Current U.S.A. CRT Arcade Monitor Availability

[MPH]

I am posting this in the interest of current CRT availability. This is all regarding U.S.A. availability and relates to new products only which can currently be purchased retail in the U.S.

I've been conducting some current research on acquiring a new CRT arcade monitor. I wanted at least a tri-sync (CGA/EGA/VGA), preferably a quad with SVGA, and 25"-29", 4:3 aspect ratio. So far, my research indicates that there are only THREE model tri-sync monitors still in production (and possibly only TWO). The Quad and Penta CRT's are long gone. If you are fortunate to have one, don't ever get rid of it.

The Tri-sync CRT's are nearly out of production - period (see details below). If you have ever contemplated purchasing a real CRT arcade monitor, I strongly suggest you buy one now (that's my personal advice, I have no vested interest in your decision either way).


Research Findings

So here is what I have found so far. BTW, these are all FLAT tubes. There are no more curved tubes available anywhere.

Betson: None. No longer producing the CGA/EGA/VGA monitors. They sold out of all remaining inventory last month.

Billabs (Wei Ya): Has stopped producing the larger CRT's. Some 24.8" (25") tri-sync CRT's ARE available now ($ 350). I am not sure if these are still in production or not (waiting on word of that from Billabs HQ). They do still have some 19" SVGA versions, but that's it (and from what I can tell they are SVGA/XGA only). Everything else is now LCD. BTW, their website is awful. Totally useless except for the contact info, but their customer service is very good (when you can get in touch with them).

Ceronix: LCD versions only.

Happ: They don't make their own monitors. These are typically Vision Pro from what I have gathered.

MakVision: So far, the ONLY manufacturer still actively producing tri-sync CRT's (24.8" and 27/29"), and I'm not sure how much longer this will be the case. Cost is $ 365 / $ 420 respectively (Happ's website).

Neiman: I corresponded with Rick recently. Neiman's LAST batch of CRT's was recently sold to Shaffer Distributing. Neiman is sending them over in batches of 10 (receiving next week). They are 27" non-digital tri-sync. They will not accept SVGA.

Vision Pro: LCD only.

Wells-Gardner: Documented much elsewhere on BYOAC. Stopped making CRT's awhile ago.


Summary by type/size:

25" CRT Tri-Sync: Your choices are Billabs (1 model), MakVision (1 model); you need to contact Billabs by phone/email to get one; MakVision can be ordered online, such as here: http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49305600.htm)

27"/29" CRT Tri-Sync: Your only choice is MakVision (1 model; link: http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49271500.htm); though for a limited time you can get one of the very last batch of Nieman CRT displays (but Note they are NOT digital, though they are tri-sync). If you want one of the last Nieman's, contact Shaffer Distributing for purchasing information (614.421.6800 or 1.800.282.0194).


If anyone else has any relevant comments or especially information to add to this post, please advise. In particular I'd like to know of any other reputable manufacturers of CRT arcade monitors who are still producing them and/or have inventory available right now. Please indicate the country where such product is sold, so that BYOAC members will know which comments are relevant to them.

[leapinlew]

Very cool. Thanks for the info. What stinks is, I wanted a 19" CRT as a spare, and I waited too long.

I have a few computer monitors and once those die off - it'll be LCD for me. It was good while it lasted.

[mgb]

Good info, Thanks.
I'm definately holding on to my couple of CRTs

[Brian B]

Excellent summary.  I've been in the same situation (of trying to find out what is available).  To add to your post...

1) Here is the Billabs link: http://www.billabs.com/crts.htm.  It does not let you look at the specifics on the 24.8 from what I clicked on.

2) I too have been unable to find any that are CGA-SVGA.  The only choices are single sync or Tri-sync.

3) From my research Betson said they would be getting in MakVisions to replace the Korteks they no longer have.  Here is what I was sent from Andre Mak on 2/3/11:
"Hi Brian:
 
Thank you for your inquiry. Our tri-mode monitors are auto-sync and are not switchable.  Betson Imperials Parts is our distributor in the US.  By copy of this email, I would ask Richard Zayas-Bazan to ask one of your staff to get in touch with you and see if our trimode 27" is suitable for your use.
 
