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Avoiding a Frankenpanel...

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nitz:


--- Quote from: Donkbaca on April 28, 2011, 01:35:22 pm ---If its got a tron stick, its a franken panel.

No need for 8 buttons, unless you are trying to play console games, which you shouldn't do with arcade controls.

There are no other admin buttons you should have.  

I would have separate coin and 1p buttons, I hate shift controls.

My thoughts on trying to minimize franken panel-ness:
Ignore the desire to play everything, and focus on having the ability to play what you want to play.  That being said, are you really a big enough Tron geek to pay 200 or so bucks to get the controls and have a weird looking CP just to play Tron.  If the answer is yes, then do it, if the answer is, well , I enjoy Tron occassionally, and would like to play it once in a while, then the answer is no.

Same with the trackball, there are only like 6 good trackball games: Golden Tee, Crystal Castles, Marble Madness, Missile Command, Centipede and some sort of bowling everybody talks about.  Do you really like these games enough to where you will play them often?  For me the answer was no. I got a trackball, fired up MAME, discovered that I couldn't really play any of these games for more than 5 minutes, so the trackball was axed.

Are you really going to have 4 people playing the cab enough to justify a 4p setup?  Once again, there are only a handful of games that are fun with 4p; the D&D games, Turtles, Captain Commando, Simpsons and Sunset Riders, and X-men are the only ones I can think of off hand.  I didn't build a 4p CP because I don't think I will ever have 4 people over that want to play the same 4p game.  Unless you have a couple of kids that you want to game with, I think 4p CPs are a waste.  They are huge, ugly and add to costs.

I am not shooting you down, hey if you LOVE Tron, go for the stick.  If you love marble madness, get a trackball, if you have 4 buddies who love Turtles, build a 4 player CP.  As a rule, if its on your CP, it should get regular use, if it doesn't, axe it.


--- End quote ---

I pretty much agree with all of this. I'll throw in my 2 cents based on an eye-opening experience I had recently.

I'm mostly a vertical classics fan, but had planned on doing a rotating monitor because I also like a lot of fighters and beat'em ups. I clumsily broke one of the switches on my 4-way stick when installing my CP. No big deal as I was going to replace that stick anyway, but it did mean no vertical games for awhile since most of the ones I play need the 4-way. So I just put the monitor in horizontally for now and played for a few days. Guess what. I found I'm not all that crazy about playing the horizontal games all the time. Once I play through a beat'em up, I don't really want to play through it again for probably at least a year, and fighters get old fast for me vs. the cpu because once I get to the 4th or 5th match the cpu just cheats until I give up. :P ;) So I'm just gonna mount vertically as I was having a ---smurfette--- of a time getting the rotating to work the way I wanted anyway, and it's hard to get a rotating monitor to look nice with a bezel. I'm gonna leave myself the option of disassembling things a bit and mounting horizontally on ocassion, but that probably won't be often. I can live with the horizontal games at a small size most of the time.

Here's my point: It sounds cool to be able to play everything, but you may not like it as much as you think. The idea is sometimes cooler than the reality. It's kinda like how we all want 5000 songs on our ipods, but how many of us really listen to more than 40-50 of them on a regular basis? ;)

My advice: Play these games for awhile with your keyboard or a gamepad and then decide if you still think you'll want to play them enough to justify the extra controls. It sounds like you're a big Tron fan (but if by chance you haven't played in awhile, I would play it for a bit and decide if you really need that Tron stick), but you may want to play some trackball games for awhile and decide if you really need that.

As for the 4 player thing, if you have kids, I'd say go for it. Kids can likely have fun playing the same beat'em ups over and over, and there might be some fun multi-player console games they'd play too. But if it's so you and your friends can play through Turtles, etc. just think about it a bit. Are your friends really into those games as much as you are? Maybe they are, but if not, you and your buddies are probably gonna play through a 4 player game a grand total of once, MAYBE twice if you're lucky. Having said that, if they're really into the 4 player sports games, it could still be worth it because these games are more fun to play repeadetly than a beat'em up.

If you still think you need all the extras, then you should go for it and don't let anyone here talk you out of it! :cheers: But a swappable panel may be the way to go then if you don't mind the extra work and having to switch panels sometimes.

