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Author Topic: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(  (Read 13771 times)

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Hituro

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No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« on: December 21, 2010, 05:28:40 am »
Can anyone confirm if this is true?  I own a Wells Gardner D9800 Monitor, and I read somewhere that Wells Gardner is discontinuing it's line of CRT monitors and will only offer LCD monitors.  I went on their website, and sure enough you can no longer buy them...  Which sucks because if something ever happened to the monitor I currently have... I could basically never replace it :(  Boo.  Tell me this is not true!

keefyboy

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 08:59:51 am »
There's Wei-Ya and Bilabs for CRT arcade monitors. Hopefully they still sell them in 5-10 years time. Unfortunately, big CRTs (and 4:3 monitors) are pretty much a relic from a bygone day. I don't know of any real use for them Stateside - for almost every application, an LCD is a far superior option. We're a very tiny market. Apparently they still use them in China if I'm reading the market right, but when that market dries up, 4:3 CRTs will be no more.
People have (IMO) gotten stupid, and now most monitors are 16:9. OK for watching some movies, really crap for business use. But OOOOOOHHH, WIIIDESCREEN! :timebomb:

ahofle

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 10:18:21 am »
There are still a few places offering them.  I just posted a review of one of them:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=107760.0

DaOld Man

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 10:41:24 am »
Is it possible to use a crt tube out of an old computer monitor?

ahofle

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 10:47:27 am »
I know it's possible to use one from an old TV.  A computer monitor would probably not work as well since they are designed for much higher resolutions.

gryhnd

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 12:04:25 pm »
People have (IMO) gotten stupid, and now most monitors are 16:9. OK for watching some movies, really crap for business use. But OOOOOOHHH, WIIIDESCREEN! :timebomb:

 :cheers:

Not to get to off topic, but:

Can't tell you how many businesses and friends I visit that have big shiny new WS monitors and they're running them in the original monitors native 4:3 but strrrrrrretched. It's fugly.

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eds1275

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 12:27:20 pm »
That just bugs me when people stretch their images and don't do anything about it.

bkenobi

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 12:52:14 pm »
Yet further off topic...  Why do networks broadcast HD content in 16:9, scaled from 4:3, scaled from 16:9?  I have a 4:3 and watched a program last night that had 3 sets of bars.  My 36" 4:3 had an image that was ~12" tall?!   :soapbox:

Hituro

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 01:39:17 pm »
I agree with all of you on the fugly aspect ratios. I enjoy my HD TV for movies and games, but I agree, sometimes 16:9 isn't the best for everything.  Plus, those old games just look and run better on a good old CRT.  I know they're big and bulky, but I still love a good ol' CRT for arcade games.  Hopefully mine will live a long life to keep those old games alive.  I confirmed with Wells Gardner though.  They have discontinued them but are making a new LCD version of it.  They say they will still offer support and repair for the monitors though, so that's good.  Just glad I got mine when I did.  So those of you who don't have a WG D9800, find one now! :P

LeedsFan

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 02:39:52 pm »
I'm just glad I kept hold of my Vision Master pro 514 (22" CRT). It's not an arcade monitor and it weighs a ton  :P but it will come in handy for a separate Mame PC shortly.

MonMotha

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 02:58:56 pm »
I bought a total of 6 NOS Sanwa 29PFX monitors last year from a somewhat local seller.  I kept 3, and a total of 3 went to friends.  I should have bought more since the seller is out, now :(

At this point I'm hoarding all my CRT gear and attempting to recondition it as it breaks.  You basically can't buy it anymore, and when you can, the shipping will kill you.

I also have 3 Sony GDM-FW900 CRT PC monitors for gaming.  1920x1200 @ 85-96Hz?  I'll take it!  Just need a REALLY good video card and cable.

There is an eBay seller right now with 29" CGA/EGA in Cali (local pickup available in TX and PA for a small group shipping fee).  I think Rick of Nieman displays still has some tubes available, too.  Betson has some Makvisions laying around, but I think they're out of Korteks.  I'm not sure if Bilabs still has any CRTs.  I think WG is basically out.