Thanks,
 
Andre Mak
Makvision Inc."

I did my best to contact them via email but did not receive a reply after two emails.  The best best would be to call Betson and speak to someone there.  My guess is that by this time they will know what the situation is.

4) You are using the word "non-digital" to describe the Nieman displays.  As I understand it this means that they do not have memories for different resolutions and would possibly require repeated adjustment depending on the scan rate.  Is this what digital refers to?  Are you saying that the Makvision monitors do?  The discontinued Wells Gardner was clearly spec'd as a "digital" monitor.

Brian

[clutch]

As usual, I get in on the a##-end of everything. 

But I do have a Blast City on the way with a tri-sync in it.  Just worried about the amount of burn in it will have.

[MPH]

4) You are using the word "non-digital" to describe the Nieman displays.  As I understand it this means that they do not have memories for different resolutions and would possibly require repeated adjustment depending on the scan rate.  Is this what digital refers to?  Are you saying that the Makvision monitors do?  The discontinued Wells Gardner was clearly spec'd as a "digital" monitor.

Brian,

I'm not crystal-clear on the benefits of a "digital" tri-sync monitor. I *believe* that what you stated is correct and this is the issue (i.e. that the monitor has memories for the different resolutions). I *believe* what this means is that if you turn the monitor off and back on again, it will recall how you had the screen view and settings adjusted for each resolution. I suspect if you use the monitor only in a single resolution mode that it might recall the settings when turned on again.

Now, if someone more knowledgeable on the forum would chime in with a definitive explanation of "digital" monitors, that would be ideal. 

[clutch]

I'm guessing a monitor where you do not have to set it via jumpers.

[mgb]

A digital monitor will retain the screen geometry where the analog will need to be set for each.
also I believe only the digital would have on screen display.

To really get a proper answer, You should post the question in the monitors section

[Epyx]

I am just happy that I was able to build my first few cabs using CRT monitors...I still have both my WGD9800s. One in my current cab is set to horizontal and my other one will go into a future vertical only project.  LCD is ok with the right software/hardware tweaks but it sure isn't authentic

[ahofle]

Very cool. Thanks for the info. What stinks is, I wanted a 19" CRT as a spare, and I waited too long.

The OP is only concerned about tri-syncs.  You can still pick up regular CGA CRTs.  I got a couple from 8liners.com a couple months ago.

[ahofle]

A digital monitor will retain the screen geometry where the analog will need to be set for each.
also I believe only the digital would have on screen display.

To really get a proper answer, You should post the question in the monitors section

Yes, that means that whenever you change screen resolution drastically (like 320x240 to 640x480) you would have to readjust the pots in the back of the monitor to size the picture.  A digital monitor remembers this using an on screen menu just like your computer monitor has.

[Brian B]

So...are the Makvisions digital and have these adjustments or not?

[Jack Burton]

As a side note to this thread I want to bring up the issue of RGB>Component conversion.

Having a look at this product:  http://www.curtpalme.com/Box1020.shtm

It appears that you could pair this with whatever 15khz signal you choose and effectively transform a component capable television into an arcade monitor. 

There are plenty of those tv's in very good condition around the country, and they are usually far cheaper than a monitor.  A lot of them have curved screens.

Some of those TV's are progressive scan capable. That should also enable 31khz input.  They're nearly all flat screened though. 

I don't know if a TV could support 24khz  res modes. 

I suppose it's possible that there are even some good 27" component TV's still new in the box for sale from online retailers. 



Personally, I'm going to continue on the path I have been on.  I keep a sharp eye out for professional studio monitors like the NEC XM series, and the Sony PVM series. And I also use double refresh modes with PC monitors. 

[MPH]

As a side note to this thread I want to bring up the issue of RGB>Component conversion.

Having a look at this product:  http://www.curtpalme.com/Box1020.shtm

It appears that you could pair this with whatever 15khz signal you choose and effectively transform a component capable television into an arcade monitor.  

How would that device allow 15 kHz output? I don't see anything in the specs on that site that mention 15 khz (but perhaps I missed something). Even if it could, isn't the TV the limiting factor?

