RAM Controls

[CheffoJeffo]

I received a PM from Channelmaniac, who is also a moderator over at KLOV, letting me know that it looks like RAM Controls may be on a similar route previously travelled by SlikStik. Lots of orders outstanding -- almost $25K worth last I checked.

I have updated the RAM Controls listing in the wiki with a warning and link to the thread over at KLOV.

Link to big thread on KLOV

Link To Google Spreadsheet Listing People Missing Orders

You can email rippedoffbyramcontrols@gmail.com to add your name to the spreadsheet.

I hate these kind of threads and hate to see this happen, particularly on this scale. I have done well by Dave, but then the same was true of my dealings with Christian.

 

[ark_ader]

I received a PM from Channelmaniac, who is also a moderator over at KLOV, letting me know that it looks like RAM Controls may be on a similar route previously travelled by SlikStik. Lots of orders outstanding -- almost $25K worth last I checked.

I have updated the RAM Controls listing in the wiki with a warning and link to the thread over at KLOV.

Link to big thread on KLOV

Link To Google Spreadsheet Listing People Missing Orders

You can email rippedoffbyramcontrols@gmail.com to add your name to the spreadsheet.

I hate these kind of threads and hate to see this happen, particularly on this scale. I have done well by Dave, but then the same was true of my dealings with Christian.

 

Well I hope you accusation is accurate, as Dave has always kept his word.

If you are wrong about this......

[bkenobi]

spreadsheet linkie no workie

[milhouse]

That's too bad.  Their work his high quality.  I receive an order about 2 weeks ago from them.  Took a couple of weeks to get to me, and I initiated a paypal dispute to make sure I got it, but it did get here. Maybe I am just one of the lucky ones?

[CheffoJeffo]

Well I hope you accusation is accurate, as Dave has always kept his word.

If you are wrong about this......

I made no accusations whatsoever -- just relaying the news from KLOV.

We know for fact that there are BYOACers who have still not received orders, and for more than Star Wars yokes, so I'm not sure how you can claim that Dave always keeps his word.

[VanillaGorilla]

This is just sad.  I've no reason to fell taken advantage of personally, my dealings with dave/ram have been stellar, but the last thing the community needs is to be taken advantage of. It just ain't right. There must be some behavioral health issues at play, or a family stressor. Such a shame, I thought he was a well intentioned guy, but the spreadsheet tells the tale. Looks like plain fraud, especially when you consider the Star Wars cockpit cabs that he has 'sold'.

[Hoopz]

spreadsheet linkie no workie

It's a Google Doc that's being shared so you'll need a Google account to sign in to in order to see it.

Or else CheffoJeffo updated the link and it wasn't working properly before but is now.   

[Crayola]

Dave is definitly ripping people off. This has been going on for a few months on the KLOV
forum. 28k is just the tip of the iceburg. They are beginning to organize to go after him
from a criminal/civil pov I believe.

Stay as far away from Ram Controls as you can.

Crayola

[bkenobi]

spreadsheet linkie no workie

It's a Google Doc that's being shared so you'll need a Google account to sign in to in order to see it.

Or else CheffoJeffo updated the link and it wasn't working properly before but is now.   

Yeah, apparently my work filters Google spreadsheets due to "inappropriate content".  Whatever.   

[RayB]

This is very sad and disappointing. Dave's engineering and meticulousness is beyond reproach (from what I have seen in photographs and customer's reviews). To lose that kind of contribution to this hobby is a major loss regardless of the cause.

I wish Dave would reach out to locals and just ask for help, if, you know... he's in "trouble". (I don't mean like begging for money, but help getting orders out and dealt with to relieve whatever stress has him over his head). Of course, a sane person would shut down taking orders until such problems are remedied, so some of my sympathy here isn't fully deserved.
 

[BobA]

The total amount of losses make an action quite unlikely.  Knowing what lawyers charge they could eat up way more than the amount lost in a week.

[milhouse]

I'm an attorney and while this should not be construed as legal advice and I am not admitted in CA, this is actually a decent case to pursue and the kind of thing that an individual could do without an attorney.  Its ideal particularly because CA's consumer protection statutes are very consumer-friendly and depending on the circumstances of an individual transaction, could result in treble damages.  I don't know if you are allowed to in CA, but some states will allow you to appear by phone to argue your case, or alternatively, do everything by written motion so that you could sue the company in CA.  Alternatively you might be able to sue locally, and probably win via default (assuming no one appears to respond to your complaint).  Collecting on that judgment might be a pain though as you'd have to deal with CA on that. 

