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Author Topic: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0.146u4_013f  (Read 194528 times)

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bitbytebit

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2011, 04:39:59 pm »
Please clarify your license, you can't link MAME against GPL code, and I've been told you're distributing your changes as GPL with no exception being made for MAME use.



I had the old switchres files headers at the top, I have now removed those references to the GPL since this was never intended to be under any license other than the Mame license.  It's in the git repository now, and the patch file is updated, so all files should no longer reference GPL and I being the sole person who put those references in them have revoked that and reverted them to the Mame license (which I originally intended them to be, just an oversite on removing the references from switchres code).
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2011, 04:42:10 pm »
double posted, didn't realize it went into page number 2 :)
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krick

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2011, 11:56:34 pm »
I've got two weird ones for you (see attached log files)...

1) wargods

    Native resolution: horizontal 512x400
    Resolution chosen by GroovyMAME: 800x600@59Hz (interlaced)

    I'm confused on this one.   It appears that 512x448@59Hz is one of the available resolutions, but it was skipped over for some reason.

2)  19xx

    Native resolution: vertical 384x224 @59.63  (which is guess is actually 224x384 )
    Resolution chosen by GroovyMAME: 640x480@59Hz  (interlaced)

    Now that I think about it, I think this is the same issue as Sinistar and I'll have to remedy it by forcing whatever resolution looks most acceptable.  Maybe even running it in D3D mode and letting it hwstretch.  It's gotta look better than interlaced.


As an aside, the main reason I'm having issues with the interlaced resolutions is that my monitor looks very bad interlaced.  I think there might actually be something wrong with it because the alignment of the two "passes" aren't even close.  It's not just flickering, it's misaligned by a scan-line or two.  Asteroids at 640x480 interlaced looks particularly bad.  It's like double-vision.   I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and do a cap kit on my monitor.  I just didn't want to mess with anything because there's always the chance that after the cap kit, it won't work at all if I make a mistake.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 03:52:25 pm by krick »
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2011, 04:28:01 am »
In mame.ini, add a line like this:

monitor_specs0            15625.00-16200.00,49.50-65.00,2.000,4.700,8.000,0.064,0.192,1.024,0,0,288.0,384

The important number here is the last one, we call it VirtualLinesLimit. Normally you would set it to 448 for standard arcade monitors. It means that any resolution below that number of lines will be stretched + interlaced. Above it, they will only be interlaced. So in your case, as you have to play with the standard ArcadeVGA resolutions, it's probably better to set it to 384.

This will fix the wargods one.

For 19xx it's choosing the best resolution available indeed, provided interlace was not a problem.

I'm aware of the problem that interlaced resolutions are to some monitors, I've seen what you say and it's truly unbearable. On the other hand, if your monitor can deal with interlacing properly then it's a great resource for virtually doubling your vertical resolution at the cost of loosing sharpness. All our methods assume interlace works fine, maybe an option for not using interlaced modes could be eventually added but that would involve changing the logic quite a bit.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 04:31:09 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2011, 03:46:23 pm »
Please clarify your license, you can't link MAME against GPL code, and I've been told you're distributing your changes as GPL with no exception being made for MAME use.



I had the old switchres files headers at the top, I have now removed those references to the GPL since this was never intended to be under any license other than the Mame license.  It's in the git repository now, and the patch file is updated, so all files should no longer reference GPL and I being the sole person who put those references in them have revoked that and reverted them to the Mame license (which I originally intended them to be, just an oversite on removing the references from switchres code).

Ok, thanks for clearing that up so quickly :-)

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2011, 09:46:50 am »
Hi,

I have an ArcadeVGA2 card hooked to a WG7000 series arcade monitor.  I love the way it sets the resolution without the additional .ini files.

I'm having a few issues with tearing which I thought was supposed to be corrected according to the features.  Maybe someone can help me. 