I do not understand the technical details well enough to see how this is possible. From what I recall, there is some formula related to refresh rate, # of scan lines, and what you end up with is the H-Khz rate.

How is this device supposed to help a TV user (for arcade purposes)?

[MPH]

Yes, that means that whenever you change screen resolution drastically (like 320x240 to 640x480) you would have to readjust the pots in the back of the monitor to size the picture.  A digital monitor remembers this using an on screen menu just like your computer monitor has.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Jack Burton]

As a side note to this thread I want to bring up the issue of RGB>Component conversion.

Having a look at this product:  http://www.curtpalme.com/Box1020.shtm

It appears that you could pair this with whatever 15khz signal you choose and effectively transform a component capable television into an arcade monitor.  

How would that device allow 15 kHz output? I don't see anything in the specs on that site that mention 15 khz (but perhaps I missed something). Even if it could, isn't the TV the limiting factor?

I do not understand the technical details well enough to see how this is possible. From what I recall, there is some formula related to refresh rate, # of scan lines, and what you end up with is the H-Khz rate.

How is this device supposed to help a TV user (for arcade purposes)?

It should work fine for 15khz.  It doesn't alter the resolution of the input signal, it only performs colorspace conversion.  It says on the site that the ouput resolution is the same as the input, and that should hold true for 240p or whatever you need. 

I know for a fact that some users on this forum have had success with devices like these, and there is even one made specifically for arcade purposes, the JROK: http://jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html

That first device I linked (the one on curtpalme) would usually be used for displaying RGB video from a computer, or a SCART Video source.  In many ways it's built for exactly what we need it for. 

The device helps a tv user for arcade purposes in that it transforms a TV into an arcade monitor. 

It preserves the native resolution and refresh rates, and most TV's have near or  identical color temperatures, dot pitches, screen curvatures and shadow masks to that of arcade monitors. 

Put a TV with one of these next to an arcade monitor and you will be very hard pressed to tell the difference. 

[MPH]

As a side note to this thread I want to bring up the issue of RGB>Component conversion.

Having a look at this product:  http://www.curtpalme.com/Box1020.shtm

It appears that you could pair this with whatever 15khz signal you choose and effectively transform a component capable television into an arcade monitor.  

How would that device allow 15 kHz output? I don't see anything in the specs on that site that mention 15 khz (but perhaps I missed something). Even if it could, isn't the TV the limiting factor?

I do not understand the technical details well enough to see how this is possible. From what I recall, there is some formula related to refresh rate, # of scan lines, and what you end up with is the H-Khz rate.

How is this device supposed to help a TV user (for arcade purposes)?

It should work fine for 15khz.  It doesn't alter the resolution of the input signal, it only performs colorspace conversion.  It says on the site that the ouput resolution is the same as the input, and that should hold true for 240p or whatever you need. 

I know for a fact that some users on this forum have had success with devices like these, and there is even one made specifically for arcade purposes, the JROK: http://jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html

Trying not to sound daft here, but to confirm my understanding... is the JROK meant for video output from JAMMA boards to a TV?

[BurgerKingDiamond]

As a side note to this thread I want to bring up the issue of RGB>Component conversion.

Having a look at this product:  http://www.curtpalme.com/Box1020.shtm

It appears that you could pair this with whatever 15khz signal you choose and effectively transform a component capable television into an arcade monitor.  

How would that device allow 15 kHz output? I don't see anything in the specs on that site that mention 15 khz (but perhaps I missed something). Even if it could, isn't the TV the limiting factor?

I do not understand the technical details well enough to see how this is possible. From what I recall, there is some formula related to refresh rate, # of scan lines, and what you end up with is the H-Khz rate.

How is this device supposed to help a TV user (for arcade purposes)?

It should work fine for 15khz.  It doesn't alter the resolution of the input signal, it only performs colorspace conversion.  It says on the site that the ouput resolution is the same as the input, and that should hold true for 240p or whatever you need. 

I know for a fact that some users on this forum have had success with devices like these, and there is even one made specifically for arcade purposes, the JROK: http://jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html

That first device I linked (the one on curtpalme) would usually be used for displaying RGB video from a computer, or a SCART Video source.  In many ways it's built for exactly what we need it for. 

