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just an idea... 2 LCD screen mirror cab with change-able backdrop????
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RandyT:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on April 23, 2011, 03:54:59 pm --- As for the rest, its not quite true.   You can use the front image rather than the back for non-3d games... thus the image will be nearly full brightness.  Theres little losses in even a full half silvered mirror... and even if you noticed a difference, you could adjust the monitor settings.  Maybe even pre adjust them in the settings, so no fiddling is required.

--- End quote ---

Sigh.....A 50/50 beamsplitter knocks both images in half for brightness.  Usually a bit more, due to the losses inherent in the optical coatings themselves.  You should get some experience with optics (or do some research) before forming some of these conclusions.


--- Quote ---The problem would be finding a way to flip the front monitor image.  On a CRT it can be rewired.  Not sure what options there are for LCDs.

--- End quote ---

Some have the option, but most don't.  The industrial and OEM style chassis displays usually do, because the manufacturer never knows how they will be used.


--- Quote --- And finally, I believe there are many more people who would love to build such a design.  There has been talk about it ever so often, here and other message boards elsewhere.   Just because you have no desire for a certain experience, doesnt mean that you represent the mass opinions of others.  Especially for those who have actually seen and played the games in reality.

--- End quote ---

Stop stating that I stated something I did not.  I have no problem with people doing whatever they want to do.  I'm only trying to help folks make some good decisions on how to proceed based on the expected result, and the many years of experience I have had doing the exact thing in this thread, in a commercial environment.  FWIW, none of this is a slight against Bender.  When I first started working in that company many years ago, I thought it would work the same way.

And like I said, if the goal is to replicate something, it would be prudent to make sure that you are actually replicating it.  My memory of the game used in the example is that it was simple "superimposition", which is somewhat pointless with two video screens, rather than a "multi-planar" display.  And without taking measurements of the optical systems inside the games, and having a working knowledge of how they function, you are just making a lot of assumptions about them that have a high likelihood of not even being accurate.  And even so, each of these optical systems will be different, so one setup will not have at shot of replicating the majority of them.

If the OP just wants to do it for the sake of doing it, then by all means.  Sounds like he was asking for input, so it's being provided...by someone who has had much first-hand experience doing it.
Necro:

--- Quote from: Bender on April 23, 2011, 04:57:25 pm ---
just so you know, my friend has a Vizo LCD TV (I think, I'll find out for the brand sure) and it has a flip (mirror) option in the setup menu, not sure why but it's there and can be exploited >:D

--- End quote ---

What model?  I have two vizio tv's and neither have this.

Also, regarding using the front monitor for regular stuff - if you kill the black lights and have behind the silvered mirror be dark it's appears nearly the same brightness as the monitor directly.  At least, it is on the cab I have.
Xiaou2:


 This is a closeup with a bright flash in order to show the mirror inside the usually darkened environment... (normally you cant see any trace of the mirror).

 In this pic, you can see the red line artwork on the left and right sides of mirror.  Each one of them is a triangle shape, stapled to the cab sides.  The mirror reflects the image to make the rest of the lines match up... so it appears more like a square.

 The colors of the reflection are visibly the same brightness / color.  Theres no noticable degradation.  You can also see the complete reflection of the monitor, and again, no visible degradation.

 Behind the mirror, you can barely detect the artwork, because of the amount of light from the flash has canceled it out.  Still if you look closely, theres a faint red-line bezel around the monitor border.  That IS reduced in brightness, because its BEHIND the glass...  where as the bottom monitor is in FRONT of the glass.  Anything in front of the glass will have almost no loss in reflection.

 Things in the rear will be a little dimmer, but with monitor adjustments, you could cancel out some of the losses.  Then again, you really dont need to, as any artwork being displayed would had a slight loss... thus it would probably be close anyways.

