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the state of mame

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Haze:


--- Quote from: ark_ader on January 16, 2011, 12:44:37 pm ---Exactly why the thread got locked on the Mameworld forum.  Criticism is not welcomed.  Mameworld like some hypocritical exclusive fan club, where only the devs have the right of way.  This board has no pretense, so our views are not silenced, so please do not think we are smacking you guys.  We thank you very much for your efforts, but it is the effort that is important as is the direction.

--- End quote ---

BS, At least as far as devs are concerned.  I'm not even allowed to post there, or be mentioned there.  That said, their mods are pretty pathetic and will stick up for the regulars whatever.



--- Quote from: ark_ader on January 16, 2011, 12:44:37 pm ---The Mamedevs are coding it for themselves to appear as rock stars to the community, other than dedicated individuals with a goal to archive arcade games- that is simple to see.

--- End quote ---

BS, If that were the case, would we be sticking around, working on drivers for Mahjong games etc?


--- Quote from: ark_ader on January 16, 2011, 12:44:37 pm ---Do these arcade games have native D3D? No. Why start modifying their behavior when it is obvious you have to stick with what you have to work with based on that machine. Nobody has asked you to do this have they?  Who?  The kiddies?

--- End quote ---

More BS, It's the current expected Windows presentation interface.  Ddraw is deprecated, D3D is the expected way to present applications, even 2D ones.

At this point you're sounding clueless.  We're hardly going to turn around to Microsoft and say 'We don't want to use D3D, please add something else'


--- Quote from: ark_ader on January 16, 2011, 12:44:37 pm ---I concur about the DOS platform.  But you can contain yourselves much better if you pick on a Linux distribution that provides the resources, and let the user worry about trying to get it to work.  Besides its the side effect to get the games to work anyway right?

--- End quote ---

Stop trying to tell the developers what platform they should be using?

There are other projects I would have liked to contribute for, but requiring Linux makes it near impossible, dependency issues, compiler issues, and just trying to get the damn thing working properly is a nightmare.  MAME is plug-and-play-easy even for developers.  You have Windows, you download the compile package, you download the source, you compile.  It works.  That's 99% of the people who are going to contribute sorted.


--- Quote from: ark_ader on January 16, 2011, 12:44:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: Derrick Renaud on January 16, 2011, 09:45:38 am ---Whhaaaa, why can't I run the newest Acrobat Reader; Office; Adobe Audition; Windows; Leisure Suit Larry; MAME; etc on my old P2.  I can't believe you people are serious.  For all of them you are free to use older versions that worked on that hardware.  To demand that the latest version work on something that is barely fast enough to play MP3s is insane.  You have been told that this is a hobby.  Would you prefer 95% of our hobby time be spent maintaining old versions?

You have been told ad nauseum that Donkey Kong now uses a discrete simulation that generates the waveforms in real time based on the electrical circuit.  This replaces the old inaccurate samples.  So yes it is slower.  Oh well, it still runs 13 times faster then the real thing on my obsolete Core 2.

You have been told you are free to maintain old versions yourself, but won't because you are too lazy; can't bother to learn programming; not insane enough to bother; etc.  Instead there are the continual demands that your needs are more important then the needs of those that actually do the code.  If you want your needs to be that important, step up and do/maintain the code yourself.

Haze, here is no hope.

For the undemanding people, sorry for all the ranting.  For the demanding people, I demand that you make me an arcade machine in your spare time and drive it to my house.

I think I need to leave these forums so I can return to sanity.

Take care

--- End quote ---

That attitude is because you know exactly what the problem is, but instead of finding ways to resolve it - you run away.  Probably because you know I am going about this discussion in a more forward way than you are used to, or like my above suggestion that this point would not have been raised in Mameworld as it would have been silenced.  Deal with it.  You want me to make you an arcade machine with a quad core 12gb  64bit OS and a 22" LCD display to play Donkey Kong, instead of a CRT,mainboard, controls, some wood and a PSU?  That is the same argument that Haze is suggesting.

