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leapinlew:

--- Quote from: ChadTower on February 04, 2011, 11:14:38 am ---Also, drives me insane when someone says "sorry, not my thing" rather than "don't know that, give me a couple extra days to study it and I'll figure it out".  

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While I appreciate someone giving 100%, I also appreciate someone not wasting my time. I think people knowing where they are strong and where they aren't is a skill most people don't have. Most people believe they can do anything given enough resources and the truth is anything but. "Not my thing" isn't the best way to phrase it, but it's true. Some people will only be good at basic computer tech services. Trying to get a windows tier 1 helpdesk support person to design a global linux mail farm isn't "their thing" and someone needs to say it.


--- Quote from: ChadTower on February 04, 2011, 11:14:38 am ---My experience hiring local people with certificates isn't that they do not know what they are supposed to know.  It's that they don't understand what they are supposed to know.  They can do exactly what they were taught in that class - by rote process.  They usually cannot take knowledge gained from that and apply it to similar situations or extrapolate it themselves to more advanced situations.  I have been told more than once something like "I am certified in X, not Y, so I can't do that" even when Y is really the same thing as X but a slightly different flavor.
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Do you think a person like the one you just described would be any different had they attended college? I don't. The trait of knowing how to apply knowledge to different scenarios isn't common and it certainly doesn't only exist in people with certifications. It's what separates the good IT folks from the poor.

FWIW, I see the same prejudice towards college grads. I think it has more to do with the IT career field since it is filled with people without a diploma or certificates. They are anxious to prove that you don't need any type of education to be a good network admin, developer, etc. Hence you end up with all these "Certification sucks" and "College kids don't know jack" statements.

MonMotha:

--- Quote from: ChadTower on February 04, 2011, 11:14:38 am ---Also, drives me insane when someone says "sorry, not my thing" rather than "don't know that, give me a couple extra days to study it and I'll figure it out".  Personal issue.  I guess what  I'm saying is that the guy with a degree is trained in the concepts, not the technology, and conceptual knowledge is better.  I have never seen someone fresh out of the military, no matter how green, say anything other than "I'll find a way to get it done".  Nine times out of ten they do and on that tenth time they will let you know early in the process what else they need.

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This one depends a little on how close the given "thing" is to something that is "their thing".  For example, I am routinely asked to do enclosure related work as part of electronic design (i.e. "put that PCB, display, connectors, etc. into a box so I can sell it").  I can certainly do some of that, and I'll draw up specs and such to give to an enclosure person or look for an off-the-shelf box any time, but designing tooling for plastic injection molding or doing 3D mechanical details for metal stamping isn't really "my thing".  If you REALLY wanted me to do it, I could go learn how to do it (I'm somewhat familiar with the process), and I can usually take on fairly simple boxes myself, but when I say it's not "my thing", I'm attempting to imply that you'd likely be better economically served if you were to find someone who is already skilled in that field.  It's a field unto itself, after all.

You COULD hire a plumber to put a roof on your house, and a skilled plumber could probably figure it out and, given enough time/resources to learn and practice, put a perfectly serviceable roof on your house...or you could call a roofer.

ChadTower:

--- Quote from: leapinlew on February 04, 2011, 11:52:29 am ---Trying to get a windows tier 1 helpdesk support person to design a global linux mail farm isn't "their thing" and someone needs to say it.
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Tier 1 helpdesk people are $10/hr phone jockeys.  They don't have IT certs.  I'm talking more like "I am trained in Weblogic, not Tomcat, so don't assign me any apps that might go into Tomcat".  "No, I can't help debug that issue - it's on an AIX box.  I'm a UNIX admin."  



--- Quote from: leapinlew on February 04, 2011, 11:52:29 am ---Do you think a person like the one you just described would be any different had they attended college? I don't. The trait of knowing how to apply knowledge to different scenarios isn't common and it certainly doesn't only exist in people with certifications. It's what separates the good IT folks from the poor.
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I fully agree.  And I'm not talking IT, really, but in general.  My experience is that people who can do that come from longer foundation based training because that's their nature.  



--- Quote ---FWIW, I see the same prejudice towards college grads. I think it has more to do with the IT career field since it is filled with people without a diploma or certificates. They are anxious to prove that you don't need any type of education to be a good network admin, developer, etc. Hence you end up with all these "Certification sucks" and "College kids don't know jack" statements.

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I work a lot closer to app development than raw IT.  That is probably a key difference here.  

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