on all matters financial. 

[tbombaci]

Two more packages going out today..

One for a recent order and one for someone owed. I am making progress..

Dan

LOL

[bheineck]

LOL

Dude that's a big one! Free Willy!!!

[WareWolF]

My item came today.  Thanks Dan.

[ChadTower]

FWIW, Dan and I have been emailing back and forth today, and I will let everybody know if a completed settlement happens.  That won't address everybody but it would be a positive report in this ugly situation.

I received my parts today.  Dan even put in an extra part that's much better than a Bob Roberts moonpie.  The parts are of typical Ram Controls quality.  They are actually overengineered.   

I know this doesn't address everybody but it is one more positive report of Dan's actions.  It also means Ram Controls now only owes me $5 so I have a lot less reason to complain in these threads.   

[JustMichael]

It also means Ram Controls now only owes me $5 so I have a lot less reason to complain in these threads.   

  Whether its $5 or $5,000, I cannot in good faith deal with a "company" like Ram Controls that has so blatantly ripped off the community.  Perhaps once the community receives a full refund then I can order a star wars yoke but not before.  IMHO Dave should spend some quality time in prison to help teach him right from wrong...

[Crazy Cooter]

Whether its $5 or $5,000, I cannot in good faith deal with a "company" like Ram Controls that has so blatantly ripped off the community.  Perhaps once the community receives a full refund then I can order a star wars yoke but not before.

I'm on this train.  I've been waiting for quite some time to order and will continue to sit on the sidelines.

As a comment to the new ownership, there is nothing to save in the brand name 'Ram Controls'.  For the next 10+ years any internet search will continue to bring up threads filled with bad press and will result in less sales (if the  plan is to continue this business).  My advice would be to square things up with people and then change the sign outside.

[Gray_Area]

So BP should give something to every living thing on the planet?  Wow, that would be generous.

They could, as well as make themselves uber kings, by coming out with some kind of Tesla-like energy generator.

You might as well try to train an army of cats.

I remember a story of a few years ago where an old guy's cat dialed 911 for him when he collapsed.


This thread is a classic, "These are the Days of Our Lives"....

[Malenko]

It also means Ram Controls now only owes me $5 so I have a lot less reason to complain in these threads.  

Whats your paypal? $5 to get you to shut the ---fudgesicle--- up is a sound investment.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

They could, as well as make themselves uber kings, by coming out with some kind of Tesla-like energy generator.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tesla as much as the next geek, but I don't think the Wardenclyffe could really scale out without getting dangerous (:

[leapinlew]

It also means Ram Controls now only owes me $5 so I have a lot less reason to complain in these threads.   

  Whether its $5 or $5,000, I cannot in good faith deal with a "company" like Ram Controls that has so blatantly ripped off the community.  Perhaps once the community receives a full refund then I can order a star wars yoke but not before.  IMHO Dave should spend some quality time in prison to help teach him right from wrong...

If you're all bent up over $5 go buy your star wars yoke from the competition.

What else is owed to you Chad? 

[ChadTower]

What else is owed to you Chad?  

Just the $5.  Dan offered me a settlement amount of credit and I accepted it.  I couldn't come to the exact total with parts I needed so I came up $5 short and said just leave it as store credit.  I'm good with that.

Now that I think about it, though, he did put an extra of one part in there, and that is worth more than the $5.  I hadn't connected the two until just now.  Either way I consider myself settled with Ram Controls.  Dan did the right thing by me.  I'm hoping this continues with more outstanding customers.

[leapinlew]

Well, there you go JustMichael. You can continue to be mad at the company if you want. People are getting their orders. What else do you want?

You still mad at Microsoft for Windows ME or Windows Vista? You done using Windows I presume? Hows that Mac or Linux computer working out for you? 

[Vigo]

Well, there you go JustMichael. You can continue to be mad at the company if you want. People are getting their orders. What else do you want?

I think he wants all debts to be settled before trusting ram controls again.  I mean, let's be honest here. If it was only chad who was out a lot of money, there would be no community outrage. 

[leapinlew]

Well, there you go JustMichael. You can continue to be mad at the company if you want. People are getting their orders. What else do you want?

I think he wants all debts to be settled before trusting ram controls again.  I mean, let's be honest here. If it was only chad who was out a lot of money, there would be no community outrage. 

True, but Chad left the $5 out there to be interpreted. People are saying how Dan should start a new company, but how would that work? Selling arcade controls isn't such a huge market that his new company wouldn't have a new pool of buyers. He would have the same problems he's having now. Probably more.