I did a clean install of GroovyMAME and generated the .ini file.  First thing I noticed is that the games ran way too fast so I set throttle to 1 (0 by default, not sure why) which fixed that.  Now, I still notice tearing in games (Mortal Kombats title screen sides and ladder scrolling are choppy and a few other side scrolling games as well that I have tried). I have tried all sorts of combination settings with waitvsync, syncrefresh, triplebuffer, soundsync etc. with no success of getting the tearing to stop.  Can someone explain how I should have my ini files setup to get rid of this problem or post an example?  Much appreciated.

Brett

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2011, 09:52:22 am »
Hi,

I have an ArcadeVGA2 card hooked to a WG7000 series arcade monitor.  I love the way it sets the resolution without the additional .ini files.

I'm having a few issues with tearing which I thought was supposed to be corrected according to the features.  Maybe someone can help me.  

I did a clean install of GroovyMAME and generated the .ini file.  First thing I noticed is that the games ran way too fast so I set throttle to 1 (0 by default, not sure why) which fixed that.  Now, I still notice tearing in games (Mortal Kombats title screen sides and ladder scrolling are choppy and a few other side scrolling games as well that I have tried). I have tried all sorts of combination settings with waitvsync, syncrefresh, triplebuffer, soundsync etc. with no success of getting the tearing to stop.  Can someone explain how I should have my ini files setup to get rid of this problem or post an example?  Much appreciated.

Brett
Did you use the customized ATI drivers?  For the older ArcadeVGA cards like yours based of the Radeon 92XX versions, those patched drivers will allow you to get the refresh rate matched properly.  Calamity might have some more information on the issue, but I suspect it can be fixed by using the patched drivers instead of the ones that came with the ArcadeVGA.

Update: Another option, but less optimal, is to try with -nosyncrefresh, and -nomultithreading, not the best compared to the custom drivers but that enables triplebuffer, also in that case might want -soundsync too.  That is the quick less optimal way to get it to avoid tearing, but best to use the custom drivers for that card.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 10:04:45 am by bitbytebit »
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2011, 10:06:05 am »
I'm using the drivers that came with the ArcadeVGA card (or off the Ultimarc site, can't remember).  I was afraid of messing with drivers but you think I should use these new drivers and that may fix the issues?

bitbytebit

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2011, 10:42:39 am »
I'm using the drivers that came with the ArcadeVGA card (or off the Ultimarc site, can't remember).  I was afraid of messing with drivers but you think I should use these new drivers and that may fix the issues?
Lets see what Calamity says to make sure to avoid messing with the drivers if it's not going to work, but I'm pretty sure it will.  Do you have the AGP or PCIe version of the card?  Isn't it the one that's a Radeon 9250?  

Basically the custom drivers will put in 120 custom modelines, and those can have the refresh rate altered by groovymame dynamically on each game load.  Otherwise with the normal Ultimarc drivers for that card you only have 30 resolutions and we can't alter the refresh rates, so can never match it unless it's just lucky and matches the 60hz or whatever value the default is for that modeline.  

So I'm pretty sure it'll just work great with the custom drivers, and that's pretty much what Calamity and everyone else is doing, his custom drivers will work with an ArcadeVGA card just fine, unless it's the 3000 model, which is different than the others (which groovymame still works with, just can't do the same complex refresh rate altering on the 3000 unless it's used in Linux).

The alternative command line option though, could be tried until Calamity shows up, probably later today he'll respond.  I'm curious how that works anyways, basically what it does is by specifying -nosyncrefresh -nomultithreading -soundsync it will use triplebuffer and setup things according to that, and avoid tearing that way which does have some downsides compared to the vsync refresh method used by the custom drivers when we are able to match the refresh rates exactly.  This is the alternative when we can't know the refresh rates of the modelines and expect them most likely not to match exact, since they are not custom ones where we can actually see the timings and calculate the refresh rates from those timings (and then alter them if different).
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 10:44:38 am by bitbytebit »
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GroovyMame - generate arcade resolutions like advancemame
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2011, 11:18:31 am »
Hi,

I have an ArcadeVGA2 card hooked to a WG7000 series arcade monitor.  I love the way it sets the resolution without the additional .ini files.