So its not that hard and it can easily be done without an attorney.  Its mostly a pain in the ass, and a time-suck, as is all litigation.

Not legal advice, etc.

[FrizzleFried]

I received a PM from Channelmaniac, who is also a moderator over at KLOV, letting me know that it looks like RAM Controls may be on a similar route previously travelled by SlikStik. Lots of orders outstanding -- almost $25K worth last I checked.

I have updated the RAM Controls listing in the wiki with a warning and link to the thread over at KLOV.

Link to big thread on KLOV

Link To Google Spreadsheet Listing People Missing Orders

You can email rippedoffbyramcontrols@gmail.com to add your name to the spreadsheet.

I hate these kind of threads and hate to see this happen, particularly on this scale. I have done well by Dave, but then the same was true of my dealings with Christian.

 

Well I hope you accusation is accurate, as Dave has always kept his word.

If you are wrong about this......

I'd be interested in knowing how RAM could deliver full working REPRO Cockpits as he's sold to MULTIPLE PEOPLE over at KLOV.   Seriously.  How is the man going to delivery FULL REPRO cockpits when he doesn't have the artwork... plus I am pretty sure he's not reproing the SW boardsets... or the amp tubes... or the amp chassis... or... or... or...

Please... do you really think the guy can come through with FULLY REPROED COCKPITS that he's already SOLD to multiple people?

For those doubting the guy was pre-selling FULL COCKPITS...take a look at this page that a KLOVian member saved before RAM took it down.



Bah... the software here resizes.  Here is a direct link:

http://www.720zone.com/Ram-Controls-SW-Sale.html
I feel real bad for those being taken for a ride... ESPECIALLY those who pre-paid for FULL COCKPITS at just about $3K.

[Bender]

I have had good luck with Ram Controls and the quality of the products are first rate, but anyone who has been following this site knows Dave has had serious issues filling orders, so one should take precautions when ordering, use a credit card, get tracking #, etc

I'd like to see a list of OUR members who still have outstanding orders I know there are a few, but have no idea many, my hunch is that there are not that many

Half of the money from that  goggle list are for Star Wars Cab pre Orders, so I think that $24K is a little deceiving
having said that I would NEVER, EVER pre order from Ram Controls
I really hope with outstanding orders get resolved soon, this just so disturbing

[Hoopz]

I have had good luck with Ram Controls and the quality of the products are first rate, but anyone who has been following this site knows Dave has had serious issues filling orders, so one should take precautions when ordering, use a credit card, get tracking #, etc

I'd like to see a list of OUR members who still have outstanding orders I know there are a few, but have no idea many, my hunch is that there are not that many

Half of the money from that  goggle list are for Star Wars Cab pre Orders, so I think that $24K is a little deceiving
having said that I would NEVER, EVER pre order from Ram Controls
I really hope with outstanding orders get resolved soon, this just so disturbing

Surely, you jest?  How can the list be deceiving when Dave hasn't delivered on what he took payment for?  Just because they are more expensive items doesn't make his fraud any less.

[FrizzleFried]

I have had good luck with Ram Controls and the quality of the products are first rate, but anyone who has been following this site knows Dave has had serious issues filling orders, so one should take precautions when ordering, use a credit card, get tracking #, etc

I'd like to see a list of OUR members who still have outstanding orders I know there are a few, but have no idea many, my hunch is that there are not that many

Half of the money from that  goggle list are for Star Wars Cab pre Orders, so I think that $24K is a little deceiving
having said that I would NEVER, EVER pre order from Ram Controls
I really hope with outstanding orders get resolved soon, this just so disturbing

[yotsuya]

I thought he had someone helping him already?

It's probably telling that his site advertises the January sale- in March.

[Bender]

Surely, you jest?  How can the list be deceiving when Dave hasn't delivered on what he took payment for?  Just because they are more expensive items doesn't make his fraud any less.

um...  isn't that what a pre-order is?


And Frizz, I do love me some Kool-Aid

[Gatt]

I guess it's time for me to add fuel to the fire and tell my whole story,  I don't have a KLOV account so perhaps some kind soul could cross-post this so those members can read it too since it's now extremely relevant?

