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Future feature of classic Emulators
Malenko:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on May 26, 2011, 04:39:18 am ---The problem is that when an artists makes something that has texture on it.. such as a Rock... the filter doesnt know that. Its just smooths everything.. .and so it looks really awful on a lot of the games
--- End quote ---
I take it you didnt bother to click the link or read?
--- Quote ---Two researchers -- Johannes Kopf from Microsoft, and Dani Lischinski from The Hebrew University -- have successfully created an algorithm that depixelizes and upscales low-resolution 8-bit "pixel art" into lush vector graphics.
--- End quote ---
RayB:
It does seem to over-do it. I'd be curious about what results looking like when the smoothing is at 50% (assuming an image like the one below is 100%):
You'll notice Xiau2, that in the above, the algorithm knew to smooth together the blue shading, while the black outlines are retained as outlines. I'd imagine a rock texture would end up all smoothed out. (I'm not saying it's better; just saying that's what it would do).
Xiaou2:
--- Quote from: Malenko on May 26, 2011, 04:51:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on May 26, 2011, 04:39:18 am ---The problem is that when an artists makes something that has texture on it.. such as a Rock... the filter doesnt know that. Its just smooths everything.. .and so it looks really awful on a lot of the games
--- End quote ---
I take it you didnt bother to click the link or read?
--- Quote ---Two researchers -- Johannes Kopf from Microsoft, and Dani Lischinski from The Hebrew University -- have successfully created an algorithm that depixelizes and upscales low-resolution 8-bit "pixel art" into lush vector graphics.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Read the Title of this post: Future feature of classic Emulators
And then Rays post: .. will be this level of graphics upscaling
There are already versions of mame and other emulators which do almost the exact same thing.
--- Quote ---You'll notice Xiau2, that in the above, the algorithm knew to smooth together the blue shading, while the black outlines are retained as outlines. I'd imagine a rock texture would end up all smoothed out. (I'm not saying it's better; just saying that's what it would do).
--- End quote ---
Of course I notice. I notice just about everything.
And as I said, its not a great option. Most especially in emulators.
Look at the microships Pins on the example. They look like they are dripping. They are not straight pins like they Should be. As Howard pointed out... keys became round.
And the Dolphin shading, is very poor in relation to what the artists drew. For one, the two light blue colors are shaded to the point of being nearly washed out. 2ndly, the middle shade is supposed to make the dolphin more rounded, which works on the original. Yet on the new version? Its completely wrong. Its flat, barely visible, and the shape has altered. The Dark blue, which is supposed to blend in better with the other blue shades, isnt blended at all on the vector version.
Quite simply, the 'Dumb' algorithm isnt up to the task of interpreting art correctly.
Malenko:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on May 26, 2011, 06:48:57 pm ---Read the Title of this post: Future feature of classic Emulators
And then Rays post: .. will be this level of graphics upscaling
--- End quote ---
So we're in agreement then, you didnt read it. I think they got it this good and they are just gonna stop working on it cause that makes perfect sense. They (Kopf and Lischinski) even discuss the short comings of the algorithm in the article and show places it works and doesnt (like the doom guy face)
I believe Ray was saying that emulators will have a new visual effect, along the lines of 2xSaI (that stands for SCALE and INTERPOLATION ) but would be more accurate then just doubling the pixels and blending.
Cant see the forest for the trees?
Xiaou2:
Its extremely doubtful that Vectorization is ever going to be accurate to what the artists intends. I know this, because Im artist. Its not hard to see into the future, when you realize what the realities of the situation are.
Its one thing to vectorize something, and quite another to make an interpretive vectorization.. such as adding blended shading, and line alterations. (jagged edge -vs- smoothed)
How is a vector program going to realize that an object is supposed to be 'rough', such as a rock? By mere color? Sorry, no dice. Only a human is going to be able to decipher an artists intentions in a fast and effective manor. Even many humans who are not artists have trouble with figuring out shading, coloring, and line work.
You would have to have a PC capable of deciphering game objects, such as understanding the object was a Turtle for example, then figuring out the positioning, comparing it against a 3d model of a turtle, checking the lighting and nearby objects, comparing the artists shading with the 3d shading... and trying to figure out artistic liberties and changes, without distortions to the artists intentions.
And thats just the tip of the iceburg!
What about objects of fantasy? Odd shaped space ships? Alien plantlife?
I could go on and on for pages about these things.
Point being, is that it will never be acceptably correct in your lifetime, let alone a few generations down the road. Only when PCs are near 'Skynet' level of Artificial Intelligent... might you even have a glimpse of hope for it to work as intended.
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