Ultracade - blow up and rebuild

[b3dr0ck]

Long story short - I wanted to start building and restoring arcade games.  I bought one, used, Ultracade, didn't really know what it was, when I got it, it was playing blind, so in trying to fix the monitor, I blew the PC motherboard and HDD.  Uhhh... found out that was a very bad thing.

So ... let me try this <pulls out a lamp> David R Foley

I've since learned that basically, if I lose the data on the HDD i'm screwed. (I've also learned not to plug random voltage into stuff - seriously)

I've rebuilt the HDD, it appears to be working now. (but its not gonna work on another motherboard)  Now I'm guessing I've got to find an identical motherboard.  I'm on that.

But can someone answer a few questions for me about what I've got in my garage now?
1. is there a way I can backup, clone, RAID (mirror) the HDD?  Ya, know in case the HDD dies.  It's not gonna last forever, it's 8yrs old (and I've already blown it once).  (From what I've read its not looking good)

There's all kinds of other stuff I could ask, but that's the crux.

Bedrock

[lilshawn]

you can re-install the software on a new motherboard and herddrive... your software will generate a different id number...you must call and give them the number and they will give you an installation code to make it work. simply changing the harddrive will generate a different ID.

i tested this and confirmed by installing on 2 identical HD's with sequential serial numbers...generated a different ID for each.

i can only assume that changing the M/B (to even the very next manufactured unit) will generate a different ID.

get a system up and working first... then call "Global VR" and give them the ID number...they do some voodo and give you and installation code to make it work. but it's a one shot deal.

read up on my post here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=107965.0

link to global:
http://service.globalvr.com/contact.asp

[b3dr0ck]

Yea I had read your post, before I started.

I have the same HDD.  I replaced the PCB with one from an identical HDD.  So I should be fine there, the physical data has not changed, it's the same HDD with a new circuit board.

I called VR Global when all of this started to go down.  The issue is they are telling me they do not have the licenses anymore to many games, and I have several games on the HDD that I might loose.  So I could get the $17 reinstall CD, and they could give me a code, but it sounds like I could loose many of the games I bought the system for.  The sounds like the last ditch effort.

(I could never confirm exactly what games I would have with the reinstall, but I know I have Street Fighter, Joust, Defender, and others that I didn't see on the site, I assume, these are no longer licensed)

So let's say hypothetically I get the HDD restored (I believe I have) back to the original state,  and I find or repair the original motherboard, and I get the system back up and running - miraculous I know, (but I operate in that generally), now what?  The arcade game will die when the HDD dies, and I'll be left with reinstalling on new hardware, and losing games.  Is there no way to backup the data?

[lilshawn]

So let's say hypothetically I get the HDD restored (I believe I have) back to the original state,  and I find or repair the original motherboard, and I get the system back up and running - miraculous I know, (but I operate in that generally), now what?

when the software boots, it performs it's hashing of the hardware to generate the system ID... if it doesn't match, it doesn't work. it's to keep people from installing on one system and then transferring it to another.

so unless you change to an identical harddrive then SWAP the controller off of the old drive (assuming it's not the problem to begin with) and retain the original board. then yes it would probably work. (because the controller has the serial number programmed into it)

but changing ANYTHING will cause the ID to change. like I mentioned before even sequentially serial numbered HD's generated different ID's even dropping in a serial card, modem, or soundcard generates a different ID.

[b3dr0ck]

well Ive got the HDD up and running with a PCB from an identical HDD - so well see.

I've got another Motherboard coming in, it's not identical.  (even if it was, it wouldn't have the same serial number) So ... It sounds like you don't think it will work.  If not - I guess I'll start looking at repairing the motherboard.  I'm not sure why it doesn't work.  It has power.