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2010, 03:03:10 pm »
Quote
Is it possible to use a crt tube out of an old computer monitor?

There are quite a few (albeit aging now) presentation style crt monitors that run at 15khz etc, even those that don't make a nice alternative to LCD.
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Creeper

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2010, 04:02:06 pm »
I have a D9800 as well which stresses me out to think of it breaking down. I've read lots of comments about people saying they have like a one year life expectancy due to poor quality, is there any truth to this? I had an old RCA tv that was going strong since like 1993, needed a degauss but it still worked great. Why would an industrial grade monitor like the D9800 be so much worse, and why would huge gaming franchises such as Golden Tee use them if they are so unreliable?

MonMotha

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2010, 04:20:12 pm »
Wells Gardner has apparently had quality issues for years.  I think they kept getting spec'd since they had a reputation for quality and reliability early in the 90s.  The D9800 is supposedly decent.  The D9200 was plagued with problems, mostly due to the fact that minor, relatively common failures have a tendency to take out lots of components on the board as a result.  Combined with poor solder joint quality and the thermal cycles CRT arcade monitors inherently undergo, this is bad.  The D9800 and D9400 is supposedly better in both of these departments.

As to reliability compared to old, these digital multisync monitors are a lot more complicated than the old analog fixed frequency monitors.  That's a tradeoff for the additional functionality.  I think people often look at these old monitors with rose colored glasses, though.  Plenty of them have kicked the bucket or required semi-major repair through the years.  What really hurts is that replacement parts are less available, and monitor techs have gotten kinda expensive.

mgb

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2010, 06:01:34 pm »
for almost every application, an LCD is a far superior option.

I'm not sure I would say LCDs are superior.
But hey they're cheaper to ship

opt2not

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2010, 06:24:06 pm »
for almost every application, an LCD is a far superior option.

I'm not sure I would say LCDs are superior.
But hey they're cheaper to ship
I'm pretty sure I'd say LCD's are not superior to CRTs when it comes to arcade games. LCD's are missing that phosphorus glow, that rounded image-scape. Sprites weren't meant to look so crisp, and the only way you can get away with it is if you're using a small-form LCD (9" or smaller), were the image is tiny enough that your eyes naturally blur the pixel colours together.


mgb

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2010, 08:53:16 pm »
Yeah, I'm holding on to my CRTs for as long as I could.

keefyboy

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2010, 05:14:20 am »
for almost every application, an LCD is a far superior option.

I'm not sure I would say LCDs are superior.
But hey they're cheaper to ship

They are for most non-arcade applications. Thinner, crisper, easier to design a device around, etc.
Think of how much diagnostic equipment is in your average hospital, and imagine replacing all the LCDs with CRTs - the devices would  have to be significantly larger. And the medical field is *MUCH* bigger than the arcade market.
Gambling, which used to use a ton of CRTs, now uses LCDs. The slot machines with LCDs can be made smaller than even ones with physical reels.
TVs, my LCD flat-panel is crisper than any CRT TV I've ever seen.

I'm just surprised that Wei-Ya still sells brand-new 29" tri-syncs. Lots of candy cabs here in Asia, so maybe replacement CRTs are propping up the market . No new cabs have a CRT - they're all like the 16:9 Vewlix.

Note - I am *not* arguing that LCDs are better for arcade gaming. Heck, I just bought a AWSD with a 29" CRT specifically to convert to MAME. I just know that arcade machines, especially the DIY market, don't move enough CRTs to justify the manufacturing costs. Andy from Ultimarc has written that the AVGA 3000 might be the last iteration due to sales and costs - but I hope I misread that.

I'm seriously considering buying a spare CRT just in case.

Hituro

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 08:34:38 am »
for almost every application, an LCD is a far superior option.