If Slikstik came back under a new name and new ownership there would STILL be an outrage and demand that the new company make good on all it's old debts. His only choice is to bring Ram Controls back online.

[Vigo]

I think with the current situation, you are right. Window dressing ram controls with a new name will not get far around here. Dan took on the entire company and all it's problems with it. He is stuck with a company with a bad name until he is done getting through all the crap that was left there for him. It probably would be good to change the name after cleaning up this mess though.

Maybe Dan should have just settled for taking the inventory and product designs and left the festering mess of a company for Dave to keep to himself. I think Dan would have a lot easier time selling the goods around here if people knew he was entirely separate from ram controls. Ah well, hindsight is 20/20 and it seems Dan didn't know the scope of the mess when stepping into it. Also, it seems like people here are starting to get their goods without having to resort to legal action or a court claims process. So it does seem that Dan's burden is our benefit here.

[scofthe7seas]

Maybe Dan should have just settled for taking the inventory and product designs and left the festering mess of a company for Dave to keep to himself. I think Dan would have a lot easier time selling the goods around here if people knew he was entirely separate from ram controls. Ah well, hindsight is 20/20 and it seems Dan didn't know the scope of the mess when stepping into it. Also, it seems like people here are starting to get their goods without having to resort to legal action or a court claims process. So it does seem that Dan's burden is our benefit here.

I'm starting to get on this bandwagon myself. If doing the right thing gets you shat on by tons and tons of people, then why do it? Why accept responsibility when so many people would rather him just go private and not pay back anybody owed? That actually seems to be the general consensus, at least among what seems like quite a lot of people. Maybe it's not a lot of people, just a set amount of folks pooping their non-logic out. For what? I sincerely hope anybody reading this thread can wrap their brains around the situation instead of making opinions based on emotions and not thinking. Really, I do.
I'm getting so annoyed of people saying he has to pay back everybody before doing anything. This is one of the stupidest things.
Dan = NOT DAVE
He doesn't owe anybody ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, yet he's trying to make amends specifically to save the brand name, any future of selling the products ram controls offers, and doing what’s right by people who are actually out money. He’s doing it LITERALLY the only way possible. And so many of you think he should just open the floodgates and pay evvvvverybody back for someone else’s debt, leaving him ---smurfing--- destitute because petulant babies who aren't even owed anything can feel a sense of justice. Make your own thread titled “Ram controls ripped off somebody who’s not me, but I’m mad about it”
This is awesome, leapinlew:

If Slikstik came back under a new name and new ownership there would STILL be an outrage and demand that the new company make good on all it's old debts. His only choice is to bring Ram Controls back online.
 

Really, if a “new” store came out run by “Kris” selling the “slipperystick ternado spinner” I’m so sure nobody would suspect anything.

*edited for misquote

[FrizzleFried]

Well, there you go JustMichael. You can continue to be mad at the company if you want. People are getting their orders. What else do you want?

You still mad at Microsoft for Windows ME or Windows Vista? You done using Windows I presume? Hows that Mac or Linux computer working out for you? 

When Microsoft blatantly steals thousands of dollars from you for a product that doesn't exist at all (not even half-assed versions)... then you can compare the two.

You disappoint me Lew.  You've been around long enough to have seen this ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- pulled 3 or 4 different times...

[ark_ader]

What is wrong with using escrow?

If you have enough people wanting the same device, costing $200 or more, just put it all in escrow.

[leapinlew]

Well, there you go JustMichael. You can continue to be mad at the company if you want. People are getting their orders. What else do you want?

You still mad at Microsoft for Windows ME or Windows Vista? You done using Windows I presume? Hows that Mac or Linux computer working out for you? 

When Microsoft blatantly steals thousands of dollars from you for a product that doesn't exist at all (not even half-assed versions)... then you can compare the two.

You disappoint me Lew.  You've been around long enough to have seen this ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- pulled 3 or 4 different times...

heres what I see:
Dan comes forward and says he will try to make good on peoples orders
The people at BYOAC who was owed something, is getting their orders
Meanwhile Dan is here getting his butt handed to him... and for what?
Lots of people crying for blood.

I'm not vouching for Dan or saying you should place an order with him without taking some precautions. But it SEEMS like he is responding to previous orders as best is possible.

If I was in the market for a star wars yoke... I'd probably place an order with Dan and take the precautions I listed earlier in this thread.  

[wp34]

If I was in the market for a star wars yoke... I'd probably place an order with Dan and take the precautions I listed earlier in this thread.  