From what I read it looked like the system ID was generated from the on board video, and two other things.  My thoughts were, if you got those same chipsets, I don't guess it matters at this point.  (unless someone who knows definitely...)  I'll see what happens

[lilshawn]

an identical HDD

the machine ID is tied to the installation...it can't be moved around.

same motherboard.... different harddrives

fujitsu harddrive, serial number NN7JT4112SS3 and serial number NN7JT4112SS4 - 2 harddrives.... made one right after the other on the assembly line.

drive "S3" generates Machine ID: 4-SFLD-4XD9-TLRH
drive "S4" generates Machine ID: 4-SFLD-VWS9-TLRH

by all intents and purposes these drive are identical in every way, except the last digit of the serial number. the software generates a diferent Machine ID.

your only hope to recover the drive is to remove the controller board off of the faulty drive and swap it to the new drive. (assuming the controller itself isn't faulty.) that way you retain the same serial number. it must then be used with the original board.

as for your M/B, if it's toast, then it's toast. your old drive isn't going to work with a new board. when it boots, the software will perform it's hardware check and will come out with a different ID... it will not match the one on the drive.

you SHOULD have a set of installation disks. just get your new M/B and drive and everything ready and install it. it will spit out a machine ID... call global with the number and they will give you an installation key matched to the machine ID to install your game packs with.

[b3dr0ck]

The original HDD (Maxtor 20GB Q.Fireball) has a blown circuit board.  You can see the chip that is fried.  I took the PCB from an "identical" HDD and replaced the PCB, the drive now spins up.

The motherboard appears blown too.  It does not POST, but has power.  A HDD will not spin up when the IDE cable is plugged in.

I do not have any install CDs.  I can buy the $17 install CD from VR Global, but my understanding is I'll loose all of the games (Defender, Joust, Street Fighter, etc...)  I'll be reset to a bunch of no name games.

So you think I'm wasting my time trying to keep the software that was on it originally?  (accept my losses, and move on?)

[EVEGames]

Bedrock,
As far as salvaging the original HDD and using it on a new mobo, forgive me if I missed some detail in your or lilshawn's posts which would rule this out, but what about reinitializing the Master Boot Record on that HDD?  Unless there is something specifically coded on an Ultracade hard drive which would not permit this method from working, you can usually take a (working) HDD, plug it into a new (working) motherboard, and using a boot disk (yes, I'm talking 3 1/2" floppy disk here, although I'm sure it can be done with a USB thumb drive instead), run the following command to reinitialize the MBR of that HDD:
GDISK 1 /MBR
(of course, first you have to acquire the GDISK executable - it normally comes with Norton Ghost)

The crucial part is booting successfully into the boot disk, because if the computer starts booting from the HDD, Windows will attempt to load, and fail, and then you're pretty well screwed at that point.

Once you successfully run that command from the DOS prompt (you get some kind of positive response back on the screen, I forget the exact text), you can pop out that boot disk and restart the computer, and you should now be able to boot into that HDD on your new motherboard.  Of course, if the hardware is different on that new mobo (onboard sound, any of the onboard chipsets, video card, etc), you may need to update some drivers on that HDD, but this should not be a show-stopper by any means, you should still boot successfully into Windows.

::DISCLAIMER::
I can offer you no guarantees that this will work, especially since I have no knowledge of what's on an Ultracade HDD, all I can tell you is, I've used this method on several occasions, and it has never failed me.

-EVEGames

[crzywolf]

The original HDD (Maxtor 20GB Q.Fireball) has a blown circuit board.  You can see the chip that is fried.  I took the PCB from an "identical" HDD and replaced the PCB, the drive now spins up.

The physical serial number is on the controller board and if your controller board is fried that means that your current software on the drive is not going to work .

I do not have any install CDs.  I can buy the $17 install CD from VR Global, but my understanding is I'll loose all of the games (Defender, Joust, Street Fighter, etc...)  I'll be reset to a bunch of no name games.

The install disk for $17 at Global VR is just " the system installation Disk only" (no games). The game pack is $168.30 .

[b3dr0ck]

OK - so maybe I'm going about this all wrong.

If I can't repair it,  (which I'll find out, in a few days when the motherboard comes in) and keep the existing software load.

Can I purchase the $17 install disk, and use someone else's game packs to reinstall?  (Since it doesn't sound like the old game packs exist) Do these game packs CDs actually exist somewhere?  If I got new hardware up and running, could I use someone's Game Pack CDs?  I spoke to a tech at VR Global and he said they didn't have all the activation codes (or something like that, that's why I started down the path of fixing it).