I'm not sure I would say LCDs are superior.
But hey they're cheaper to ship

They are for most non-arcade applications. Thinner, crisper, easier to design a device around, etc.
Think of how much diagnostic equipment is in your average hospital, and imagine replacing all the LCDs with CRTs - the devices would  have to be significantly larger. And the medical field is *MUCH* bigger than the arcade market.
Gambling, which used to use a ton of CRTs, now uses LCDs. The slot machines with LCDs can be made smaller than even ones with physical reels.
TVs, my LCD flat-panel is crisper than any CRT TV I've ever seen.

I'm just surprised that Wei-Ya still sells brand-new 29" tri-syncs. Lots of candy cabs here in Asia, so maybe replacement CRTs are propping up the market . No new cabs have a CRT - they're all like the 16:9 Vewlix.

Note - I am *not* arguing that LCDs are better for arcade gaming. Heck, I just bought a AWSD with a 29" CRT specifically to convert to MAME. I just know that arcade machines, especially the DIY market, don't move enough CRTs to justify the manufacturing costs. Andy from Ultimarc has written that the AVGA 3000 might be the last iteration due to sales and costs - but I hope I misread that.

I'm seriously considering buying a spare CRT just in case.

I totally understand your argument.  And I agree, for the latest technology, LCD is much better than CRT.  I think a lot of us gamers who used to play Arcade games back in the 80's, are trying to capture that same look and feel.  Trust me, only CRT I have, is in my MAME cab, and for good reason.  I just lose that old fashion pixel look and glow :D

Xiaou2

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2010, 11:39:44 am »
LCDs are nice because they are thin and light... but thats about it.


 Good CRTs produce a much better overall picture and last 10x as long doing it.

 I stupidly bought a 37" LCD monitor, only to have it die in 3yrs. Luckily, they refunded my money due to the many problems I had... and I used that money to buy a used sony widescreen 1080i  CRT off craigslist.

 The LCD had problems right off the bat... with slight dark patches seen in low light.  Then it started to get image burns from being my desktop.  Turns out that they dont burn-in... but the image gets 'Stuck' and it requires the monitor to stay off for extended time periods to reverse this condition.
 
 At anything but the native resolution, it looked Wretched.  PS2 colors looked washed out and picture was blurry (in a bad way). Response time 5ms was Ok... but for fast moving objects and lots of scrolling... it was noticeably annoyingly lagging.
 
 Color range and contrast also dont match a good CRT.  So doing digital artwork with accuracy on a LCD was pointless.  I went an got a used CRT PC monitor for my desktop instead.
 
 The Sony Widescreen CRT TV was one of the last sets of tube tvs they produced.  The picture is slightly fuzzy compared to an LCD.. however, the detail is still incredible... and the pictures color depth & contrast make it well worth an ever so slight loss in clarity.  With PS2, it looks phenomenal,
in both low and high resolution modes. CRTs handle non-native resolutions 1000x better than the best LCDs.  I hook the thing up to my PC via HDMI, and its incredible for watching media and playing arcade style games on it.
I use it for standard HDTV & DVD viewing as well. Highly recommended.
(but still too clean / hi-res for mame's lowres games to look correctly on it. Its more like a giant PC monitor)

 LCDs are pretty horrible actually... especially for the gaming industry... as LCDs are not really designed to last more than 5yrs... and thats IF your lucky.  The backlights last about 50,000 hrs max, and the inverters usually blow up before that.. and your lucky if the main PCB does not suicide on you before both of those die.

 And finally, even the remaining 90s-2000 era arcade monitors used for replacements to the original 80s era games, were not quite the same.
The dot pitch being much larger on the older models... makes the picture looks a lot different as a result.

keefyboy

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2010, 12:31:05 pm »
I'm running on my 1920x1200 monitor I bought 6 years ago. At 1920x1200, no CRT can touch it. No one with half a brain argues that at anything other than native LCDs fall flat - but you don't spec a system to run at other than native anymore. There's no such animal as a new 37" LCD computer monitor - 30" is the max, possibly other than TVs marketed as a PC monitor. Gaming - Fallout: New Vegas looks great on my 6 year old monitor, thank you.