+1

It seems like Dan is making progress towards restitution.  An all out boycott at this points seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.  If we start to hear new reports of shenanigans well then I'll change my tune.  Until then I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt or nobody will get anything they are due.

[RayB]

For the next 10+ years any internet search will continue to bring up threads filled with bad press and will result in less sales (if the  plan is to continue this business).  My advice would be to square things up with people and then change the sign outside.

This

(how come I'm the only one who wants to see his Ebay Power Seller feedback?)

[FrizzleFried]

EDIT:

[scofthe7seas]

[... I think Dan buying RAM is a bunch of hogwash.  If Dan truly was interested in recouping his "investment" he'd have taken the stock ONLY... and not the name... the name is tainted and a liability at this point and why would anyone who is owed money from someone take on a tainted liability when it's not "required"?   Answer: No one.  Conclusion:  Dave still owns RAM and Dan is just doing his best to save Dave's skin..

As I and others have stated, if Dan had taken only the stock and ditched all the rest, he would literally have no need or reason to pay back anybody. Is this something the community really wants? Most of the alternatives that are being suggested actually harm the community more than help. People are getting back what they are owed, and it might be a slow process but it is happening, and it’s happening the only way it could happen.
Again, if Ram Controls equipment was being sold under a different banner, would this really raise no suspicion? Seriously, if he did get the stock and change the name people would be out-right certain that it is Dave under a new name, and they’d be 10 times more angry because he wouldn’t be owning up or paying back anybody. He’d be in this boat, but with more holes in it. Even if he did that, and came out and told the truth, “I got all of Ram stock, and am now selling it under the name “Dan Controls”” This would be disastrous. Answer truthfully; would you, we, not decry this action? Would “Dan Controls” really be accepted and not slandered?
I 100% agree that people should be paid back. People who were harmed deserve restitution. Absolutely. That this is happening is great. But paying back everybody all at once without any income is economically impossible. The company name is tainted, but what is a company if not its employees and stock? It’s just a name. If he did change the name, he would be under heavy suspicion, and nobody would get anything. I am 100% for people getting what they are owed, but we need to be reasonable about it.
I agree about the ebay powerseller name. Honestly, I don’t think that’s a thing that’s going to happen. Divulge what you want from that; I don’t like it myself. But until he’s proven to be / be with Dave, we shouldn’t rally against him so much.
Honestly, if he does start dealing in an unsavory manner, get the lynch mob. I will be in the front with my pitchfork because I would be one of the biggest fools for defending the ass. Let’s just give it a chance.

[bheineck]

(how come I'm the only one who wants to see his Ebay Power Seller feedback?)

You are not alone in that. That would be helpful. Dan?

[leapinlew]

EDIT:

So let me make sure I got your side of the story right. We should shun RAM controls even though people are getting their orders? We should be just as vicious as you are until EVERY LAST CENT (as you put it) is repaid. And then what? Then all of a sudden RAM is ok? How are you going to verify every last penny has been repaid?

I think your mixing up your real identity with an alter ego who's job it is to protect arcade enthusiasts. Thanks for protecting us SuperArcade Man


Let me know when it's safe to order!

And for the record: I'm not saying it's safe to order from RAM. I'm saying order with caution. The company has a bad track record.

[rikitiki]

I think Dan is nothing more than hired PR.
like a crooked politician or declining movie star that screws up in the public eye
they'll hire a team to reconstruct and handle PR to put them in a new shinning light.
and I think Dan knows alot more than hes letting on.


LMAO


and from the sounds of some of these posts it seems to be working 
But when I start seeing people on the cockpit list or even the LL/MC Control Panel list...
Sorry but the BYOC really needs to get out more

[FrizzleFried]

So let me make sure I got your side of the story right. We should shun RAM controls even though people are getting their orders? We should be just as vicious as you are until EVERY LAST CENT (as you put it) is repaid. And then what? Then all of a sudden RAM is ok? How are you going to verify every last penny has been repaid?

I think your mixing up your real identity with an alter ego who's job it is to protect arcade enthusiasts. Thanks for protecting us SuperArcade Man

Let me know when it's safe to order!

And for the record: I'm not saying it's safe to order from RAM. I'm saying order with caution. The company has a bad track record.

How long have you been here Lew?  How many times have you seen RAM pull this SAME ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---?  

Don't you feel somewhat obligated to point out the history of this company Lew?   Wouldn't you feel even a little bad if someone contacted you in 6 months and said "Lew,  based on a post of yours it pushed me over the edge and I decided to spend $X with RAM and got screwed"?