This is what is currently installed on the HDD, that I'm being told I'll never get to work again

# Capcom Classics 2: 1941: Counter Attack, Black Tiger, Commando, Exed Exes, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Son Son, Strider, Varth: Operation Thunderstorm
# Fighting Classics: Champion Wrestler, Mat Mania, Mega Man: The Power Battle, Saturday Night Slam Masters, Street Fighter, Street Fighter II - The World Warrior, Street Fighter II - Champion Edition, Street Fighter II' Turbo - Hyper Fighting
# Toaplan Classics: Demon's World, Hellfire, Out Zone, Pipi & Bibi's, Snow Bros. - Nick & Tom, Snow Bros. 2 - With New Elves, Truxton II, Zero Wing
# Midway Smash Pack 1: Asteroids, Defender, Defender II, Joust, KLAX, Robotron: 2084, Tapper, Toobin'

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Almost sounds easier to stick a stock mame machine in it and recreate whatever front end it had in the engine of your choice.

[crzywolf]

I purchased my Ultracade system installation cd and a 86 game pack off Ebay for $45 . Also , in order to get the unlock code from them you will need to call or e-mail (I e-mailed them)  them your" Mcid number" from the operators menu of your Ultracade and the cd serial number off each game pack cd you wish to install .  

[b3dr0ck]

So ... hypothetically

I could barrow yours, install it, and call them to activate it.

[lilshawn]

I spoke to a tech at VR Global and he said they didn't have all the activation codes (or something like that, that's why I started down the path of fixing it).

they can't... they got in a huge pile of meadow muffin over not getting permission to use a whole whack of games and got sued over it.


CUE THE FLASHING LIGHTS!!! second verse same as teh first... one more time!! onntz onntz oontz!!!

on a fully functioning ultracade machine... you power it up and it begins to boot... the BIOS posts... The harddisk begins loading information to the RAM... once the boot process begins there is some software that runs. It takes information from various places... motherboard serial numbers... the soundcard ID numbers... the harddrive serial number.... the video ID etc. etc. etc..... and creates a HASH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function) think of it as taking a bunch of random serial numbers, and adding all the numbers together to end up with a single number....once it has the HASH number known as the "Machine ID" it compares it with the "Installation ID" stored on the harddrive... the 2 ID's mixed together equal "X" and it does... the program runs and you play games.

let's back space a little......

when you INSTALL the ultracade it has at least 2 disks... the "system installation disk" installs the base software... no games....does the same thing... hashes all the hardware and generates a machine ID. you have to CALL global and give them the ID that the software generates and they give you an INSTALLATION ID that you must use to install the games disk with. when you install the game pack, it asks for an installation code... it REHASHES the machine ID and the installation ID and if the codes wheren't meant to be used together the installation fails. if the machine ID changes the installation code also chages. the installation ID code is tied to the machine ID. once you have your games installed, the software runs and you play games.... see above.

now... let's change something like the motherboard....same harddive but could be anything... could be something as simple and installing a I/O card or modem into the system...

you power it up and it begins to boot... the BIOS posts... The harddisk begins loading information to the RAM... once the boot process begins there is some software that runs. It takes information from various places... motherboard numbers... the soundcard ID numbers... the harddrive serial number.... the video ID etc. etc. etc..... and creates a HASH........it compares it with the "Installation ID" stored on the harddrive... uh oh... it doesn't match anymore. ...even though the harddrive and the installation and even the motherboard are perfectly legit, because the generated machine ID is now different, it won't work. I have confirmed this by disabling certain motherboard features (not pertaining to the operation of the game) and also installing cards. resulting in different machine ID's


if your harddisk controller is fried, the information the software uses to compose the hardware ID is on the controller board only data is stored on the disk portion... because the board you replaced it with has a different serial number programmed into it... it will not work. your only hope was to have reclaimed the data from the failing drive and swapping the controller to the new drive... to the computer,, the drive would appear identical.