On roughly Dec 29th 2009 I ordered a star wars yoke and USB board,  totalling around $450 with shipping.  Like many others here,  I didn't receive my items.

In mid-April 2010,  or thereabouts I go to the gas station and my card is declined.  I come home to a huge stack of insufficient funds notices in my mailbox.  I was confused,  I'd $600 in my account.  I log into my bank account and find...

...Ramcontrols had charged me again for the items,  and then put through a third charge the next day.  They charged me $900 in two days in April for something I paid for in December.

I contacted them immediately via e-mail,  and received a response just a couple hours later...

Ryan,
 
Can you give me the last four digits of the credit card in question?  Those dates coincide when we were working on the shopping cart system, so this sounds like something we may have inadvertently caused.  Please get back to me as soon as possible so I may correct it.
 
Thank you for your time and please accept my apologies for the situation.
 
Dave

It's important to note at this point,  I've a degree in computer science.  I know he can simply look up in his records when my name was charged,  he doesn't require the last 4 digits of my card to look up the transaction,  he would have had listed 3 sets of the items to be delivered.  Not only that,  but it would be *extremely* odd for an update to the shopping cart system to suddenly choose just one single charge and repeat it,  two days in a row,  4 months after the charges were entered.  Https is a non-state based system,  my data should've been flushed right after commiting.  Not suddenly reappearing as a new entry 4 months later.  It's possible he chose to use my information to test two days in a row,  but who in their right mind would use a customer's valid information to test their system?  

The next day I go to the bank,  get some runaround about the now -$900 my account is at between his extra charges and the crap ton of ISF notices.  I end up disputing the charges,  and get my money back for the April debacle.

Mind you,  at this point,  none of you can get him to respond to your emails,  despite my being late in the queue for yokes,  I get mine about 6 weeks later.

Personally,  I think people who have dealt with Dave may want to take a few minutes to review their transation history around the month of April 2010.

[shilmover]

I'd like to see a list of OUR members who still have outstanding orders I know there are a few, but have no idea many, my hunch is that there are not that many

Are you freaking kidding me?!?

OK.  How's this?!?!  I'm one of "OUT" members and I still have outstanding orders...  in the order of $500 cash and around $800 worth of parts...  and no I did not pre-order anything from him.  

Anyway, what freaking difference does it make how many of "OUR" members are owed?

I have supported Dave.  I even loaned money to finish the Yokes as I believed in him.  He screwed me...  "a friend" just like everyone else...

Attitudes like yours really, really piss me off!

[Xiaou2]

I have a feeling that Dave was trying to stockpile cash in order to get large projects funded.  However, this just isnt the correct way to do things... even if it was well intended.

 Dave, unlike the SlickStick dude, seems to be very professional and knowledgeable.  I wouldnt expect such a person so rip people off, as that could wreck their reputation, and cause them big trouble getting a nice paying job in the future.

 I could be wrong...

 Then again, maybe this guy is just way too scatterbrained to manage stuff like this.  Maybe in huge debt, and no clue about how to get out of it...

 Very sad.

[leapinlew]

Attitudes like yours really, really piss me off!

Geez, chill out. I would also like to know how many BYOAC members are out since BYOAC is the only arcade forum I visit regularly. It would give some of us more perspective.

[rockin_rick]

I am also a KLOV member and have been following along and participating over there.  I am one of the people that Dave has screwed over.  It was actually a BST thread on THIS forum that he got me.  Here is the thread, but he deleted his post not long afterwards.... http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=89824


I sent him a money order for $580 for the parts in this post, which were a Williams boardset lot, plus some other parts.  They never showed up.  He claimed that USPS lost them, but they were insured.  He claimed that he filed insurance claims, to which I checked and he didn't.  Another KLOV user (BYOAC too?), Powermeup, actually bought the lot.  Dave led me on for a long time, and eventually we agreed that he'd send me some parts and owe me a $450 refund.  I did receive those few parts, but was still owed $450.  That was a long ordeal, to which it was never completed.  He claimed how he was using Kalan's PayPal account, and that he would PP the refund to me, but excuses, and more excuses.  I gave up hope for a while.  This was the time when he was loved for giving away freebies, I didn't think I'd get much sympathy. Then I saw the posts on KLOV about how LOTS of people were in the same situation as me.  I contacted Dave, and offered to accept 'store credit' in hopes of actually getting something.  He quickly responded and offered me a 2 for 1 deal, meaning that I'd get $900 of store credit.  Cool, I thought.  I placed the order, and nothing.  Nothing.  He might as well offered me 10x store credit, since he wasn't going to fulfill it anyway.  It's been two months since that now, and still nothing.