 
 While you may have experience with optics and special equipment in a Related field..  I have experience with the actual equipment.  In fact, I own both an Asteriods Deluxe, as well as an old mechanical gun game which also uses a 2way mirror + screened art on the rear of the mirror.  And Ive both seen and worked on almost every well known classic that used a 2way mirror display.





 Edit:  Btw - I believe the ratio for the mirror is  70/30.
RandyT:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on April 24, 2011, 12:05:52 am ---
 The colors of the reflection are visibly the same brightness / color.  Theres no noticable degradation.  You can also see the complete reflection of the monitor, and again, no visible degradation.

--- End quote ---

I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion (maybe you can clarify) but regardless, the lines and monitor face reflected by the beamsplitter are clearly darker in the photo.  Of course, you've managed to zero in on the most minor of the detractions.  The subdued brightness isn't the biggest issue, it's the fact that you end up with the game image buried deep inside the cabinet.


--- Quote ---Anything in front of the glass will have almost no loss in reflection.
--- End quote ---

Good lord, Steve, this depends entirely on the optical design of the system.  You can have beamsplitters made in nearly any ratio you want.  You can even use a piece of window glass in there if you want, and it will still work.  But since
window glass has a ~4% reflection from each surface, whatever is in front of the glass will be at ~4% reflection (with a ghost image that is almost as bright coming from the other side), while whatever is behind the glass will have a ~92% transmission.  I.e. a 92% loss for what is in front of the glass.  Your example is obviously not as exaggerated a difference, but there will always be a loss that is greater than the transmission of the optic.


--- Quote --- Things in the rear will be a little dimmer, but with monitor adjustments, you could cancel out some of the losses.  Then again, you really dont need to, as any artwork being displayed would had a slight loss... thus it would probably be close anyways.

--- End quote ---

It's all relative, artwork or monitor, it makes no difference.  You can always change the intensity of one or the other to accommodate the effect you are looking for.  The lines on the side of the DOT cabinet will always be what they are as a function of the T/R ratio.
 

--- Quote --- While you may have experience with optics and special equipment in a Related field..  I have experience with the actual equipment.  In fact, I own both an Asteriods Deluxe, as well as an old mechanical gun game which also uses a 2way mirror + screened art on the rear of the mirror.  And Ive both seen and worked on almost every well known classic that used a 2way mirror display.

--- End quote ---

Good.  Go use some of that experience and tell me the difference in the distance between the viewer's eye and both the real and the virtual images in your Asteroids Deluxe, then show your work.  It's important to know this for the purposes of this thread.
Xiaou2:
Heh, Gota love it.  Its like you want to win your argument so bad, that you will spout anything, even if its unrelated or unrealistic.

 Why on earth would you quote facts about window glass?  Everyone clearly knows that its not the optic of choice... and does not even come close to factoring in here.

 Maybe theres a 4% loss in clarity with a half silvered mirror... Maybe!  Can anyone really tell?!    (Heck, I cant even get people to see flaws in their pinball playfields at mere inches away)   As can be seen from these pics... the level of degradation is so minimal, as to be completely insignificant. The argument would be valid if you were losing over 20% of the clarity and intensity. Its not even close.

 The argument that you do have, is distance.  But anyone whos played a mirror cab in person, knows its not bad at all.  Unless you intend to make a pedestal cabinet, your gona be fine with a mirror cab.  In fact, plenty of people were fine playing mirror cabs in the arcades... and there was never any complaints about distance... nor loss of clarity.  And all this with a small 19 inch monitor.   Nothing stopping people from using dual 25" or larger monitors.    Heck, I personally found that the 90s cabs with the 25" or larger monitors were a bit too close.

 But no matter.  Any person whos ever seen the beauty and cool factor of these games isnt going to mind the extra distance, nor the 2 to 4% loss of clarity. (maybe lower than most normal arcade machines, due to dust that needs cleaning on the inside-monitor glass)

 If anything, you might see an opportunity to stock up on half silvered mirrors.
Personally, I dont get your attitude.
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