HASH EXAMPLE:

take 3 serial numbers

12345
67890
24680

for this hash we will add the serials together and generate another number...104915 okay let's make it smaller.. we will add 10+49+15+ to get 74.

now let's change one of the serial numbers...

22345
67890
24680

notice only one digit has changed... add the serials together and generate another number...114915 and add 11+49+15 and we get 75. it doesn't match 74 anymore. now i'm sure there are hundreds of serial numbers we can plug into there and have it generate a 74 but the ultracde HASH is likely way more complicated, but essentially it's doing the same thing. so your chances of hashing up an identical machine ID are astronomical.

bottom line. you MUST get a working system, and start a new installation. you MUST call global with the machine ID and have them generate an installation ID, and you must use that to install your packs.

Posted on: Today at 10:18:58 PM Posted by: b3dr0ck
Insert Quote
So ... hypothetically

I could barrow yours, install it, and call them to activate it.

if you have no disks, you might as well have no computer, because global will become suspicious of the same disks being used to install over and over again... and believe me, i'm sure they know cause i'm also sure that "he" didn't want to miss out on a dime because someone pirated the ultracde software...

[davidrfoley]

If you don't have the original game pack CD's that were installed onto the system, then you won't be able to re-install the games.  Anytime a component is changed out, the MCID will change.  If you have CD's, you'll have to get a new set of codes as the codes are generated based on the MCID.  If you have the later generation game packs on usb drive, then you have to send the drives in to be reflashed as they are locked to the original setup.  If you don't have either form of the original media that the game packs were sold on, you won't be able to re-install.  There is no way to migrate a drive or drive image to new hardware, the system was designed to force a re-install when components were swapped out to prevent cloning.

[b3dr0ck]

Well ... this has not been a fun start to my new hobby.

Thanks for the response David.  (You too lilshawn)

I guess I'll keep the HDD and Motherboard.  Maybe at some point it can be fixed.  I guess I could look into soldering the circuits, or find someone who can get the original components fixed.

So, I've got a 2user 6button each cabinet that is wired to a harness that plugs into a Ultracade USBLinx board.  Can I unplug that interface board, and get a jamma board and plug it into that same wiring harness?

[davidrfoley]

So, I've got a 2user 6button each cabinet that is wired to a harness that plugs into a Ultracade USBLinx board.  Can I unplug that interface board, and get a jamma board and plug it into that same wiring harness?

The USBlinx board is fully MAME compatible.

[Hoopz]

So, I've got a 2user 6button each cabinet that is wired to a harness that plugs into a Ultracade USBLinx board.  Can I unplug that interface board, and get a jamma board and plug it into that same wiring harness?

The USBlinx board is fully MAME compatible.

Any chance you'll comment that the Opti-gun is anything more than vaporware?  Considering Duke Nukem Forever is going to ship in May, it looks like Nanotech is leading the vaporware charge now.

[davidrfoley]

The third production run of boards of the 2nd revision of the board is in production.  The first boards were shipped in 2008 so I'm not sure how a product that has been shipped for 3 years and integrated into multiple machines is vaporware.

[Malenko]

There is no way to migrate a drive or drive image to new hardware, the system was designed to force a re-install when components were swapped out to prevent cloning.

Why dont you just tell him how you cloned them so he can fix his stuff?

[davidrfoley]

There is no way to migrate a drive or drive image to new hardware, the system was designed to force a re-install when components were swapped out to prevent cloning.

Why dont you just tell him how you cloned them so he can fix his stuff?

We didn't clone drives.  During manufacturing, every individual machine had to have an install process run on it to lock the base pack to the hardware.

[Malenko]

you take the fun out of my sarcasim.

[lilshawn]

so how did you manage to end up will all the hardware, but not have any software disks?

it should have all come together.

perhaps you can purchase a set of install disks off of e-bay to start over with.

[Hoopz]

The third production run of boards of the 2nd revision of the board is in production.  The first boards were shipped in 2008 so I'm not sure how a product that has been shipped for 3 years and integrated into multiple machines is vaporware.

Odd that we can't find reviews on line.   

