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Reading MAME as technical reference and historical document: 720 controller

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abaraba:


--- Quote from: Paul Olson on January 11, 2011, 11:40:55 pm ---If you want to use the real controller, the code in the driver needs to be changed back to what was there before .85u1. The logic needs to be changed, and the LETA0 and LETA1 need to be changed back to dial instead of analog.

--- End quote ---

Did we not already discuss this when I said use "mame 720 -mouse" and everything will work just fine with plain unmodified MAME binaries, before and after .85. -- What you are talking about are just SCREEN NAMES, mouse gets mapped together/over, or instead of default input, when you enable the mouse, regardless of whether that input is named "Dial" or "Analog Stick".

E.g. (TAB - "controls document")

Analog Stick X ---- "Mouse X"

First one is just a LABEL, a 'screen name', not reference to how input is handled. It is supposed to be TECHNICAL REFERENCE, it is supposed to be historically accurate - it should describe the type of input signal that goes into PCB. So, if I am trying to repair actual 720 board, MAME should not fool me into trying to make it work with analog joystick. Therefore, for 720 degrees, the first 'label' should say "spinner", "quadrature encoding" or something among those lines, while the second piece of info in that *document* is reference to your current settings and device mapping - can be set to mouse, keys, analog stick and whatever else is there.
 

Paul Olson:

I realize that it works with a mouse. The issue is whether or not it works with an actual 720 controller. The code that was used for the dual rotary encoder is no longer there...it was replaced with the code for the analog controller. MAME needs that code to handle the positional encoder. It may work fine without, I have no way to test that yet. It shouldn't work right though...that funky second encoder wheel shouldn't work without specific code to handle it.

abaraba:

Second (calibration) spinner input works too, I also explained how to test it.

This is already all confusing, and you jumped from:
- "If newer versions work with a mouse, what doesn't work with a real controller?"

...to saying "it does not work".


Let's first answer your prior question, lets not try to fix what already works.


Xiaou is saying - authentic controller work no more, it needs to be fixed.

Haze is saying - authentic controller work no more, but that's fine, analog is better.

I'm saying - everything works, everything was working all along, only screen names changed and should be renamed to "spinner", or at least back to "dial", although I'd call it "optical_quadrature_spinner".


So, in other words, I completely agree with what you were saying just before - the true mystery is this:

- If newer versions work with a mouse, what doesn't work with a real controller?

newmanfamilyvlogs:


--- Quote from: abaraba on January 11, 2011, 10:52:35 pm ---The original controller for 720 Degrees was a joystick that was hardware-limited to only travel along the outermost edges in a circle. The internal mechanism for reading this control was similar to a spinner except that it had the additional benefit of knowing which direction the joystick was pointing. Because this knowledge is an important aspect of the game, the current emulation of the controller maps an analog joystick to the underlying controls instead of a spinner."


I read it like this:
- Original game uses spinner, this is important knowledge so we map it to analog stick instead. Whaaaaat!?

The word "instead" automatically makes that sentence logical impossibility, in relation to accuracy. Never can "B" be a better "A" than "A" itself, or as Xiaou2 would say, "Substituting Hotdog for Beef in Beef stew is no longer Beef Stew."

--- End quote ---

"This knowledge" is referring to the knowledge of the direction in which the stick is pointing, not that it used a spinner. It's not logically impossible, it's ambiguous. There's a difference.

abaraba:


--- Quote from: cotmm68030 on January 12, 2011, 06:01:17 am ---"This knowledge" is referring to the knowledge of the direction in which the stick is pointing, not that it used a spinner. It's not logically impossible, it's ambiguous. There's a difference.

--- End quote ---

Ok, I agree.

Still, no need for "instead", it should be "also".



--- Quote from: MonMotha ---Anyone who honestly believes MAME is about "historical documentation" is nuts, in my opinion.

--- End quote ---


Perhaps. Can't disagree really.

Hopefully, I am more of --that which squirrels like-- than --that which hangs under penis-- type of naive person.



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