I'm having a few issues with tearing which I thought was supposed to be corrected according to the features.  Maybe someone can help me. 

I did a clean install of GroovyMAME and generated the .ini file.  First thing I noticed is that the games ran way too fast so I set throttle to 1 (0 by default, not sure why) which fixed that.  Now, I still notice tearing in games (Mortal Kombats title screen sides and ladder scrolling are choppy and a few other side scrolling games as well that I have tried). I have tried all sorts of combination settings with waitvsync, syncrefresh, triplebuffer, soundsync etc. with no success of getting the tearing to stop.  Can someone explain how I should have my ini files setup to get rid of this problem or post an example?  Much appreciated.

Brett

Hi bgmagic,

First, make sure vsync does not work actually, use the -syncrefresh param that with GroovyMame basically forces the vsync mechanism whatever the refresh is. Leave throttle as 0 (it will be set to 0 by -syncrefresh anyway).

If doing this you still have tearing, or probably the game running full speed, then there's a big chance that your ddraw acceleration is not working, what usually is due to badly installed video drivers. Run 'dxdiag' and in the screen tab check if all ddraw/d3d features are enabled. If they're not, don't look any further, that's the issue. You'll need to uninstall/reinstall drivers, until dxdiag shows ddraw is enabled. You may need to do this several times (yes).

If you finally need to go through the driver reinstalling path, then it could be interesting to try the patched ones here: http://mario.groovy.org/GroovyMame/WindowsATIDrivers/
Version 6.5 is the one that supports some older models of ArcadeVGA (1 & 2, not the 3000), just the ones which chipsets I've known (see the driver's .inf file for detais).



Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2011, 11:25:43 am »
I'm pretty sure its the 9250 and its definitely the AGP one.  I'll keep my eyes posted on here but I think you are right.  When I set it up I used the drivers that Ultimarc sent and there was a little utility to generate ini files for each game.  I took those ini's out and GroovyMame matched the resolution exactly if they were still there except I'm guessing it was NOT matching the refresh rate because I didn't have the custom drivers installed.  So basically no matter what combination of settings I changed in the mame.ini file I got the same frame tearing result.  I will try it tonight and see what happens.  

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2011, 11:28:09 am »
Is your monitor a 15KHz monitor or a 25KHz monitor?

I'm using groovymame with the default settings aith an ArcadeVGA 3000 and the ultimarc drivers on a 15KHz monitor.  I'm not having any speed issues with games at all.  Is there something unique about the older ArcadeVGA card that makes it behave different?

However, I did notice that when I attached my ArcadeVGA to my desktop LCD, the games were unplayably fast, which doesnt make any sense.
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2011, 11:30:00 am »
Also, can I set these things like -nosyncrefresh -nomultithreading -soundsync in the ini or do I have to add them to the command line after mame.exe?

And its a 15Khz monitor.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2011, 11:31:35 am »
Is your monitor a 15KHz monitor or a 25KHz monitor?

I'm using groovymame with the default settings aith an ArcadeVGA 3000 and the ultimarc drivers on a 15KHz monitor.  I'm not having any speed issues with games at all.  Is there something unique about the older ArcadeVGA card that makes it behave different?

However, I did notice that when I attached my ArcadeVGA to my desktop LCD, the games were unplayably fast, which doesnt make any sense.
Yeah in the older ArcadeVGA cards they didn't have the video bios based modelines, they were registry based.  So older cards are pretty close to a normal Radeon, the 3000 has completely reworked the video bios so official ATI stuff won't work with it correctly.

Those options would be on the command line, in the .ini they would be...

syncrefresh 0
triplebuffer 1
soundsync 1

Which you should find the current setting in the mame.ini file and change them to these values, else the old one might override any new settings you put in there.