The device helps a tv user for arcade purposes in that it transforms a TV into an arcade monitor. 

It preserves the native resolution and refresh rates, and most TV's have near or  identical color temperatures, dot pitches, screen curvatures and shadow masks to that of arcade monitors. 

Put a TV with one of these next to an arcade monitor and you will be very hard pressed to tell the difference. 

I have a similar (much cheaper) product that converts JAMMA vid out to NTSC through s-video. It's pretty good. The red's seem to be a little oversaturated, but it's a minor complaint.

The only major problem is that certain PCB's will not work with it. Specifically boards that have a vertical sync rate much lower than 60 Hz. Some Seibu and Toaplan boards have sync rates around 54 Hz, and the picture just scrolls. Even going into the hidden service menu on my TV wasn't able to alleviate the problem. However, all my boards that sync at 60 Hz or at least close to that work very well. This product my be worth the extra money since component out would be a higher quality picture than S-video. And CRT's are dirt cheap nowadays at my local Pawnshop. I got a 27" set with s-video/component that I have my Jamma boards connected to with S-video, and my 360 with component. So it's kind of a Frankenstein setup, but it's definitely good enough to keep me from spending the $$$ on a realy tri-sync monitor.

[MPH]

For what it's worth, I have been using this product: http://www.svideo.com/pctocomponent.html

Sold in the U.S. by S-Video.com (and perhaps others), it is manufactured by GrandTec (http://www.grandtec.com/)

For now it is working quite well on a JVC 27" via Component video.

Pros: Cheap (< $80 shipped); Outputs to RGB, S-Video, Component, or Composite; OSD screen adjustments (e.g. vert/horiz. size and position); saves vert/hor screen position even after power off / un-plugging; comes with all cables (even VGA to PC, with Y-connector to also send video to a PC monitor or other device); remote control; powered by your choice of PS/2, USB, or wall wart (5v DC).

Cons: Only biggie so far (and it is a biggie to me) is the power must be left on all the time. The device is not capable of auto-power on when it receives power (e.g. hooked up to a Smart plug that turns on appliances when a PC is turned on). So, I have mine plugged into an always-on 24/7 power outlet. That being said, it's still a P.I.T.A. when there's been a power failure, a brief brown-out, etc. Sort of like having to reset your oven clock all the time if you live in area where such things are relatively frequent (as do I).

So, I'm still searching for a better solution (namely one that can be cycled on automagically when power is applied versus having to press a button).

Here is the manufacturer's page: http://www.grandtec.com/products/video/xppro.html

[Jack Burton]

As long as that converter doesn't try to change the resolution of the input signal it looks like a good choice.  Have you tried pairing it with a 15khz signal?

@Burgerkingdiamond: Were those out of sync messages on a CRT?  The cause of this is certainly the digital video processor refusing to display the signal, and not a limitation of the actual CRT.  I wonder if you tried it on an older television with less advanced video processing what would happen?  I'm also assuming that you tried adjusting the vertical hold of your TV.

[Gray_Area]

Very cool. Thanks for the info. What stinks is, I wanted a 19" CRT as a spare, and I waited too long.

I have a few computer monitors and once those die off - it'll be LCD for me. It was good while it lasted.

If you're looking for a CGA 19", just yesterday I saw some NIB for under $200 on ebay.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I own a Betson 27" tri sync and I'm also using a 22" Mitsubishi for my vertical machine.  I lucked out and found a guy who was selling his old Mitsubishi CRTs which supported 15KHZ.  They work great for arcade purposes!

Here's my original post when I first got them.  Since then I've gotten them to work great!

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=95984.msg1010655#msg1010655

DeLuSioNaL29

[BurgerKingDiamond]

As long as that converter doesn't try to change the resolution of the input signal it looks like a good choice.  Have you tried pairing it with a 15khz signal?

@Burgerkingdiamond: Were those out of sync messages on a CRT?  The cause of this is certainly the digital video processor refusing to display the signal, and not a limitation of the actual CRT.  I wonder if you tried it on an older television with less advanced video processing what would happen?  I'm also assuming that you tried adjusting the vertical hold of your TV.

