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Advice on Buttons
8BitMonk:
Just wanted to say that I got my Electric Ice buttons with True-Leaf switches setup and they are fan-freaking-tastic. Hardly a sound, no click, super light to the touch and of course they look great lit up. A bit costly but overall I'm really happy with them.
armi0024:
For clarification:
1) Micros are typically rated to "maximum activation force", so it is possible for a 75 gram to activate at a value under 75 grams, on another note, this means that "20 gram microswitches" will activate at less than 20g of force
2) While I realize there has been some disagreement on whether Happ lists accurate specifications specifications, they very clearly list the microswitches as 75gram, as shown here. Or if you want to skip Happ and go by Cherrycorp specifications, you can see the 75 gram specification here. KWJA in the K series micros
3) IL microswitches are a different series of Cherry switches, the D44X, which are also rated to 75 grams and can be seen here: D44X.
As these are "maximum operating forces specified by both Happ and the manufacturer, actual tested values may be lower...kind of like "This product may contain one or more of the following..."
I think the important part for people deciding buttons is that different micros have different feels. Getting back to the speaker analogy, I dislike Bose and love B&W, why? because I do. I think arcade controls are the same. Regardless of the exact gram weight on the microswitch, tested or rated, Cherrys are different than 50 gram Zippys are different than 20 gram Zippys and all of them are better than 125 gram Chinese micros. My goal was to offer people who are curious, an inexpensive opportunity to try a few different switches out.
RandyT:
--- Quote from: armi0024 on January 30, 2011, 02:37:06 pm ---For clarification:
1) Micros are typically rated to "maximum activation force", so it is possible for a 75 gram to activate at a value under 75 grams, on another note, this means that "20 gram microswitches" will activate at less than 20g of force
--- End quote ---
They state this simply because they cannot absolutely control the activation force. It will even be slightly different from one activation to the next, due to the way the mechanism works. This does not, however, mean that a 75g switch will activate at 35g or even 50g and still be considered to be "in spec". A switch with a specific force rating will activate at a force value very close to the rated force requirement.
--- Quote ---2) While I realize there has been some disagreement on whether Happ lists accurate specifications specifications, they very clearly list the microswitches as 75gram, as shown here. Or if you want to skip Happ and go by Cherrycorp specifications, you can see the 75 gram specification here. KWJA in the K series micros
--- End quote ---
They very clearly list the specs for a microswitch they offer, not specifically the ones they ship with their buttons. They have never shipped a 75g switch as standard in their buttons in the 8 years I have been selling them. If they had, people here would have been rejoicing when they switched to the 50g E-switch instead of complaining. The posts are here, and you can look if you'd like.
--- Quote ---3) IL microswitches are a different series of Cherry switches, the D44X, which are also rated to 75 grams and can be seen here: D44X.
--- End quote ---
What IL does wasn't the point of contention, rather your incorrect assertion that HAPP has been using 75g switches as standard with their buttons. Folks who already have these buttons will incorrectly assume from your erroneous statement that they have 75g switches in them, when in fact they will be much less. This will cause confusion of well-established facts and lead to folks being disappointed and / or wasting money when they try to replace the switches using the numbers you are incorrectly providing. This is my concern, and no other.
As for what are "reasonable" force ratings, even you are indicating that high force requirements are worse than lower ones, because it's rather obvious. But I absolutely encourage folks to not only try them, but use them for extended periods and for different gaming genres. It will be pretty obvious, pretty quickly, the direction one needs to go to cover the bases, and do it comfortably.
armi0024:
Picture of Happ microswitch:
Product specification for Cherry :KWJA, KW=series, J=force 75g, A UL temperature rating
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/miniature/k.htm
If anyone is confused by this discussion and would like to talk microswitches, please pm me, I'd be happy to talk more about it in pm or email.
I am at a bit of loss for why there is an argument here when I am posting information directly from Happ and Cherry based on the product numbers shown above on the Happ buttons.
Since I really can't elaborate this point anymore, I will stop here. If you need me, I'll be playing some Joust :) or maybe I'll have some fun with the Vectrex :)
RandyT:
--- Quote from: armi0024 on January 30, 2011, 04:42:41 pm ---Product specification for Cherry :KWJA, KW=series, J=force 75g, A UL temperature rating
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/miniature/k.htm
--- End quote ---
I have a number of the pictured switches here. They are HAPP branded switches, so you shouldn't expect the specs associated with the Cherry model numbers to reign supreme. After the initial letters, there is only a number, rather than the typical letters of a complete part number. That number is likely an internal specification for an OEM customer. There's no way to be sure what that internal specification indicates.
When tested on my lab scale, these actuate at right around 38g, which is a far cry from 75g. This is why it's important to actually do the legwork to verify some of these supposed specs before passing them on to others who don't have the ability to do so.
The 50g E-Switch people have complained about replacing them is louder, a fair bit harder to actuate and by no surprise, actuates very close to 50g.