Update: Changed options above to what they should actually be :)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 12:20:13 pm by bitbytebit »
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2011, 11:59:57 am »
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 12:08:59 pm by krick »
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2011, 12:11:47 pm »
EDIT: I've moved this to the switchres thread to keep this one cleaner and for new comers...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=106405.msg1181189#msg1181189
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 01:50:21 pm by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2011, 09:38:58 pm »
Okay... I installed the Custom Drivers and reinstalled DirectX.  All frame tearing issues are gone which is great but I have lots of sound skipping issues.  Mortal Kombat music and sound effects double play sometimes and other games as well.  I turned soundsync on and tried other combinations and can't seem to get it to go away.  Any ideas on this one?

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2011, 12:10:41 am »
Okay... I installed the Custom Drivers and reinstalled DirectX.  All frame tearing issues are gone which is great but I have lots of sound skipping issues.  Mortal Kombat music and sound effects double play sometimes and other games as well.  I turned soundsync on and tried other combinations and can't seem to get it to go away.  Any ideas on this one?
Possibly posting the output with '-verbose -md 4' added to the groovymame command line will help, and also curious what Calamity thinks of that issue, he might have more ideas than me on that.  Sounds strange, double playing like that, never experienced that before but it may be some windows specific reason for it that I haven't seen in Linux.

Also I'm uploading a new build 012o, which has a patch from Calamity which somewhat simplifies the logic in the setup for the mame.ini and refresh speed stuff.  It should be uploaded in about 30 minutes or less, just make sure the file size isn't changing still and it should be done uploading and ready to download.

Here's his explanation of it, at least it'll give you more options possibly to deal with, and does some different stuff which I suspect might help, not 100% sure...
Quote
So now, the default behaviour (with everything off) is that groovymame decides
if enabling vsync or not. This will be fine for most games, but the ones for
which we don't get to match the refresh, or maybe in the AVGA 3000 where we
can't do custom modes. In these cases, tearing will happen.

In order to remove tearing, the user will have two options: -syncrefresh or
-triplebuffer.

With syncrefresh the action is forced to run at the refresh speed (soundsync
optional).

On the other hand, if triplebuffer is selected, it will override -syncrefresh
and just enable throttle to run 100% but flipping pages to remove tearing
(flips are synched to retrace but not action). There will be scroll hiccups
due to frameskipping but this is not an issue with games like pacman.

One can also use -syncrefresh as a general option, and just enable
-triplebuffer when needed.

All these options assume that multithreading is on, that is the default. If
it's off, then -triplebuffer will adjust the speed to the refresh in the same
way -syncrefresh does, but with really heavy input lag, so it's a combination
to avoid.

SwitchRes / GroovyMame - http://arcade.groovy.org
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LiveCD of Groovy Arcade Linux for Arcade Monitors
GroovyMame - generate arcade resolutions like advancemame
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2011, 12:28:24 am »
Okay... I installed the Custom Drivers and reinstalled DirectX.  All frame tearing issues are gone which is great but I have lots of sound skipping issues.  Mortal Kombat music and sound effects double play sometimes and other games as well.  I turned soundsync on and tried other combinations and can't seem to get it to go away.  Any ideas on this one?

What kind of cpu do you have and what speed?  That sounds like the classic underpowered cpu symptoms in MAME.
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2011, 02:20:06 am »
I am having problems with two games:
1. Frogger
In MaLa the resolution of Frogger is listed as 768x224. When I start it, I get a interlaced small picture. When I edit the frogger.ini to 256x240 I only get some part of the screen whitch is much to big. In an older version of MAME32UI it runs fine at 256x240.
2. 19xx
Game runs at 86% when pressing F11. But it didn't look that slow. So I handstopped the time of the intro of the game and compared with MAME32UI and the groovymame runs at about 95% compared to MAME32UI.

My settings are : syncrefresh 1, vsync 0, tripplebuffer 0, sounsync 1

One further question: I am running Catalyst 6.5 and the soft15kHz patch. Is there any benefit in installing the patched drivers from Calamity.

Any help is appreciated.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2011, 03:49:32 am »
I thought, mame generates the hi-file when I run a game.