[b3dr0ck]

Update:

I got the replacement motherboard in.  I connected everything up, and after wiring up a power switch to the motherboard, I turned it on.  The HDD wouldn't boot.  Sorta odd, because it detected the HDD and when it would look like it was trying to boot it would lock up no screen on the VGA monitor.

So I figured it was a software conflict.  But, now hear this after a couple of reboots It came up, and worked perfectly, all of the games, and everything.  Soo ... I'm guessing the MCID is not based on the the HDD PCB or the exact motherboard afterall.  I connected motherboard to the USBlinx and kept the vga monitor connected, and the joysticks and buttons on the cabinet worked.

Lots of stuff here that could be commented on like:
1 - the MCID doesn't appear to be dependent on the HDD PCB
2 - the MCID doesn't appear to be dependent on the exact motherboard

Currently the HDD doesn't boot the Ultracade software only once out of every 3-5 boots.  There are no errors.  It's just like it locks up if the Ultracade software doesn't load .  POST takes a long time - it detects the HDD immediately, and then takes about 30secs for the keyboard, USB message, to come up.  If everything goes well you see the blue flash of the Joshua Software presents message, then the Ultracade software starts up.

So does anyone have any insight whats going on?  I think maybe the harddrive is going bad - like maybe the boot record is getting currupt.  If it does boot it seems to run with no problems.

I've got other issues, the cabinet monitor doesn't work (original issue), and now the cabinet speakers now don't work.

[b3dr0ck]

So, I think I may have to reload, but ...

I've noticed my P1 and P2 buttons 5 and 6 don't work.  The guy said the Exit button has never worked.  When I looked up the wiring diagram on the USBlinx it said "The 12-pin connector for the EXIT button, and buttons 5 and
6 connects to the Player 3 header on the USBlinx shown by the arrow in the picture above."

http://www.udc.co.uk/support/ultracade/ultracade_sys_faq.pdf
page 8of9

Can someone confirm this for me?  Right now the buttons are wired into the harness - so that not right.  (Also when you press the P2 button6 is shutsdown the PC - like a suspend switch - crazy)

[davidrfoley]

So, I think I may have to reload, but ...

I've noticed my P1 and P2 buttons 5 and 6 don't work.  The guy said the Exit button has never worked.  When I looked up the wiring diagram on the USBlinx it said "The 12-pin connector for the EXIT button, and buttons 5 and
6 connects to the Player 3 header on the USBlinx shown by the arrow in the picture above."

http://www.udc.co.uk/support/ultracade/ultracade_sys_faq.pdf
page 8of9

Can someone confirm this for me?  Right now the buttons are wired into the harness - so that not right.  (Also when you press the P2 button6 is shutsdown the PC - like a suspend switch - crazy)

That is correct.  The P3 connector on the USBLinx has the P1 / P2 buttons 5 and 6 and the Exit button.

Here is some more documentation that may help

http://www.hyperware.com/pub/UCKit3.pdf

http://www.hyperware.com/pub/USBLinx.pdf

[b3dr0ck]

So ... I fixed the p1, p2 button 5-6, and the exit button.  The connector for those connections, were actually plugged into the digital imput.  The guy said the exit button never worked.  So ... I'm guessing they never used the p1 and p2 buttons 5-6 either.

Here's the issue now with the USBLinx - I now have no audio.  I've tested the plug, and the the audio in from a computer (or any source) and there is no audio to the speakers in the cabinet.  It's not a huge problem, I guess once I get the computer rebuilt, I can just go from the computer to the speakers in the cabinet.

The only think I can think of is I blew the amp on the USBLinx card when I crossed up some voltage in the cabinet?  The audio did work at one point.  Before the computer blew up, the audio in the cabinet worked. 

I did notice early on that the heatsink between the audio connector and the fuses did get very hot.  See pic - Now it is completely cool when it is powered up, and no audio.  Not sure if that was the audio amp or what.  (I checked all of the fuses with a multimeter)

[davidrfoley]

Do you have +12v coming into the USBlinx on the HDD power connector?  Check with a meter on the fuse pins to make sure.  The audio amplifier gets its power from that connector.