Will I know when ALL people have been paid off?  Nope... but I am sure I'll get wind of when some of the cockpit victims get restitution... that's when I'd be convinced that "whoever" is running RAM is serious about getting people paid... not until then.

The fact that Dave/RAM fraudulently ADVERTISED, SOLD and COLLECTED MONEY for a phantom product (SW Cockpit) appalls me...

...and the fact that he LIED to more than one person stating "It's READY TO SHIP" to get MORE MONEY from these folks... well,  I'll leave it at that.

If you folks want to do business with a company that would pull that kind of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---... so be it.  I for one WILL NOT. 

PS: I've still not seen a shred of evidence that Dave's still not running the show.

[GibsonRiddler]

Thread of rikitiki on coinopspace

http://www.coinopspace.com/forum/topic/show?id=2467396%3ATopic%3A147400

Post By Joaquim D states he went to Dan's to get the yoke control in person.

[Vigo]

You guys could easily be right, Dan could be a PR guy, friend or Employee doing a crooked stunt of Dave's.. A lot of things don't quite add up, and this being a stunt is always a possibility. Who really knows though.  

I don't think anyone should jump down Dan's throat based on an assumption like that, though. Mostly because isn't really productive. Dave wasn't about to fulfill any orders a month ago, now at least we are seeing a spark of something. I don't know if it is legit or a stunt, but I think a much more productive use of this anger is to find out what Dan's plan is for resolving this mess and if it is a reasonable plan, holding him to it. If this is a scam, then we are doing exactly what Dave wants; being too busy bickering to notice whether or not they are doing their job. A little maturity on our end might make a difference here, so let's put the ball in Dan's court and give him a chance to tell us his plan and prove himself.

If he has accountants and advisors helping him put together this plan, then the plan will follow a schedule. I think it also goes without saying that the customers have a right to know what that schedule is on when they will be paid back or supplied with their goods. So why don't we:

1) Hear out Dan's Plan and verify that it would in some way settle everybody's debts.
2) Assuming the plan and the schedule are reasonable, give Dan the benefit of the doubt, be respectful and lets try to make things work. Try to meet him half way and be fair. Agree to support him just as any other seller in the community once the debt is resolved.
3) If he fails to follow through, we should all agree to hold his feet to the fire as hard as we can. Take any and all action necessary to keep scam controls from screwing anyone in the community again.

[rbarr110]

If you folks want to do business with a company that would pull that kind of ---That which is odoriferous and causeth plants to grow---... so be it.  

ALL OF WHAT I SAY BELOW IS PREDICATED ON THE PRESUMPTION THAT DAVE IS NO LONGER A PART OF RAM CONTROLS

I have been here for several years...not necessarily an incredibly active member, but well aware of the RAM Controls announcement of a yoke in progress with pre-orders being taken.  I was incredibly disappointed when the whole thing went down hill after the yokes had been completed and alot of people never received a prepaid yoke.

But it is statements like the one quoted above that I find ridiculous.

It baffles me that people cannot differentiate that a company name is not necessarily the same old company when someone new takes it over.  

For example my father, now retired, owned and ran a business for 25+ years.  Wanting to retire, he sold the company and its assets to new ownership.  The new owner completely changed the way the business ran...in my opinion, the new management took it downhill...but the business has the same name but is being managed completely different, the original owner having ZERO involvement.  Did my father drive the business downhill??? No, he isn’t the business, and neither is DAN necessarily the old “Ram Controls”.

So now we have a company, that had been piss poorly managed, essentially taken over by a new person, that on initial appearances, is making things right, yet people can not differentiate the two.

DAN technically owes nothing to anyone, the issue is with DAVE and not Ram Controls.  I, however, am choosing to wait things out a bit longer before making a purchase.  I can completely agree with choosing not to do business with Ram Controls because of the past, but trying to be a moralistic, elitist ass, pointing fingers at those that choose to do business with DAN is ridiculous because it is not the same as purchasing from DAVE.

If you are owed something from DAVE, hopefully DAN is making good on it now, and that appears to be happening.  I for one am reserving my judgement on DAN and the new Ram Controls….as far as DAVE is concerned, string him up.

Writing all this wont change the minds of those that are so vehemently and angrily arguing their point that doing business with DAN is wrong, but hopefully will add a more level headed perspective to those that don’t necessarily know the history.

If you choose to buy, "buyer beware", there is a shady past to the name "Ram Controls", that is all that really needs to be said by anyone.  

Hopefully it is true that DAN is taking care of things the way they should have been done in the first place.