Oh, I see, you hadn't it set right. It does create the files....though, there's no 'high score' beyond a game's defaults, until you make one.


I'm using an X800, have installed the 6.5 drivers, GM142, created an ini from it, and in DK and Mspac run vertical on horizontal monitor, I'm getting some weird interlaced-like image, even though it appears to be running at 640x240. Not only that, but the left side of the image is cut, and re-appears on the right edge of the screen.

It seems to prefer 320x250 for 256x240 games.

With the 9.3 drivers, I was getting 320x250 on DK. I don't remember what it used for horizontal games; maybe the same.

Are you using 6.5 for XP-64? Are you generating more than 120 modelines for that?
Definitely a log with -v -md 4 will tell us what's happening.


I'm using XP32, and was using cat 6.5 .  I forgot to get a log. However, I decided to go back to my original configuration. I'll call if I head along this direction again and run into issues. Thanks.
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2011, 03:50:16 am »
One further question: I am running Catalyst 6.5 and the soft15kHz patch. Is there any benefit in installing the patched drivers from Calamity.

So you mean you installed Soft-15Khz over my drivers? That's probably the issue.
You don't need Soft-15Khz with these drivers, it will override our predifined resolutions that GroovyMame expects to find. Just install the drivers and run GroovyMame after that!
When you feel there's some tweaking needed for the video modes, use VMMaker app included to better adjust them for your particular monitor.

EDIT: Also, make sure to remove or rename your old ini folder, otherwise it will mess with GroovyMame setup.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 03:58:05 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2011, 03:58:32 am »
No, I didn't install your drivers at all. I just found out about groovymame a few days ago and I was wondering if I should uninstall Catalyst 6.5 and install your dirvers instead. Is there any benefit?

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2011, 04:08:26 am »
No, I didn't install your drivers at all. I just found out about groovymame a few days ago and I was wondering if I should uninstall Catalyst 6.5 and install your dirvers instead. Is there any benefit?

Oh sorry man, I mistook your nick with bgmagic above :)

Yes, there's a big benefit in using the patched drivers, it doubles the number of resolutions your can use, so it will fit your games much better. Also the predefined resolutions are the ones that GroovyMame expects to find, so you'll find that it chooses a perfect resolution most of the times.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2011, 04:15:03 am »
Ok, then I will try your drivers.
Just to make sure: Is it still possible with your drivers to set the resolution manually in the ini file?
There is a program called ArcadeVGARes whitch generates the ini files with the low arcade resolutions.

Another question: How can I find out which resolution on a certain game groovymame actually chooses. Is there some onscreen display or log-file to find out what resolution was chosen?

Thank you for your help.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2011, 04:33:36 am »
Ok, then I will try your drivers.
Just to make sure: Is it still possible with your drivers to set the resolution manually in the ini file?
There is a program called ArcadeVGARes whitch generates the ini files with the low arcade resolutions.

Another question: How can I find out which resolution on a certain game groovymame actually chooses. Is there some onscreen display or log-file to find out what resolution was chosen?

Thank you for your help.

Yes you can use inis but that's not the intended way with GroovyMame. You can still use an ini for a particular game if you feel it's needed, but should never generate a complete ini folder.
Actually the VMMaker app included with the drivers can also generate inis much better than AVRes as they are done at the same time the modelines are calculated so the refreshes are really known, but that method is, let's say, the classic old one, and not the default any more (see VMMaker.ini for details).
If you want to know which resolution groovymame is using run it with the -v -md 4 params and it will prompt all the information about that.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2011, 04:46:10 am »
One final (?) question before I install the drivers:

I have two cabs connected to one computer (one cab is for horizontal the other for vertical games).
I have an ATI Radeon 9600 card with one VGA output and one DVI. I use an VGA-adapter on the DVI output. The two monitors (actually one arcade monitor and one TV with scart connected to VGA) run in clone-mode. I activate the clone mode in the ATI control center.
I think with your drivers I don't have the control center any more. How can I active the clone mode?
Is it still possible to install the control center?