I've filed Mail fraud charges online for this, as it is applicable since the mail was used during part of the transaction (me mailing him the money order).  If you have an outstanding deal with Dave/Ram Controls and used the mail, please file mail fraud charges at: https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/mailfraudcomplaint.aspx

I really hope that no one else gets taken by Dave.  I can't imagine someone doing any deals with him, regardless of how much they want his products.  It's not worth it.

Rick

[shilmover]

I have a feeling that Dave was trying to stockpile cash in order to get large projects funded.  However, this just isnt the correct way to do things... even if it was well intended.

 Dave, unlike the SlickStick dude, seems to be very professional and knowledgeable.  I wouldnt expect such a person so rip people off, as that could wreck their reputation, and cause them big trouble getting a nice paying job in the future.

I could be wrong...

---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---!  This is now criminal.  To collect $ from people for an arcade cabinet that was never reproed and then tell them that they have shipped and that the shipping company went out of business?!?  That's well intended?  I know this first hand as I know 2 people personally that sent him over $2500 each and were told repeatedly that the cab was shipped.  Heck, Dave told me on the phone that he shipped them!

Geez, chill out. I would also like to know how many BYOAC members are out since BYOAC is the only arcade forum I visit regularly. It would give some of us more perspective.

I will not chill out.  What freaking difference does it make how manyu BYOAC members are affected?  Go to the spreadsheet and take a look!

[CheffoJeffo]

Attitudes like yours really, really piss me off!

Geez, chill out. I would also like to know how many BYOAC members are out since BYOAC is the only arcade forum I visit regularly. It would give some of us more perspective.

I think his statement is fair.

For my part, I see at least 6 BYOACers on the list and know of two more that had to chargeback on their credit cards. There are others who had money refunded by Dave and still others who haven't had their names added to the list.

Further, I think the calibre of the people on the list (and some who have charged back, but aren't on the list) speaks volumes. MAMErs may not know about some of the folks on that list, but I was shocked to see some CoinOp greats who don't post here and folks like Channel and RetroActive, who have been great contributors here and elsewhere ...

Chad and Mamemaster I could overlook, but Dave has gone too far ... Or is it not far enough ? 

 

Edit: rockinrick is one of those 6 members that I mention. You might not know him, but I have owed him an apology at least once before, so he definitely counts as a BYOACer!   

[pinballwizard79]

Whoa a BYOAC peer stole from you? Damn thats really eff'd up.

[leapinlew]

Geez, chill out. I would also like to know how many BYOAC members are out since BYOAC is the only arcade forum I visit regularly. It would give some of us more perspective.

I will not chill out.  What freaking difference does it make how manyu BYOAC members are affected?  Go to the spreadsheet and take a look!

By all means, keep being a spaz. Lot of good it's doing.

[Gray_Area]

I have supported Dave.  I even loaned money to finish the Yokes as I believed in him.  He screwed me...  "a friend" just like everyone else...

What do you mean you loaned him money? I don't recall hearing of this before.

[channelmaniac]

There are others who had money refunded by Dave and still others who haven't had their names added to the list.

Thanks CJ,

I'm one of the ones that had money refunded - not by Dave, but by PayPal. I filed at day 42 (or was it 43?) of not receiving the IC chips I paid for and PayPal gave me a summary judgment after hearing nothing from Dave.

It really sucks since Dave had some parts I really wanted and needed. But, at least PP gave me my $1500 back.

RJ

[isucamper]

Man, this all sounds like Bernie Madoff and his pyramid scheme.  For years he builds this reputation of building great parts; maybe he's a little loose with coming through on the orders but he's always visible and always making promises to make up for it, just enough so that everyone is kept on the line and in anticipation of his next big item.

Then, at the cusp of it all, he offers something ridiculous with a humongous price tage, a fully reprode Star Wars machine, something he could never, ever come through on, but he's maintained just enough of a reputation that the pre orders roll in, and then he just freaking disappears. 

I hate to add fuel to the fire but this whole star wars thing, it seems like it could have been the coup de grace of a premeditated, 5 year long scam on all of us.  Hope this all gets resolved.