LCDs are cheap as chips - if they don't last beyond 5 years - who really cares? Throw it away and get something better for cheaper. You find me, in 1990s prices, a 24" CRT for under $300. The best one, the Sony 24" GDM-FW900 (widescreen, BTW), was WAY over $1000 new. Used on eBay is $400-$900. I can find 24" LCDs that are way superior by swinging a dead cat for under $300 nowadays. I *almost* rescued a 17" LCD from a *dumpster* for crying out loud yesterday - the deep gouge was the only thing stopping me. If you have an LCD made from 2003-2008 that's dead, learn to solder and replace the blown caps. It is a well-known issue that all makers specced caps that were inferior - Sony and a couple others might have been the exception.

HDTV? No. Your old CRT compared to the latest 60+" LCDs... Don't even go there.

Again, I *HAVE* a CRT for my MAME cabinet. But if you were to ask me to use it for my family's main TV? *sigh* No.

Look - I'm all for using CRTs for classic arcade gaming. But you are wrong if you think there's market support for CRTs going forward. Arcade monitors are a DEAD market, and you and I are holding onto antiques - and I'm not happy about that. Fortunately, Wei-Ya still makes new, large, CRTs. I don't expect to be able to buy a new one on December 23, 2020.

SavannahLion

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2010, 03:44:19 pm »
LCDs are cheap as chips - if they don't last beyond 5 years - who really cares? Throw it away and get something better for cheaper.

I love how environmentalists treat LCDs as the best thing since sliced bread yet don't give a second thought to throwing away their TV in under five years.

Quote
If you have an LCD made from 2003-2008 that's dead, learn to solder and replace the blown caps. It is a well-known issue that all makers specced caps that were inferior - Sony and a couple others might have been the exception.

I don't believe all the manufacturers spec'ed lower caps. Wasn't it more to do with theft and shoddy Chinese cap formulations we're all still paying for to this day? I still see pc hardware with "Japanese caps" emblazoned on the box.

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2010, 04:23:54 pm »
At 1920x1200, no CRT can touch it.

*sets his 70lb Dell Trinitron P1110 CRT to 1920x1200*  Sup? :)

However the P1110 is 4:3 so that's not a good resolution for it to run it, but it can also do 1856x1392 @ 85hz.  Which is infact a HIGHER resolution than 1920x1200. :)

1920 x 1200 = 2 304 000 pixels
1856 x 1392 = 2 583 442 pixels.

So considder your 1920x1200 very much 'touched' by a CRT. :)

MonMotha

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2010, 04:41:31 pm »
So, here's how things work when you outsource manufacturing to China (and other distant, "low cost" manufacturing centers):

*You send a Bill of Materials for your device
*The manufacturing company alters it to use components and such that they can easily and cheaply buy locally and sends you their revisions for your approval
*You approve or reject their revisions and arrive at a consensus as to what will work but that can be easily/cheaply bought near the factory
*The manufacturer ignores everything you said and substitutes willy nilly to reduce cost as much as possible often several months into a manufacturing run after the initial oversight "heat" has died down
*You end up with merchandise that has components with the same basic specs, but all the subtle "second order" specs are totally unreviewed and may be totally unsuitable for the application

The fun part about this is that things will initially work.  The device will turn on and run, and, as such, it will pass the basic "functional test" QC step.  However, eventually all those "subtle specs" that were unsuitable for the actual application will cause things to break prematurely.

Yes, I'm referring mostly to capacitors, but other easily substituted parts like inductors and resistors also suffer.


If we want to get into a resolution pissing contest, my GDM-FW900s can do about 1900 visible lines at 60Hz.  I don't like 60Hz on CRTs, though, as it's a flickery (and a bit choppy on LCDs, mind you, and you can't go any higher on most LCDs), so I run it at 85+.  At 85Hz, I'm limited to about 1350 lines.  I can actually do 1920x1200 at up to about 96Hz.  DJ_Izumi's P1110 is basically the non-widescreen version of an FW900 (IIRC, it's a Sony GDM-F950 or something like that).  LCD's can't touch these things in many ways, but they are lighter weight and can have slightly better color gamut.