I know that it's not the CRT's limitation. It's within the chassis and all the electronics. I was told elsewhere that the NTSC standard sync rate is 60Hz and that's why my board wouldn't stop scrolling. I looked it up and it synced @ 54Hz. I did adjust the vertical hold but it couldn't work it out. I think it's too much of a difference. I have some that aren't 60Hz but closer to 60 and they can be adjusted to work fine.

[Jack Burton]

I see that you siad it wouldn't stop scrolling, not out of sync messages.  I was thinking of a different thread on here where a user had that problem.  He actually had the fortune of his LCD TV accepting 15khz resolutions without any issues.  Of course they were scaled up to fit the tv.

It would be great  if in the future LCD tv makers just added the ability to accept 15khz and scale it up to 1920x1080p.  It might not be native res, but it would certainly be useful to replace a faulty monitor in a pinch.  

It would be nice to have a list of such monitors that exist.  Kinda beyond my range of interest though.  

[MPH]

As long as that converter doesn't try to change the resolution of the input signal it looks like a good choice.  Have you tried pairing it with a 15khz signal?

No, I have not. Per the manual, the device accepts a wide range of PC video input from 60-120 Hz vertical freq and resolutions of 720x400 up to 1600x1200. I'll have to try playing around with the horizontal freq if that is possible on a standard video card. I'll bet there is a thread on this board somewhere that discusses that concept.

Regardless of the PC resolution, the device scales it to fit the TV picture area. I know it is outputting to the TV at 480i.

[Yohan]

Not to get too far off topic, but it looks like going with a 16:10 pc monitor may be better than going with a 16:9 TV.  As the picture shows here: http://www.displaywars.com/27-inch-16x10-vs-27-inch-16x9 they are a bit taller and would have slightly less of a black border in games.  I believe though that 16:10 monitors are being phased in favor of 16:9.     I just ordered a 26 inch 16:10 pc monitor, new for only $169.00 shipped but I have fears that it is not going to look very big after I see it with those black bars.

[MPH]

Not to get too far off topic, but it looks like going with a 16:10 pc monitor may be better than going with a 16:9 TV.  As the picture shows here: http://www.displaywars.com/27-inch-16x10-vs-27-inch-16x9 they are a bit taller and would have slightly less of a black border in games.  I believe though that 16:10 monitors are being phased in favor of 16:9.     I just ordered a 26 inch 16:10 pc monitor, new for only $169.00 shipped but I have fears that it is not going to look very big after I see it with those black bars.

Agree with you on 16:10 versus 16:9. They are unfortunately hard to find (not impossible, but point it is they are not ubiquitous like the 16:9 variety).

I don't think you'll be bothered by the black bars if your monitor has good black contrast, unless you are very picky (which I presume you are not or you would not be using that monitor). It's not much different than having black paint or stickers on the inside of a plexi or glass bezel.

[MPH]

All,

I just got off the phone with 2 reps at Billabs. The one remaining 24.8" tri-sync CRT model they have is NOT digital. They have a bunch of them if you don't mind that (e.g. not running MAME). Incidentally, the model number is BL25C90T.

That just leaves MakVision. I'm now working to verify what they are still making and the specs.

[NoBullMAME]

All,

I just got off the phone with 2 reps at Billabs. The one remaining 24.8" tri-sync CRT model they have is NOT digital. They have a bunch of them if you don't mind that (e.g. not running MAME). Incidentally, the model number is BL25C90T.

That just leaves MakVision. I'm now working to verify what they are still making and the specs.

I have a call in with my Happs rep. Last time I spoke to him (just before the holidays), he said there was no plans to discontinue them. A couple days ago, I noticed the stock on the Hi-res was low, so I brought 6 of them even though I only have orders for 2 right now. I think, they have 2 left in stock as of this morning.

I'll post an update when I get a reply from my rep.

[MPH]

I have a call in with my Happs rep. Last time I spoke to him (just before the holidays), he said there was no plans to discontinue them. A couple days ago, I noticed the stock on the Hi-res was low, so I brought 6 of them even though I only have orders for 2 right now. I think, they have 2 left in stock as of this morning.

I'll post an update when I get a reply from my rep.