Xiaou2:


--- Quote ---1. player 3 and 4 will only have 4 buttons
--- End quote ---
Good, cause I dont think there are many 4player games with more then 4buttons.


--- Quote ---2. I'm thinking players 1 and 2 should only have 6 slightly offset pushbuttons,
--- End quote ---
I dont think this is a good option, IMOP.  Ive tried alternate button layouts such as
the so called Ergo "curved' layouts.  In play, I ended up mashing the side edges of
buttons instead of the center.. which resulted in extreme annoyance.  Try a test
panel and play against someone whos excellent at a 6button fighter for an hour, and
see if you have issues or not... before committing to that to a full CP.


--- Quote ---3. Thinking of not adding any extra buttons for the trackball.
--- End quote ---

Good. But just remember, that you should leave at minimal, about 1ft diameter circle
around the ball.  Buttons are ok, but if you put a joystick too close, players will often
smash their hands into it when rolling the ball furiously in gameplay.  This usually
means offsetting the player 1 & 2s symmetry on the CP. It may not look as nice
visually, but you will be far better off playability wise.


--- Quote ---4.  Last but not least, I could minimize admin buttons to Esc, pause, 1-4
player start with a shift button that would allow these 4 to become the coin buttons
too.  etc..
--- End quote ---

Admin buttons are a convenience. But they do add cost, and may not look as nice.
Its really up to you. They usually are at the very top of the cp, so they dont really get
in the way.  You could do something like a pop-up panel, or slide out keyboard.


--- Quote ---Any other suggestions/thoughts?
--- End quote ---

Dont put the other controls too deep into the panel.  If you do, it makes it a strain to
use them for long periods of time.  Also, when possible, try not to make a players
arms rest on top of other controls.  Think about arm angles and placements.

Example: You can nearly put 2 joysticks on top of each other, with just a slight
diagonal, and thats far better than to put the 2nd joystick/controller deep into the
CP, where a player has to rest his arms on a set of buttons just to use it. (along with
stretching uncomfortably)

This:
**************************
*                                                *
*    (o)                                       *
*        (o)   ooo                          *
*                                                *
**************************

Not this:
**************************
*                (o)                           *
*                                                *
*        (o)   ooo                          *
*                                                *
**************************

 Finally, theres very little space saved from angling player 3&4s edges.  Its usually
better just to align the sticks so they can be used for something like smash tv.
 However, if you stick with the angles, at least made sure that All sticks are mounted
the same way.  Dont angle the actual stick itself, as it will just confuse players when
they are playing.  IE: They press up towards the screen, and end up walking a
diagonal instead.

************
*                     *
*    (o)            *
*                     *
*         oo        *
*                     *
************

 Heres another thing you can do:  Place buttons lower on the cp for the 3&4 player
setups. This can make them a little closer, saving some space.  Mostly because the
players elbows will be closer to his body, due to the angles his arms rest at. Wide
elbows leave little room for the other players.


bkenobi:

If p1 and p2 sticks are analog (U360's for instance), you can map their output to whatever you want.  Meaning, if you want to play a tank game with p1+p3, you could align p1 diagonally so it plays (and feels) correct for that orientation.  If you then want to play something with p1+p2, you could use a different angle and it would still feel and work correctly.  Of course, you will pay a lot extra for that stick, but you can get rid of the Tron..err, Frankenstick.   :cheers:

SammyWI:

Donk: Awesome post.  Hall of fame worthy.

I'm planning on making a two player CP using wireless gamepads for the occasional 3 and 4 player games.  CP will have trackball and spinner. 

I'm thinking of modifying a wireless PC flightstick to use as a removable Tron / analog stick.  The wireless stick I have has a base that has three contact points on the base.  I want to add some small extensions to each contact point so that it will sit on the CP, over the top of the P2 buttons.  Then add some magnets to each contact point and place some pieces of steel under the CP, where I want the stick to mount.  If I use rare earth magnets and countersink the steel pieces from underneath the CP, I think the stick could be very secure yet easily removable.

As always: do what you want on your CP.   ;D

drventure:

Der Frankenpanel. Das Gud!

 ;)

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