If you want to see something unreal, crank a good CRT up to 160Hz refresh.  Motion is so smooth it seems wrong.  Even the "600Hz sub field drive" plasmas and "240Hz" LCDs can't touch it, mostly because that's all done with fake upconversion whereas an analog video path CRT being refreshed at 160Hz is actually being fed 160 frames per second.

DJ_Izumi

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2010, 05:17:20 pm »
If we want to get into a resolution pissing contest, my GDM-FW900s can do about 1900 visible lines at 60Hz.  I don't like 60Hz on CRTs, though, as it's a flickery (and a bit choppy on LCDs, mind you, and you can't go any higher on most LCDs), so I run it at 85+.  At 85Hz, I'm limited to about 1350 lines.  I can actually do 1920x1200 at up to about 96Hz.  DJ_Izumi's P1110 is basically the non-widescreen version of an FW900 (IIRC, it's a Sony GDM-F950 or something like that).  LCD's can't touch these things in many ways, but they are lighter weight and can have slightly better color gamut.

The P1110 isn't that good.  It's only a 21" 4:3 where as the GDM-FW900 is a 24" 4:3.  I listed 1856 x 1392 as it's the highest res I can get these things to ands till do 85hz.  I find that 60hz on these tubes are painful.  That said, I normally run them at 1600x1200 cause anything higher and everything is too small on the screen for my tastes. :)

Right now one of my P1110's is dieing and needs replacement.  Trying to locate one but I also found someone selling an FW900 for $150.  Trying to see if he'll do $50.  I know it's a lowball but you dunno how long a 10yo CRT will last once you buy it.  I've already tossed one P1110 after the heater on the tube died and one is starting to flicker and get overbright so it needs replacement.

Silverwind

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2010, 12:40:27 am »
I'm using a betson imperial 27" arcade monitor... crossing my fingers hoping it doesn't go out.

I think Betson still has them listed?
http://www.betson.com/products/parts/IMP-44-4070-RT

Mine was REAL cheap to ship too.... I drove to their warehouse and picked it up!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 12:42:43 am by Silverwind »

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2010, 01:12:04 am »
If you want to see something unreal, crank a good CRT up to 160Hz refresh.  Motion is so smooth it seems wrong.  Even the "600Hz sub field drive" plasmas and "240Hz" LCDs can't touch it, mostly because that's all done with fake upconversion whereas an analog video path CRT being refreshed at 160Hz is actually being fed 160 frames per second.

OMG thank you! I swear I was the only one that knew this. It's nice to know I'm not the only one that knows this.

Of course, it's interesting to note this was when (during the pre-LCD era) gamers were arguing the merits of 30FPS, 60FPS, and higher having any visual difference. It's also nice to know that that argument has been vindicated to a degree that gives me a delicious enjoyment of the irony.

As for the caps. I'm too tired to go looking for the reference. But even if the caps were spec'ed, there's still the risk you're dealing with the caps made with the unstable (read: stolen) dielectric formula. Or is there more to the crap components than just bad gel?

How does a resister be out of spec besides resistance?

Osirus23

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2010, 01:44:17 am »
People have (IMO) gotten stupid, and now most monitors are 16:9. OK for watching some movies, really crap for business use. But OOOOOOHHH, WIIIDESCREEN! :timebomb:

I rather enjoy the ability to have 2 documents open side by side in Word, and using Aero snap in Windows 7 is awesome.

I stick with 4:3 CRTs for cabs but for any other use you couldn't pay me to go back to them.

MonMotha

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2010, 01:53:39 am »
There were definitely some problems with caps back in the early 2000s.  Apparently it was a problem with industrial espionage gone awry.  The story I've heard is that some cheap cap manufacturer in either China or Malaysia stole the dielectric formula from an established manufacturer (I believe Japanese) but either forgot a component or omitted it to save cost.  The caps worked OK initially without this component of the dielectric, but they degraded very quickly.  To make matters worse, several other cap manufacturers apparently adopted this "cheaper" formulation after seeing that it apparently worked.  This resulted in problems being pretty widespread until everybody figured things out again.

