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Author Topic: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)  (Read 27246 times)

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britinva

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BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« on: January 30, 2011, 06:56:13 pm »
So here I am, about to start my first MAME project (hope I’m in the right area of forum). I say first as I know these things have a way of never ending….. just like Home Theatres, which I completed phase 1 a few years back and now getting the itch to upgrade  ;D. You can see that project if you want over at AVS Forums - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655800.

Anyway enough of the digressing.

As this is my first MAME, and so no experience, I’m going to ‘try’ the Project Arcade II. I have the new 2nd Edition book and been doing some reading.

I have a old Windows XP, 1.3Ghz Celeron processor & 512Mb RAM PC which think should work out OK. I also have a choice of either a Sony WEGA 25” Flat Screen CRT (KV-XA25M80) or a Panasonic 21” CRT (PV-C2021) TV.



The Sony has component, SVGA & VGA outs whereas the Panasonic only has VGA out.



I think the Sony is best suited but concerned that the width of the TV (25˝”W 20"D 20"H) might be too much. Any opinions? Or should I look out for a better suited CRT on Craigslist/FreeCycle?

Initially was thinking just a 2 player MAME but see that the PAII is 4 player it might work out better if I go with the wider Sony.

Still got some research to do but if you help me decide on the TV that will be a big help to me.

Thanks,
Mark
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 10:11:37 pm by britinva »

emphatic

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Re: BritiVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 07:09:20 pm »
25" is great. I have 29" on both my cabinets.

mgb

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Re: BritiVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 09:08:26 pm »
I think you'd definately be best off with the Sony.
Use the component inputs. Though you will need some sort of vga to component converter (Jrok)
Just a small correction.
It looks like the Sony has Component, S-video (aka svhs) and composite inputs.
And the panasonic probably just has composite inputs.
(Just correcting you so that you don't order the wrong cables, etc.)

I don't think you'll have any problem fitting that 25" tv as long as you plan for it in the size of your cabinet.

you've come to the right place for answers. keep searching the forums and ask questions.
good luck.

dugg8

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Re: BritiVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2011, 09:45:40 pm »
Thats the same sony tv I just bought this past weekend. Trying to get it to run with component....

BlasterMaster

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Re: BritiVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2011, 10:11:09 pm »
Older ATI Radeon video cards have component video outputs and are cheap to buy, I have used them to stream video to component video enable TVs and the video quality is great, Also used with emulators for games I have not tried with MAME though. Also you can get DVI to component video adapters for cheap.

Correction ATI is now AMD.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 10:23:50 pm by BlasterMaster »

britinva

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Re: BritiVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 10:03:31 am »
mgb - thanks was having a brain fart when listing the inputs  :o

I think I'll go with the 25" Sony then. To start with I'll likely use the s-video as the PC already has a RADEON card with s-video out.

My only concern is the Sony is 20" deep...... didn't see anything in the book or plans for the max depth TV can use. Using ruler & scaling looks like 22" but then got to take into account the back (M - 5/8"), bezel mounts (O & P - 1") and the bezel itself (5/8"). So lose 2 1/4" in the depth.

I guess I can use thinner material for M and make unit a little wider so TV is flush with front on O & P. Or tweak design for grater depth (but that could complicate many other panels  :-\ )

Anyone out there that can confirm the depth between the back edged of O and the rear panel M?

Or should I post this Q in the Project Arcade book forum?

Thanks,
Mark
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 03:42:21 pm by britinva »

britinva

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Re: BritiVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 07:58:06 pm »
Anyone out there that can confirm the depth between the back edged of O and the rear panel M?
For anyone interested these are supposed to be the max measurements  of the TV area (another forum member got them from a CyberTech rep).

Width - 27"
Height - 24.5"
Deep - 20.5"

Looks like I'll be OK with my Sony and can probably squeeze extra 1/2" with modifications to M, O & P if needed (or leave back off.).

Not sure why width is max 27" as thought you make width what you want it to be.

Going to mull somemore plus got a few honey do's to sort out so be a few weeks before I actually start.

Cheers,
Mark

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 09:18:17 pm »
A dumb 'noob' Q probably.  :-[

How do you decide how many buttons you need on your control panel to play? I assume it varies per game so some won't use all buttons. Seems 6 buttons per player (not including admin) seems popular choice. Also how does the user know which buttons to use for the different games as I'm assuming button function changes with each game so permanent labelling not an option?