Which Happs monitor? I believe their stuff is either MakVision, Waiya, or Vision Pro (depending on the model).

BTW, the MakVision 27/29 (29" in 27" frame flat screen) is still avail, but the only one that I have found so far is analog (non-digital) sync. I am starting to think the digital syncs are all gone as the manufacturers expect these to be used with just one mode (CGA/EGA/VGA) at a time.

Incidentally, the thought occurred to me earlier today that it might not be so bad to use a VGA or SVGA arcade monitor for MAME and just resign myself to software resolution manipulation. At least I would not have to worry about the screen being offset improperly as is the potential with a non-digital monitor.

[NoBullMAME]

This one here: http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49271700.htm (Yes, it's the Makvision 27/29")

Note: Though the specs says it supports 1024x768 it only does so at some refresh rates. I haven't heard back yet, but I'm guessing this model isn't discontinued.

I have a call in with my Happs rep. Last time I spoke to him (just before the holidays), he said there was no plans to discontinue them. A couple days ago, I noticed the stock on the Hi-res was low, so I brought 6 of them even though I only have orders for 2 right now. I think, they have 2 left in stock as of this morning.

I'll post an update when I get a reply from my rep.

Which Happs monitor? I believe their stuff is either MakVision, Waiya, or Vision Pro (depending on the model).

BTW, the MakVision 27/29 (29" in 27" frame flat screen) is still avail, but the only one that I have found so far is analog (non-digital) sync. I am starting to think the digital syncs are all gone as the manufacturers expect these to be used with just one mode (CGA/EGA/VGA) at a time.

Incidentally, the thought occurred to me earlier today that it might not be so bad to use a VGA or SVGA arcade monitor for MAME and just resign myself to software resolution manipulation. At least I would not have to worry about the screen being offset improperly as is the potential with a non-digital monitor.

[MPH]

This one here: http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49271700.htm (Yes, it's the Makvision 27/29")

Note: Though the specs says it supports 1024x768 it only does so at some refresh rates. I haven't heard back yet, but I'm guessing this model isn't discontinued.

Correct. I spoke with a different MakVision dealer today and so far no word from MakVision that it is being discontinued. Same with their 800x600 resolution version.

I have been considering this model: http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49271500.htm, however at 640x480 resolution I almost might as well keep using TV's.  

I am not 100% sure atm, but I suspect that although this unit is advertised as "tri-mode," that it actually just upscales everything to 640x480. On the plus side though it will do 15khz.

[DNA Dan]

You guys are making me want to    I have been on the sidelines from building my own cabinet for about 10 years now. Just recently I became engaged in it again and the current status of things is just disappointing. This is definitely the end of an era and I just want to take this moment to thank everyone who conceived and ever worked on project MAME. Politics aside, I admire everyone who gave their time and energy all for the realization that someday this day would come. I am grateful for their vision in preserving these games.

Now back to the topic at hand, what about the Raw Thrills monitor Betson is advertising on it's site still? Is this not available?  You can put it in your cart and still buy it. What gives?

[Brian B]

This one here: http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49271700.htm (Yes, it's the Makvision 27/29")

Note: Though the specs says it supports 1024x768 it only does so at some refresh rates. I haven't heard back yet, but I'm guessing this model isn't discontinued.

Correct. I spoke with a different MakVision dealer today and so far no word from MakVision that it is being discontinued. Same with their 800x600 resolution version.

I have been considering this model: http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49271500.htm, however at 640x480 resolution I almost might as well keep using TV's.  

I am not 100% sure atm, but I suspect that although this unit is advertised as "tri-mode," that it actually just upscales everything to 640x480. On the plus side though it will do 15khz.

I was told that these models have an OSD board (digital).  I guess the question is whether these are installed in the models that Happ or Betson sells.

B.

[MonMotha]

The schematics suggest that the low res monitor (15-31kHz) is an analog monitor with potentiometer adjustments while the high res (30-50kHz) monitor is digital and has OSD adjustments.  Very different designs.

You could run the low res monitor at 1024x768 (or even 1280x960) for graphical stuff like frontends or desktops if you interlace it, but it'll be a bit flickery as interlace always is.  You could also run it at native standard res (15kHz) timings, but you'll have to consider that if you use native timings for each game, every game will probably require some adjustment to make it "perfect".