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2011, 04:57:29 am »
One final (?) question before I install the drivers:

I have two cabs connected to one computer (one cab is for horizontal the other for vertical games).
I have an ATI Radeon 9600 card with one VGA output and one DVI. I use an VGA-adapter on the DVI output. The two monitors (actually one arcade monitor and one TV with scart connected to VGA) run in clone-mode. I activate the clone mode in the ATI control center.
I think with your drivers I don't have the control center any more. How can I active the clone mode?
Is it still possible to install the control center?

Oh I see...

I'd just search for the control center that matches the Catalyst version you're going to use, and install it. It won't break anything provided you just use that for cloning.

I have never tried ATI's clone mode, will be interesting to see your results.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 05:04:26 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2011, 05:11:52 am »

I have two cabs connected to one computer (one cab is for horizontal the other for vertical games).


For your setup, you'd better edit VMMaker.ini after driver's install, to set MonitorHorizontal param to 0. Then run VMMaker and restart.

Otherwise resolutions for vertical games would be generated as rotated.

Then, edit mame.ini and edit this param:
monitor_orientation rotate
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2011, 06:07:47 am »
I uninstalled the Catalyst driver, installed your driver and after that installed the Control Center.
Unfortunately the control center doesn't run with your driver. I get the error message that I dont have permission to change the settings in the control center.
So now I can not run the clone mode.
I guess I have to go back to Catalyst + soft15kHz.

Thank you for your help.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 06:17:45 am by blagger »

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2011, 06:33:19 am »
I uninstalled the Catalyst driver, installed your driver and after that installed the Control Center.
Unfortunately the control center doesn't run with your driver. I get the error message that I dont have permission to change the settings in the control center.
So now I can not run the clone mode.
I guess I have to go back to Catalyst + soft15kHz.

Thank you for your help.

Oh I see. Yours is not a common setup. I personally never install CCC, so can't be of much help :( Actually it should work provided it's the same version (it shouldn't notice the difference with regular drivers).

The clone feature, imho, is a BAD thing, just a quick workaround for people plugging TVs to their computers. When the clone mode is on, usually a minimum common compromise setup is applied to both monitors, loosing advanced hardware feature access, like custom refresh settings. Probably in your case it's working fine because both monitors are similar CRTs. The "professional" way to go is to have each monitor as a separate device with it's own independent desktop (you don't need CCC for this, just Screen/Properties tab), but I can't figure an easy way for you to set things like that with current GroovyMame.

Probably it's easier for you to go back to Catalyst + Soft15Khz, you'll still be able to have a rather enjoyable system with GroovyMame, specially if you have both horizontal and vertical monitors so you don't need SO many resolutions to make vertical games fit in a horizontal monitor.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 06:48:37 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2011, 07:44:57 am »
Okay... I installed the Custom Drivers and reinstalled DirectX.  All frame tearing issues are gone which is great but I have lots of sound skipping issues.  Mortal Kombat music and sound effects double play sometimes and other games as well.  I turned soundsync on and tried other combinations and can't seem to get it to go away.  Any ideas on this one?

What kind of cpu do you have and what speed?  That sounds like the classic underpowered cpu symptoms in MAME.

Its a single core AMD 3200+.  Should be plenty to run most games.  I basically get sound skipping every few seconds.  The audio is clear but every few seconds there is a hiccup almost like the sound is trying to catch up to the video.  Hard to explain but it does it on every game I tried last night which was about 50 of them.  Its gotta be something stupid.  I messed with the syncrefresh, waitvsync, triplebuffer, and soundsync settings and one of the settings gave me clean audio but the pitch was lower and the games ran a tad slower.  I'm trying to figure out how you guys got this to produce no tearing and perfect audio.  I just havent seen it yet.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #72 on: April 30, 2011, 09:26:13 am »
Calamity, sorry I made a mistake.
Control Center not running had nothing to do with your drivers. The reason for the error was, I disabled a lot of (unnecessary(?)) Windows services in order to have a slim and fast system. But in order to run the control center I had to enable some of those services.
So, the control center runs with your drivers.
But there is another problem. I cannot enabel the secondary monitor.
With soft15k you have to separately patch both the primary and the secondary vga output.
Maybe with your driver only the primary output is patched.