[shilmover]

I have supported Dave.  I even loaned money to finish the Yokes as I believed in him.  He screwed me...  "a friend" just like everyone else...

What do you mean you loaned him money? I don't recall hearing of this before.

That's because I had no reason to make it public... I loaned him some money that he needed to complete the Yokes project.  I loaned it to him for "a month or two".  it was several months later before i started getting some money back from him.  While I got most of it back, I still have a bunch of $ and parts owed that I fear I will never see.

[LeedsFan]

Aren't people who pay by PayPal or credit card covered if they receive no goods? I know here in the UK we are covered on credit card if something like a holiday company goes bust etc.etc. but I've never been in a situation where I've had to make a claim like that.

I think people have every right to be angry about this. Asking for people to calm down also does no good either. The forums are here for a reason and if people want to voice their opinion... no matter how angry they are... then they should do so.

Having said that I'm one of the very lucky people who ordered a yoke in November and got one delivered to the UK in double quick time. Having seen the quality at first hand I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it is a tremendous shame to lose such a vendor from this hobby. That statement is based purely on the quality of the goods of course. If people get ripped off then they have every right to shout about it.

[Gatt]

Aren't people who pay by PayPal or credit card covered if they receive no goods? I know here in the UK we are covered on credit card if something like a holiday company goes bust etc.etc. but I've never been in a situation where I've had to make a claim like that.

There's a time limit on disputing charges.  If you don't dispute within that timeframe the transaction is set in stone.  So one could theorize that the delaying tactics were intended to push the majority of charges outside of that timeframe making them ineligible.

[channelmaniac]

It's gotten so crazy with different people filing lawsuits and criminal complaints that the Admin over on the KLOV forums created a whole subsection in the feedback area to deal with RAM Controls.

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=174442

And it's viewable by anyone, even those not logged in so that Google will crawl and index it. This should help folks that Google for his business.

[channelmaniac]

They've got the important threads locked down so you can't read them... so....

 

Don't bother with paypal disputes.  Contact your bank or credit card company.  You have 120 days.

Odd, I can read all the thread in that section. Are you logged in as a user?

[RayB]

Aren't people who pay by PayPal or credit card covered if they receive no goods? I know here in the UK we are covered on credit card if something like a holiday company goes bust etc.etc. but I've never been in a situation where I've had to make a claim like that.

If it were a common commercial good, you'd file a dispute and get what you wanted from another vendor. Here, we're talking about items not available anywhere else on the planet. So people are going to be [have been] more lenient on delays.

[ChadTower]

Aren't people who pay by PayPal or credit card covered if they receive no goods? I know here in the UK we are covered on credit card if something like a holiday company goes bust etc.etc. but I've never been in a situation where I've had to make a claim like that.

If it were a common commercial good, you'd file a dispute and get what you wanted from another vendor. Here, we're talking about items not available anywhere else on the planet. So people are going to be [have been] more lenient on delays.

This is why he always uses preorders, too.  Expected delivery dates will always push it out beyond the 30 day Paypal dispute limit.

[ids]

spreadsheet does not seem to be growing (and there is a duplicate)

Curious what a spreadsheet of shipped orders would look like.  Sorry, not trying to fan the flames, troll, or minimize the losses of those in limbo.  But some of us did get our stuff, and it is quality stuff at that.  I would like to see a positive resolution to all this asap.  For those waiting, I hope you can get a refund, or the goods.

[Gray_Area]

What do you mean you loaned him money? I don't recall hearing of this before.

That's because I had no reason to make it public... I loaned him some money that he needed to complete the Yokes project.  I loaned it to him for "a month or two".  it was several months later before i started getting some money back from him.  While I got most of it back, I still have a bunch of $ and parts owed that I fear I will never see.

I think knowing Dave needed money for anything would've kept a lot of people from ordering. So now you got stuck with some of the same the others have gotten stuck.

[shrunkenmaster]

Even though I've read all about the ongoing dramas with Ram Controls, I decided to order a Star Wars USB Interface to see what happens. Before anyone calls me a total idiot, I am aware that I may never receive the product, but I will claim a refund through PayPal/Credit Card if I don't hear anything after 30 days.

Anyway, here's the interesting part - check the image below. Ram Control's email address? Seems like the boys have moved in already. If so, it's very naughty that they're still taking orders.