Hopefully clearing up some honey do's this weekend so construction should start next weekend, going to check what sheet material local Home Depot carries - likely will use MDF. 

Also just ordered new PC for kids so will be able to wipe and reinstall OS on old PC and start trying out different front ends - I like look of HyperSpin but doubtful from what If read the PC will be good enough (1.3Ghz Celeron processor & 512Mb RAM - at max RAM).

I'm going to go with a 2 player control panel and use colors of my football team (Tottenham Hotspurs - the away Navy/Yellow Kit).

mgb

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2011, 12:47:03 am »
The number of buttons is a preference thing.
keep searching the forums looking at others cabinets and decide what works for you. One thing I've noticed is if you look in the project annoucements section in the thread for what's hall of fame worthy, you'll see that most of those panel share one thing in common, they're simple and to the point.

Mdf is a good choice, it's what many guys use. (It is heavy though).

I can't see you being able to run hyperspin with that PC. I couldn't run it on my pentium 4 1.8ghz with 512Mb ram.

Take a look a both Mala and Atomic FE.
Mala seems to be a favorite around here.

2 player control panels are my favorite. I just feel that 4 player panels get to darn big. Besides I can't think of 3 people I really want to play games with

Panja

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 03:23:07 am »
I would go with the 25inch Sony.
I had to make the same decision recently.

I had a 21inch Sony and 25inch Panasonic.
Went with the 25inch and happy so far. The cabinet is not ready though, still building. But I'm happy with the 25inch choice.
If want to take a look and maybe get some ideas: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108378.0

Good luck with your build!

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 03:35:23 pm »
Thanks for comments.

Started work on the PC, just reinstalled XP and its all up to date with patches etc.

Was reading in Project Arcade II Book about customizing the Desktop themes - did a search on here for Desktop Themes and came accross a thread linking to: http://arcadecontrols.com/Sections/EyeCandy/eyecandy.shtml#themes

Looks like the themes and other items are for 95/98 and not XP. Is there a good resouce for gaming themes for XP?

Also has anyone already hacked the ntoskrnl.exe file with a gaming image?

I know I can do all this myself but looking for quick/easy fixes for now while I concentrate on other areas. I can always customize later.

Thanks,
Mark
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 03:45:12 pm by britinva »

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 07:20:52 pm »
Decided to go with MaLa for FE.

First time around I was sorta winging into using the Quick Install steps in the WiKi but was having issues, so now installing using a guide in the MaLa Frontend forum..... not been able to locate the Artwork and Samples files so if anyone knows where they are located appreciate some help.

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 07:07:17 pm »
Well got 99% of my outstanding Honey Do's complete so path clear to start construction next weekend - weather depending as want to be cutting MDF outside.

I'm still struggling with getting MaLa setup, I'm finding a lot of what seems outdated info and bad links. I've installed Mame/Mala and added a few ROMs - need to find out how to restrict what MaLa displays to the ROMs I've got installed. Also as don't currently have a control panel need to know how to play using a keyboard.

Is there a simpler front end for complete noobs? Or is there a member in the Northan Virginia area (I'm in Ashburn) that's willing to help get me on right tracks?

Encryptor

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 11:34:49 pm »
There is a forum here just for Mala. You may find some answers there.

Mala Forum
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=43.0

Mala Setup Thread
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=83570.0

Mala Setup Doc by UncleT
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56010.0

Encryptor

SNAAKE

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2011, 04:48:38 am »
why is everyone so rich except me :(

you got some serious home theater stuff going on there. very nice.

drventure

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2011, 07:50:29 am »
I've found mala to be the easiest of the front ends to setup.

Grab a copy of ROMLISTER to generate a few lists of specific rom files. That makes things a little easier

Then, play with mala creating lists via the front end itself. I have an "ALL GAMES" list, then a "MyFavorites" list. As I'm playing, if I come across a game that I like, it's pretty quick to use Mala to throw it in "MyFavorites".

The Mala website has lots of good info. I'm guessing you've been there, but here's the link, just in case.
http://malafe.net/

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2011, 08:41:24 am »
Encryptor - Yes, been at those locations and been using UncleT's doc but its very dated and had me chasing my tail for things that ended up now being included in MaLa. To be Honest I've not had time to properly trawl the MaLa forum & WiKi and was looking for a simple 'get up & working' doc.