VGA (640x480 progressive) looks pretty beautiful on a good coarse dot pitch tube, even at large sizes.  The high res monitor can run up to 1024x768, but I question how much detail it would be able to resolve above 800x600.  It does have a smaller dot pitch than the low res one, so who knows.  Almost no arcade games (only very modern ones) run at anything higher than 640x480.

[DNA Dan]

On these last remaining analog monitor options for multisync, just how bad are the adjustments? I mean are we talking one game fitting the screen then another is off 1-2cm? or is this like black bars on the sides like 2-3 inches?

[MonMotha]

On these last remaining analog monitor options for multisync, just how bad are the adjustments? I mean are we talking one game fitting the screen then another is off 1-2cm? or is this like black bars on the sides like 2-3 inches?

That will depend on the games you're switching between.  It can be as bad as several inches (either black bars or the image extending off the screen, depending on which way you go), but it's usually not quite that bad in my experience switching actual game boards.  It is in theory possible to pad everything while maintaining game-native timings such that only minor, if any, adjustments are required, but I don't think MAME supports this fully.

[DNA Dan]

Thanks for the info. It seems this is okay for a dedicated cab but not for a MAME cab. Those adjustments are not really meant to be constantly tweaked on those boards. I think I may have to just go the non-native route and use hardware stretching. From what I understand both x-arcade and mameroom are using higher res and stretching in their builds. Just seems like the best way to go for a multiple game cab. The only digital multisync I can find is the raw thrills one at Betson. It shows available online, but the OP mentioned they already sold out. If that is the case then that's just wrong!

[Brian B]

The schematics suggest that the low res monitor (15-31kHz) is an analog monitor with potentiometer adjustments while the high res (30-50kHz) monitor is digital and has OSD adjustments.  Very different designs.

You could run the low res monitor at 1024x768 (or even 1280x960) for graphical stuff like frontends or desktops if you interlace it, but it'll be a bit flickery as interlace always is.  You could also run it at native standard res (15kHz) timings, but you'll have to consider that if you use native timings for each game, every game will probably require some adjustment to make it "perfect".

VGA (640x480 progressive) looks pretty beautiful on a good coarse dot pitch tube, even at large sizes.  The high res monitor can run up to 1024x768, but I question how much detail it would be able to resolve above 800x600.  It does have a smaller dot pitch than the low res one, so who knows.  Almost no arcade games (only very modern ones) run at anything higher than 640x480.

So, MonMotha, I take it that your suggestion is to get the tri-sync monitor but set the computer to output 480p and leave it at that?

This one: http://www.happ.com/monitors/49271500.htm (MakVision)

or: http://niemandisplays.com/nieman_video_displays_007.htm (Nieman)

Is that the best option unless there is a model that is digital and can display <30kHz signals, i.e. 15kHz?

Thanks much for your input!


Brian

[MonMotha]

So, MonMotha, I take it that your suggestion is to get the tri-sync monitor but set the computer to output 480p and leave it at that?

I dunno.  I don't run MAME.  I just use these things with several different game boards of varying vintages.

If you run a small subset of games, you may be able to get things set up so that everything is at least acceptable.  Very few arcade machines have perfectly adjusted monitors "in the wild", anyway.  Consider it added authenticity if things aren't quite perfect

If you want to run everything MAME is capable of emulating and then some, you'll probably be unable to get things adjusted to your liking.  Then again, even the digital monitors have limited memories (and they can only tell the difference by scanrates, anyway, so some games with different offsets will be indistinguishable to the monitor in terms of setting recall), so you'd probably have to do some adjusting, still.  Even if everything remembered everything perfectly, you'd still have to set up every...darned...game.

Certainly just setting the thing to 480p and leaving it (stretching your emulated games) would be the easiest option.  It'll still look nicer than a PC monitor as the tubes are totally different.  You'll just lose some of the scanlines on 240p games.  480i stuff will look about the same just less flickery and a little brighter.

Note that BOTH models are capable of 480p VGA.  However, one can only go lower, while the other can only go higher.