Anyway, I went back to soft15k and everything runs ok.

Thank you for your help.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #73 on: April 30, 2011, 03:06:11 pm »
Calamity, sorry I made a mistake.
Control Center not running had nothing to do with your drivers. The reason for the error was, I disabled a lot of (unnecessary(?)) Windows services in order to have a slim and fast system. But in order to run the control center I had to enable some of those services.
So, the control center runs with your drivers.
But there is another problem. I cannot enabel the secondary monitor.
With soft15k you have to separately patch both the primary and the secondary vga output.
Maybe with your driver only the primary output is patched.

Anyway, I went back to soft15k and everything runs ok.

Thank you for your help.

Ah, good to know that CCC can be used there too. Yes, Soft-15Khz has better support for multi-monitor setups, it installs its modelines for both devices. So better use it for your setup. I'll add multi-monitor support in VMMaker and ArcadeOSD eventually, it's actually quite straight forward but right now it would introduce an additional layer of complexity for GroovyMame having to guess which monitor to use (I mean having them independent, not in clone-mode).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2011, 04:08:54 pm »
Anyone got any ideas on my sound issues?

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2011, 04:48:46 pm »
Its a single core AMD 3200+.  Should be plenty to run most games.  I basically get sound skipping every few seconds.  The audio is clear but every few seconds there is a hiccup almost like the sound is trying to catch up to the video.  Hard to explain but it does it on every game I tried last night which was about 50 of them.  Its gotta be something stupid.  I messed with the syncrefresh, waitvsync, triplebuffer, and soundsync settings and one of the settings gave me clean audio but the pitch was lower and the games ran a tad slower.  I'm trying to figure out how you guys got this to produce no tearing and perfect audio.  I just havent seen it yet.

What follows is only valid for GroovyMame starting from 12o. Older versions work slightly different. Regular Mame is another story (we've somewhat modified the way -syncrefresh, -waitvsync, -triplebuffer are implemented).

Well basically we try to calculate modelines with a refresh that matches the game's original fps. But that's not always possible, due to the usual limitations of monitors that can only sync at some ranges of hfreq. So, what actually determines which frequencies we can produce is the monitor type option we select mame.ini.

If you leave the default "cga" monitor, all 240 lines resolutions will be fine, but you won't be able to set a video mode of i.e. 400x256@60, it will only reach around 400@256@57. So for a game like 1942 that runs at 60 Hz, GroovyMame by default will disable sync to vertical retrace, and you'll have tearing.

We can force to sync to vertical retrace by enabling -syncrefresh. Inmediately, the game 1942 will reduce its speed to 95% (57/60). Scroll will be perfectly smooth. As sound is processed separately, it still thinks we are running at 100%, so periodically it will have to stop to let the game catch with the sound. In order to force sound to also sync with our rendering speed, we need to enable the -soundsync option. Obviously this only can be achieved by modifying its frequency by the same factor, so there will be a clear difference in pitch. But this is the only possible and less bad thing you can do if you really want have perfect scrolls without sound stuttering when your refresh doesn't match the game's fps.

If you really can't bear with the slow down or it's too bad for a particular game, then there's still a way you can have your game run at 100% without any tearing: the -triplebuffer option. As we'll run at the original speed, we don't need any sound trick here. Of course, there is a catch: tearing is removed as triplebuffer enables page flipping, but we won't have perfect scrolls any more, as the game action will not be synchronized with our vertical refresh. Page flipping however is still synchronized to vertical retrace, that's why tearing doesn't happen.

Depending on the game -triplebuffer method will be better than the other, so for pacman it's good as there's no scrolling and -syncrefresh would affect its speed badly, but for 1942 you'll notice the scroll has some small hiccups, which you can tolerate or not. Triplebuffering (as it's currently done in Mame/GroovyMame) has an additional drawback: it will add some input lag. However, this won't be so bad if you always use -multithreading (on by default). That's why for gameplay,-triplebuffer is less desirable than -syncrefresh.