SNAAKE - Thanks for complement on HT, believe me I'm by no means rich - if I was I'd be paying someone to build my MAME  ;)

drventure - will take a look at ROMLISTER, I think one of my issues is I don't know how to navigate around the front end  :-[

Looks like I need to do more reading/searching on the FE and less time planing the actual cabinet build. I might also try out Atomic FE which seems to have some nice tutorials.

Thanks everyone.

drventure

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2011, 08:58:18 am »
Yeah, The controls can be vexing at first

Have a look here.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Mala_Controls

Be sure to read down and see how you reconfigure those controls. Use the defaults while your setting things up on a normal PC, but once you get it in a can, you'll want to change the def keys to use appropriate cab controls (sticks, etc).

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2011, 09:34:18 am »
Thanks, I had printed those off but had only done some basics like scroll thru games, select game etc. Not tried menu

Once you open a game how do you know what keys operate it?

Is there a website that shows what buttons/controls you need for each game?

mgb

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2011, 11:20:45 am »
You should also give atomic fe a shot. I found it to be pretty easy for a basic setup.

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2011, 11:47:54 am »
You should also give atomic fe a shot. I found it to be pretty easy for a basic setup.

Thats my plan for this evening :)

For now I just want to see what some of the classis from my youth look/work....... can always change later.

Also any tips for best configuration of video card, the one I have is ATI RADEON 9200 and using the s-video to TV (25" Sony) and VGA to a monitor (while setting things up - easier on the eye). Should I use 640x480 or 1024x768? Assume Refresh Rate = 60Hx and 16bit colour? Anything else I shold do?

emphatic

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2011, 12:31:30 pm »
Some people go crazy with the control panels.  :dizzy: You don't need to put 20 buttons on there just because you can. If you go with 2 players (best for a MAME cabinet IMHO) I'd do this:

Players have 1 joystick and 6 buttons + start button each. That's all you need to play most games (if you don't like fighting games you will only need 3 buttons for each player).

You can map the start buttons to act as shift buttons. For example you can use this to enable frontend controls such as exit the current game (hold Player 1 start and press fire button #6). Or for "inserting coins" (hold Player 1 start and press fire button #2). Instead of cluttering up the control panel with buttons that you use 1% of the time add a nice instruction sheet, or cleverly include button instructions in your CPO.

Most multiplayer games (2+ players) are available as 2-player only versions. Like Gauntlet or TMNT for example. This way you won't need 4 different coin buttons or 4 stick setups to enable all playable characters should that be important to you.

This will leave you with more room should you want to throw a spinner or a trackball into the mix.

Donkbaca

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2011, 12:40:54 pm »
I agree with keeping the buttons at a minimum, but I don't like shift buttons.  You can get away with 6, but I think 7 is better if you like neo geo games a lot, or are a fan of MK3, because the 7th button allows the 4 buttons in a row setup for neo geo and is also where the run button would be for MK games.

I think you should have coin buttons, start buttons, and one button to exit back to the FE.  That's all you need. Shift buttons confuse people, and who reads instructions?

emphatic

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2011, 01:14:07 pm »
I agree with keeping the buttons at a minimum, but I don't like shift buttons.  You can get away with 6, but I think 7 is better if you like neo geo games a lot, or are a fan of MK3, because the 7th button allows the 4 buttons in a row setup for neo geo and is also where the run button would be for MK games.

I think you should have coin buttons, start buttons, and one button to exit back to the FE.  That's all you need. Shift buttons confuse people, and who reads instructions?

How about this:



The colors are for NEO-GEO games and the numbers are for everything else. :lol

I don't have a MAME cabinet, so I have no warm fuzzy feelings for cabinets with more than 6 buttons (as that's the maximum a REAL cabinet use). I sometimes plug a computer into one of my JAMMA cabinets and shifted buttons is all you need to play all digitally controlled games and use a frontend. I don't even need a keyboard as my frontend (GameEx) can turn off the computer even.

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2011, 01:40:37 pm »
Thanks - this is all realy helpful.

One question is it possible to play games just with the keyboard (for testing) or is the joystick a must? I'm thinking things like Asteroids, PacMan etc.

If need a joystick I'd better start planning, ordering and creating a mockup control panel now rather than later in the build.

dfmaverick

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2011, 02:01:47 pm »
I (probably we) use a keyboard all the time when not using the actual cabinet. Shouldn't be a problem with a majority of the games.

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2011, 02:10:21 pm »
replacement idea for no joystick?