[b3dr0ck]

Alright, I'll check it, and update.  (not going to be able to do it tonight, seems there's something about today, that is obligating me to be out)

I'm concerned the power supply might be poor. 

I'm getting a new case.  The new motherboard I have will not fit in the Graphite case.  So I'm going get a new power supply at the same time.

[b3dr0ck]

I replaced the power supply today.  Same thing.

I tested the fuses (I removed the fuse one at a time, and tested the pins with a multimeter)
F1 - 5.6 vac
F2 - 0.0
F3 - 24.1 vac

There is no heat on the heatsink.   Is the AMP dead on the USBlinx?

Can you say cacophony of failure.

[davidrfoley]

you should be getting DC voltage, not AC voltage.

[b3dr0ck]

Alright so I set my multimeter to DC

F1 2.0
F2 0.0
F3 11.58

[davidrfoley]

F1 is the 5v input line from the power supply connector on J1.  Verify that you are only getting 2v on either side of the fuse.

F2 is the 12v input line from the power supply that is fed out onto the JAMMA connector.  It should read 12v on both sides of the fuse

F3 is the 12v input line from the power supply that is used to power the audio AMP.  You should read 12v on both sides of the fuse and 12v to pin 3 and pin 13 of the audio amplifier chip.

One thing to note, make sure that you do not have a power supply that is directly connected to the JAMMA harness, as this can cause problems.

Another thing to check is to check the pins on your HDD power connector that you are attaching to J1 on the USBlinx.  make sure that you have 12v DC on pin 1 and 5v DC on pin 4.  If you don't have something close to that, your problem starts with the power supply.

[b3dr0ck]

OK - I may have not tested correctly before, because this is what I got today

HDD connector input tested fine, both 5V and 12V

F1 tested 5V before and after the fuse
F2 and F3 tested 12V before and after the fuse

read 12V at pin 3 and pin 13 on the amp chip.

So ... maybe the audio plug input is bad?  (That might make sense because the one speaker never worked, and I tested the speaker and it works fine, looks like it was wired to R)

[lilshawn]

I would still not negate the possibility of the audio amp gone bad. If the voltages are okay but you still have no audio, then I think the amp is toast, especially if you mentioned before that the amp heatsink was really hot at one time.

You can obtain a replacement and put it in, or bypass it entirely and use an amp for some computer speakers.

[b3dr0ck]

Yes I remember it being really hot at one time, soon after I got the cabinet.  I even mentioned it to the person who was with me.  It did work before then.

I really am uncomfortable with soldering at this point (I know I'm gonna have to get over).  Replacing the chip, seems more pain that what its worth.

It's just audio, I can use another amp, if need be.  I'm just trying to figure out every little thing.

Every single item (monitor, motherboard, USBlinx, hdd, powersupply) at this point has either been broken and replaced, or is currently not working right.

BUT - the wiring to the buttons and joysticks are working now.

[lilshawn]

Ya I'm kinda having an issue as well...

Seems if I press more than 6 buttons on the player 2 side the usblinx freezes up. It won't begin responding until I power down.

[davidrfoley]

Ya I'm kinda having an issue as well...

Seems if I press more than 6 buttons on the player 2 side the usblinx freezes up. It won't begin responding until I power down.

Which I/O card do you have?  The early JAMMAlinx and USBlinx boards had issues with certain button sequences.  What version of the software are you running?

[lilshawn]

Ya I'm kinda having an issue as well...

Seems if I press more than 6 buttons on the player 2 side the usblinx freezes up. It won't begin responding until I power down.

Which I/O card do you have?  The early JAMMAlinx and USBlinx boards had issues with certain button sequences.  What version of the software are you running?

i apologize for the hijack...

the USBLinx is a 900-0010-01 revision B and the software/base pack is 3.85 with some kind of "system upgrade" patch 3.86.

seems on the player 2 side, if you press the 6 user buttons OR a direction and 5 buttons OR 2 directions (diagonal) and 4 buttons, it causes the USBLinx to freeze up. the software continues to operate, but the buttons don't register.

the player one side doesn't seem to suffer the same issue.