If you enable -triplebuffer, then -syncrefresh is automatically disabled, so you if you enable both of them only -triplebuffer will be used. If you are going to use -triplebuffer for some game, it's a good idea to create an ini for it so you don't use that option all the time.

You may wonder what's -waitvsync used for now. In GroovyMame, -waitvsync is used internally by the program, so any value that you set to this option will be overriden. So, if you leave the options by default, -waitvsync will be enabled/disabled internally to perform synchronization when required. By enabling -syncrefresh, what you do is to tell GroovyMame to always force -waitvsync, whatever the refresh is. (Notice that in regular Mame, -syncrefresh/-waitvsync are exactly the same option, they do the same, as the mainstream code is implemented).

Now, back to the monitor type option, if you are positive your monitor accepts a wider range of frequencies than the default "cga" template, you can either choose some of the predefined monitors or create your custom settings that fit your particular monitor. There is a potencial risk to damage your monitor when messing with this stuff, it's never bad to remind this.

So, what I do is to choose my model: h9110. With this monitor, I have a way wider range than using the cga one, so I'll be able to generate i.e. 400x256@60Hz modeline, and thus run 1942 at 100% without forcing things. As you see, usually the monitor option is what most directly affects final game speed (if we want to sync to vertical retrace), and most issues with stuttering sound are produced by trying to sync to wrong refresh rates rather than needing more cpu power.

Finally, there some games that really are too much for our cpu: most 3D games for instance. The problem here is that usually, the right refresh is achieved, so GroovyMame will automatically enable -waitvsync. By doing this, our fps can be dramatically cut off by 50%, because most of our cpu time is wasted just waiting for vertical retrace. Again, the -triplebuffer option comes in handy here, as it will revert the -waitvsync mechanism and let the game engine run freely while our frames are flipped independently at the refresh speed. As GroovyMame has no way to guess if your cpu is going to be enough for a given game, -triplebuffer here needs to be added manually by you when required.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 04:58:17 pm by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2011, 12:51:07 am »
His CPU is only single core, so multithreading isn't really going to work that well.
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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2011, 05:38:07 am »
His CPU is only single core, so multithreading isn't really going to work that well.

Multithreading has been there much longer than dual core processors have existed, it will work fine :)

However, I'm now seeing a problem with the new implementation of -triplebuffer, a small but annoying flash that covers just some lines. It just happens here when I set the monitor type to 'cga', 'pal' or 'ntsc', that's why I hadn't seen it before. I'll try to find a fix for it.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 05:48:03 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #78 on: May 06, 2011, 11:54:18 am »
I installed drivers and ran Arcade_OSD. I stepped through each resolution available in the list (using <- and ->) and pressed enter when it displayed correctly.

I accidentally selected one of the higher res' which causes an instant blue screen, how do I un-select that video mode?

Also, I run an older ArcadeVGA via a J-PAC and when I tested some of the games they give me a much smaller, squashed version of the games that looked fine before. This was mainly in vertical games though. But I tried a horizontal shooter (Side Arms) and it does not full screen and looks quite squashed.

I have a 26" monitor, so vertical games squeezed still look pretty good. I downloaded GroovyMAME to solve some of the tearing in some of my favourite games. But if I am relatively happy with D3D and hwstretch, I should stick with it?

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Re: GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0142.012
« Reply #79 on: May 06, 2011, 12:21:38 pm »
Further to my previous comments, I cannot run any MAME games, either with groovymame or regular mame. As soon as the game loads, it immediately blue-screens and reboots. I've uninstalled the CRT_emudrivers and reinstalled the ArcadeVGA ones but now have exactly the same results. It's getting late and I'll have to get back to it tomorrow. I'm sure I'll be able to return it to working order but currently any change in resolution - whether a game or just switching MAMEWah themese will blue-screen the PC.