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2011, 02:15:22 pm »
Thanks hopefully I'll get working later then :)

For Joysticks/buttons - is this package OK

http://cgi.ebay.com/STREET-FIGHTER-JOYSTICKS-JAMMA-ARCADE-WKS-W-MAME-TM-/380222939700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58870da234

Or am I better buying separates at somewhere like http://groovygamegear.com?

Also what keyboard encoder would be recommended - initially going to go with 2-player joysticks/buttons but may want to add trackball (maybe spinner later) if feel the need.

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2011, 02:15:33 pm »
That is the lamest thing I have ever seen!  Why wouldn't you just get a joystick?

To answer the earlier question, no you don't need a joystick to test the games, I use my keyboard to run games to see how they work on my system and to set up dip switch settings and the like.  My advice would be to build the control panel last.  Set up your front end and the games first, build your cabinet and then build your CP.  The reason for this is that once you have a CP built, its too easy to delay building everythign else and just play games :)

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2011, 02:18:26 pm »
For key encoders most people use either the key wiz from groovy game gear, an ipac from ultimarc, or they get a U360 from ultimarc that has a built in encoder for I think 8 buttons per stick.  Its all pretty much personal preference. 

That is not a bad deal from Tornado Terry, you can probably find better deals though. 

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2011, 02:22:15 pm »
Agree rather use a joystick than buttons.

Would the GP-Wiz40-Eco  or  GP-Wiz40 MAX meet my needs?

dfmaverick

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2011, 02:57:01 pm »
They probably do. Just add up you inputs (4 for a joy and 1 for a button) to make sure you have enough inputs. If you like to solder, you can go with the eco.

If you are getting the encoder from GGG, you can probably just get the same joys/buttons as the auction from GGG.

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2011, 03:08:10 pm »
Thanks - dfmaverick

A quick mockup of what I think I need.



So thats 27 inputs if counted right (allthou think on/off will be wired to PC on/off - so 26) so leaves some expansion if later want to add a trackball.

So if count is right I'll go for the GP-Wiz40 MAX

Whats feeling about button colours? Wondering if I should use the mixed colored buttons like suggested by emphatic  or keep buttons in a block colour in line with cabinet colours. Or will the different colour buttons help players?

[EDIT] another Q -  Happ or Prime Buttons?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 03:16:42 pm by britinva »

dfmaverick

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2011, 04:14:58 pm »
Trackball will not be handled by the key encoder. (Need something like an opti-wiz).

Colors? I've never been a fan of the multi colored look. However, that is all individual taste.

Can't help on the Happ/Prime. Maybe there is a review in the review forum on this board.

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2011, 05:21:02 pm »
I'm going to go with the common colour theme..... if need be I can add something to the control art if colour need.

So here is plan (not to scale & not the control panel art) - just button colour.



So does this look like correct order list
1 x KeyWiz40-ST (with Pro Wiring for up to 30 Switches)
2 x HAPP Competition Arcade Joystick - YELLOW
1 x Player 1 Pushbutton
1 x Player 2 Pushbutton
14 x Yellow Horizontal Pushbutton - HAPP
1 x Black Horizontal Pushbutton - HAPP
1 x Red Horizontal Pushbutton - HAPP
2 x White Horizontal Pushbutton - HAPP

Anything else I should include on the order?

Donkbaca

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2011, 05:23:41 pm »
Looks good as far as CP buttons and such goes!

mgb

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2011, 05:28:48 pm »
That looks pretty good.

Are you going to plan for 4-way games (pacman, etc) in which case you may want a stick that can be switched between 4 way and 8 way.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 05:32:28 pm by mgb »

Nephasth

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2011, 05:45:47 pm »
Looks like breakfast  :burgerking:

britinva

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2011, 06:08:41 pm »
Nephasth  - Yes, it does..... just needs a few rashers

mgb - just 2 player. Don't think I will want 4 player down line

dfmaverick

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Re: BritInVA's Project Arcade II attempt :)
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2011, 06:18:14 pm »
I believe mgb is referring to 4-way games like pac-man et al where it is preferrable to use a 4-way joystick rather than an 8-way. If not switchable, some add an additional 4-way joystick to the control panel.

If you look at Knievel's layout (forget the trackball and spinner), he is using two 8-ways for players one and two and uses another dedicated joystick for 4-way games up by the spinner.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=55789.0
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 06:33:22 pm by dfmaverick »