Of course, this only applies to caps that are properly spec'd in the first place.  Capacitance and temperature rating are far from the only specifications on a capacitor.  ESR, ESL, design lifetime, rated temperature, dissipation factor, etc. all matter, too.  What inevitably happens is that the engineer in charge of the design spec's a part, then it gets substituted by some bean counter to "cost reduce" things based only on the "major" specs of capacitance, voltage rating, and case size.  In some cases, a special capacitor is needed to meet safety requirements (e.g. X or Y rated).  These are usually marked "engineering approval required for substitution", but sometimes people don't pay attention.  Fires sometimes result.

And, well, sometimes the engineer in charge on the design doesn't get the cap spec'd right in the first place :)


As to resistors, they too have several parameters that matter other than resistance and rated power handling.  The most frequently cited is tolerance.  A common "secondary" characteristic is the inductance of the resistor, but other things matter.  In some situations, the behavior of the resistor when presented with a sudden current surge matters (extremely short-term overage of the power handling of the device - not enough to actually heat it up, but lots of current).  Thick film resistors will often pop open, while film resistors usually survive.  Sometimes, there's a safety aspect, too.  In some cases, it could be catastrophic for a resistor to fail as a short, while failing as an open is at least safe, even if it causes the device to work (or, occasionally, vice-versa).  Again, improper substitutions can result in fire or similar unsafe situations.  There are also things like temperature coefficient, and I'm sure plenty of others not coming to mind, now.


Isn't electronic design fun?

SavannahLion

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2010, 02:13:52 am »
Intriguing.... without doing further research (yet) on the topic you presented, I do have this immediate question:
Quote
Thick film resistors will often pop open, while film resistors usually survive.

How does that work? What part of the manufacturing process causes that to occur?

Or better yet, how would you even know which type is which short of looking at the specs? eg, if I were to replace a blown resistor besides the obvious values, how does one determine that attribute?

And, well, sometimes the engineer in charge on the design doesn't get the cap spec'd right in the first place :)

Or the engineer in charge gets fired or relocated and the project gets assigned to someone else (if at all).

Don't ask.

Quote
Isn't electronic design fun?

It is actually. I just wish I had more time to do it.

Blanka

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2010, 02:22:03 am »
At 1920x1200, no CRT can touch it.

*sets his 70lb Dell Trinitron P1110 CRT to 1920x1200*  Sup? :)

However the P1110 is 4:3 so that's not a good resolution for it to run it, but it can also do 1856x1392 @ 85hz.  Which is infact a HIGHER resolution than 1920x1200. :)

1920 x 1200 = 2 304 000 pixels
1856 x 1392 = 2 583 442 pixels.

So considder your 1920x1200 very much 'touched' by a CRT. :)
My IIyama 4:3 19 inch did 2048x1536 with no problems. Thats almost the pixels of that huge 27 inch iMac.

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2010, 12:28:02 pm »
People have (IMO) gotten stupid, and now most monitors are 16:9. OK for watching some movies, really crap for business use. But OOOOOOHHH, WIIIDESCREEN! :timebomb:

I rather enjoy the ability to have 2 documents open side by side in Word, and using Aero snap in Windows 7 is awesome.

I stick with 4:3 CRTs for cabs but for any other use you couldn't pay me to go back to them.


I agree, I can stretch an excel spreadsheet over two widescreen monitors, that's awesome.  Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if the monitors were 25 inches wide and 25 inches high.  A solid wall of monitor.  However it comes back to the problem of neck and eye strain...widescreen lets you keep your eyes at a good level, while still having lots of real estate.  I even put a 23" lcd into a cab, and the thing turned out absolutely killer, even for upright games like pacman (although it is awesome for metal slug!)  Plus I don't have to use my leet karate skills to move the 10,000lb cabinet when I'm done.
Screw CRT's.  I'm hoping they get screens down to 1mm thick and 1/2 an ounce in weight.  If the damn things would roll into a tube, even better :)








*note I have no leet karate skillz.
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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2010, 01:16:41 pm »
A lot of people do that at my work. Nearly every one of them are itching to get widescreens for that reason. I think I'm the only one that specifically asks for a traditional 4:3 ratio or something close to it. I think they assigned me dual 5:4 instead. Why, you might ask?