Now we are getting to the crux of the issue.  Not the 720 hacks, or the dearth of programming.  It is the ideals of the coders that is in question to add all this bloat that should not be there.

Actually I have the latest Adobe Reader, Office 2003, and a crap load of games running happily on a P2, including Mame .32.  The fact that it still runs in XP after all these years at the same speed is not of some amazement, as it just works and does what it says on side of the tin.  I'm not the only one here with this issue.  Why should we have to upgrade to a enterprise server capable PC play to something that is 30 years old?  :dunno

I would like to see the classics run at full fps in the next build of Mame on the P3, if you guys wouldn't mind.  ::)  

Think of it as a challenge that is within your grasp.   :banghead:

--- End quote ---

The REASON you get hostile replies is because you ask for them, making statements such as the ones you did above.  Groundless, insulting statements towards the developers.  The team WILL give as good as they get.

The dev team will not be bloating the code or stripping out accuracy in order for it to run on an ancient P3.  You're failing to understand the reasons it no longer does, or purposely choosing to overlook them.

The Vivanono emulator was a fast 'emulator' for Ridge Racer, but in reality, it wasn't much of an emulator at all..  They REWROTE the entire physics engine and sound system of the game in their own code to avoid the CPU cost of emulating it.  At that point it stops even being an emulator yet it's another thing people compare MAME to.  UltraHLE ran N64 games quickly for similar reasons, they looked for common bits of code and replaced them all with native calls.  Old arcade emulators such as Callus (or Nesticle / Genecyst from the same people) used tons of self-modifying x86 assembly code for their emulators.  It was fast, but it wasn't portable, you probably wouldn't get away with doing it on a modern OS, and if you did it would probably set the alarmbells ringing on every bit of AV software out there.  

The more streamlined, more accurate, LESS bloated, and less hacky an emulator gets, the slower it becomes.  When your beloved .3x or whatever builds were released people were making the same complaints, that it was too slow compared to everything else out there that ran on a 486, or P1 yet now you talk about them as if they were gods gift to emulation....  The MAME philosophy hasn't changed, MAME has survived, MAME stayed ahead of the game by always offering a cleaner, easier development environment to developers than any other projects, as a result, it was always slower.



ark_ader:

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saint:

For what it's worth since it seems to be coming up -- as long as folks follow the rules of civility (yeah, that's getting bent a bit), I'm not interested in stifling dissenting discussion. Please remember though there are thousands of other threads on the forums, and anyone's stated points are their own stated points, not necessarily reflective of the approximately 85,000 monthly visitors to the forums. It distresses me to think that someone would consider these threads the totality of the forums and leave because of them.

My 2 bits.

--- saint


ark_ader:

.

shateredsoul:


--- Quote from: ark_ader on January 16, 2011, 03:18:23 pm ---That is the question.

A comment is made by the posters point of view.

It doesn't reflect disrespect.

Just because you have an opinion.

--- End quote ---

It's funny that people keep saying that they're not trying to violate the civility rules for the forum, yet these "critiques" are made in a very aggressive and sometimes condescending manner. For example, "instead of finding ways to resolve it - you run away.  Probably because you know I am going about this discussion in a more forward way than you are used to". How could you expect a positive response to a post that contains that line?

It's like watching a bunch of monkeys throw crap at each other.

I did enjoy reading the parts where the actual mame process was discussed, and related to that.. just to be clear. Is the focus of MAME right now to go back to the code and make changes for more accurate emulations of games that are already working?

Haze, as a mame dev, do you decide which game you work on? or are there other influences that dictate what games you work on? (i.e. donators, other mame devs, whether you have a buddy to help you on emulating a specific pcb).

Also, I know you've mentioned that you learned to work on the mame code by just messing around and reading through it, but did you have experience with coding before then?

How do you find time to work on this? I'm playing a very minor role in making scummvm videos and I'm having a hard time balancing that, time with the wifey, and school. Unfort. the scummvm videos are not being made as quickly as they should be because of that (but life comes first for me at least).






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