Because I'm not ---smurfing--- blind and run my LCD monitors at their native resolutions. I can pack as much data real estate in a 4:3 monitor at the higher resolution than some who puts up with that blurry ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- at a lower non-native resolution on the wide screen. Do the math on total real estate on  25" 4:3 vs a 25" 16:9.

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2010, 01:47:58 pm »
I agree, I can stretch an excel spreadsheet over two widescreen monitors, that's awesome. 

Yeah, but you can't have two separate instances of Excel running*.  Drives me bonkers.  You can do it with other Office stuff.

* - I'd love to be proven wrong on this.  Please please please.

I do it all the time - what version of Excel are you using?  I have 2 seperate instances of Excel 2010 running right now, and at work I do it with Excel 2007 :dunno

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2010, 01:49:56 pm »
Oh, and for the record, I hope 4:3 arcade CRTs are available for a long while.  I agree with Zakk that LCDs are much more convenient on some ways, but nothing beats the glow of an arcade CRT.

For computer usage I'm not a huge fan of widescreen monitors - give me a pair of matched 19-22" 4:3 LCD screens side by side and I'm happy.  I MUCH prefer that to a single wide monitor, or even a pair of wide monitors.

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2010, 02:01:21 pm »
I agree, I can stretch an excel spreadsheet over two widescreen monitors, that's awesome. 

Yeah, but you can't have two separate instances of Excel running*.  Drives me bonkers.  You can do it with other Office stuff.

* - I'd love to be proven wrong on this.  Please please please.

I do it all the time - what version of Excel are you using?  I have 2 seperate instances of Excel 2010 running right now, and at work I do it with Excel 2007 :dunno

I can run multiple instances with my excel, but I can't have them intact off of each other with formulas. I can stretch 1 instance of excel across both screens though, and have two windowed spreadsheets at the same time under the same instance...

And Windows 7 Aero snap blows. I am cussing it out every time it reconfigures my windows size on me because I dragged it too far to the side.  :angry:

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2010, 02:26:38 pm »

I can run multiple instances with my excel, but I can't have them intact off of each other with formulas. I can stretch 1 instance of excel across both screens though, and have two windowed spreadsheets at the same time under the same instance...


Yeah - you either get 2 separate independent instances (no function / cell references), or you have multiple worksheets in the same instance but they have to live in a shared 'window'

sometimes I WANT my functions to be sandboxed though.  I'm often working from an internal spreadsheet and porting the data over to a customer facing one - I want to remove all references to internal stuff and just paste in data.  Having them in separate instances ensures that when I drop data in, it will be the values only and no references.

I don't use Win7 on my work computer, but I like it on my computer at home. 

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2010, 02:58:49 pm »
Yeah, I only use windows 7 at home, and my monitor is way to small to make use of the snap feature. I might like it if I had a big enough monitor at home.

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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2010, 03:18:21 pm »
I agree, I can stretch an excel spreadsheet over two widescreen monitors, that's awesome. 

Yeah, but you can't have two separate instances of Excel running*.  Drives me bonkers.  You can do it with other Office stuff.

* - I'd love to be proven wrong on this.  Please please please.

I do it all the time - what version of Excel are you using?  I have 2 seperate instances of Excel 2010 running right now, and at work I do it with Excel 2007 :dunno

I just opened 5 instances of excel 2010.  Yep, no problem whatsoever.  I thought it might open another window within excel, but nope, whole new instance. 
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Re: No more CRT Arcade monitors? :(
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2010, 03:20:02 pm »
So often I come across someone's office where they have a nice 22" 1680x1050 monitor and they're running it 1024x768  :angry: